Pen vs Lloyds TSB **TOTALLY & UTTERLY WON!**

[elsinore]

You're not giving up Pen, it's not allowed!!

 

Sounds like you had a raw deal from the court system today (not the first time, eh?)

 

But, at least your case is still in court and the judge has given you the opportunity to prepare another witness statement. You'll get pleny of help with that from the gang and I expect you will have plenty of time to prepare it.

 

Keep positive

Els

[Lastlaugh]

Hi Pen,

Keep fighting I think you are an inspiration! I too have a case coming up in the next two weeks relating more to maladministration and negligence! Sometimes I lose the faith but people on here soon make me bounce back. My case has been going on for two years, the bank took seven months to disclose information despite being ordered by the court. The banks make a mockery of the system and people like you have the guts to stand up to them. Keep smiling and keep positive! You have taken one huge step for CAGKIND!

[Pen]

Hi Elsinore and lastlaugh, such lovely comments from both of you, thank you, and thank you for your kind offer Elisnore you are such a love,

 

I really don't know where I am going with it now. To begin with it all sounded so straight forward, I issue court proceedings for the return of my information, seems simple enough.

 

Then the Disposal Hearing, sounded a bit daunting but once I got my head around the fact that judgement had been awarded and all I was going to court for was to listen to the judges give directions, the fact that they were not going to ask me too many questions as it had all been decided except for the award and informing the banks that they had to comply. I thought ok, I'm sure I can manage that. know somehow i have lost control of it and it has all gotten out of hand. I just do not know what I am now meant to be doing, for instance. if as the judge Say's, I have to estimate all my chargers going back 29yrs based on just one claim of £6,800 in chargers for 5 yrs can you imagine how much that would work out at with just 8% interest. Then how would I work out a £3,000 PEP investment in 1995 would be worth now, even if it was still in existence, that's the problem I don;t know what happened to it. Still leaving the PEP out of it and just taking the chargers the judge would then have to look at changing the tract to possible multi tract yes/no then would I be liable for costs. or would it still remain that my claim is heard in the small claims track regardless of what the estimated losses are.

 

Then come the final hearing, LTSB suddenly realise that they have neglected this case, can they then start some kind of appeal so that the final hearing will no longer be the final hearing.

 

See what I mean, something that was quite straight forward has snowballed and in all honesty I really don't think I have the skills anymore to follow it through if it is going to snowball out of just a ordanary DP claim into a multi claim. They way this claim is progressing is that a possibility do you think or i'm I worrying needlesly.

[elsinore]

Another PM heading your way, Pen.

 

Els

[remus]

Pen lovey, easy for us to say don't give up, but don't give up:p

where has your pep gone? money that you entrusted LTSB to invest for you.

I'd be fuming that they are getting away with us, and treating you with such contempt to not even bother turning up at court.

Show them you mean business (I'm sure with lots of help:) and don't forget the fund that has been set up;) ).

You've got this far, did you ever imagine you would be telling a judge what needs to be done?!

You go girl, we are all routing for you:D

God bless

[darling1]

Hi Pen. If you read your frist comments yesterday after the hearing - you really seem to understand what was required for you..............it seems as the day has gone on you have gotten very down about it all.

As long as it is not costing you any money and your health can take it - keep plodding on in the same direction! I know that its easy for me to sit here miles away and give you advise/ but you really are an inspiration. How you have come this far I don't know. But you have....I have the photos to proove it!!

So keep going girl and get all the advice from the mods that you can...

Is there any one out there that can look at this complication and give you extra advice??

These complications were bound to happen sooner or later with the courts getting fed up with the Cagers - sadly its happening to you keep going and get all the help you can

 

SOMEONE, HELP PEN PLEASE!!!!

 

Darling1 xxxxxxxx:razz:

[Pondfish]

Hi Pen,

 

Haven't posted on your thread for a while as you have been looked after by much more knowledgable people then me.

 

Sorry your latest court case was a bit of a let down, but nothing has really changed has it? As Elsinore says your case is still in court, and with a little more help i'm sure the issues your worried about can be resolved.

 

Lloyds didn't turn up, so likelyhood is that they won't appear for a full hearing either.

 

I think you are on the verge of getting your award, please don't give it up now!

 

Pondy

[Josie8]

..........................

Edited January 21, 2009 by Josie8

[maxine989]

Oh pen... what a let down your hearing was for you.

 

Think of it as another step taken, another hurdle down... just keep going!! Please don't give up.

 

You have the help and support of some of the most knowledgable and head strong folks on here. You will not have to battle through it alone.

 

I know the courts seem to be getting fed up with claims against the banks (whether it be for non-compliance or the claiming of charges levied)... but it shouldn't be us who have to back down. It is the banks who are abusing the court system and wasting resources. Eventually the courts, judges and all others invovled will have to make a stand against the banks who are abusing the system... maybe one day it will all be a lot more straight forward, with less opportunities for the banks to mess people around and waste everyones time.

 

In the meantime, stick with it and keep going... like everyone else has said, you have come this far and you have learned so much. It might all seem confusing and daunting... but imagine the cash you might get at the end of it... cash that can make life easier for you and for the rest of your family.

 

I suppose you are now waiting for a new date for the next/final hearing regarding TSB's non-compliance. Hopefully you wont be kept waiting too long and while you wait you can work with all the gang to get a new witness statement written up.

 

Hope you are not feeling too blue about it... think of it as a challenge and let the challenge empower you!!!

 

Take care,

Max x

[photoman]

Pen

Just adding my support.

Reading your first post from yesterday sounds like you actually handled matters very well.

Seems you have some good Caggers helping and looking out for you.

Take a breather, step back for a day or two, then plunge back in and just don't let them get away with their contempt and disregard for both the judicial system and their "customers" (or should that read "victims") !!

 

PM

[Pen]

Hi Gang, thanks for all the support, it's really reassuring to know that you are all still there hanging in with me, sorry i have not replied for a while, it does get depressing at times as I am sure going through it yourselves you will all agree. but yes as usual you are right, as long as I have the support that I am getting off everyone, it would be down right disrespect to just quit as Elisnore so rightly puts it.

 

So, with that being said.

 

I contacted the court yesterday as regards a new hearing date since the judge directed that I should have the next available hearing after 7 days. the Clark had not had the directions sent down to him as yet but!! considering the Judge's directions he thinks the new hearing will be within the next 14 day's. well see

 

The directions hearing is a blooming nuisance, there is very little information regarding them for me to go on so it is quite new territory,

!!! what am I saying all this is new territory:D but if anyone has any thoughts please post on here.

 

Also since I still have the CI hearing to deal with I have been reading a lot of threads lately regarding the wayforward in relation to my CI claim, as you all know it has been amalgamated with my single claim on the 18th July. ( some members think it's a bad idea to have claims amalgamated but I am unsure why, any ideas on why this is?

 

My POC which was submitted in Dec, relates to CI as being R & M but the new way of thinking now seems to be around the banks enrichment and duty of care. See part of Glenns POC below.

 

b) The charges debited to the Accounts are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant ; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimants; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

c) The Claimants find the charges listed in the Defendant’s statements are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. Regardless of the wording of automated letters sent to the Claimants, these charges constitute a “penalty charge” as the amounts bear no relation to the actual costs incurred by the Defendant. Such penalty charges are legally unenforceable, even if a clause exists in the Terms and Conditions that authorizes such a charge

PM, I have noticed you also have a similar POC for your CI claim. Therefore do I need to amend my POC and pay the £35.00 fee before sending off my second witness statement or do I leave my POC as it is and just cover these new points in my statement. I want to make sure I have as many xs crossed before the hearing.

 

Thanks everyone, how I managed to get all my claims in court at the same time was not intentional but since they are, i just have to deal with them, me thinks!. but a piece of advice for anyone considering it, Don't it's not a good move :eek: .

 

Pen

[photoman]

Pen,

 

With regards what to expect at your directions hearing, I gather both Elsinore and GaryH are experienced at them, and could give you a bit of a lowdown.

Gary even has a thread started up on it, which gives you some ideas.

You may have already seen it?

Otherwise, here it is.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/guidance-notes/64911-got-court-date-guide.html

 

Regards whether or not to submit an amendment. I am no expert on this, as I've not had to, but again GaryH is very good on this area.

He will be able to tell you:

1/Whether or not you are able to at this stage, and how much delay it would cause.

2/Whether it would be necessary, or if you could cover all things in your witness statement?

 

Personally, I suppose it depends really on what else was in your POC.

The mods onsite are convinced that any claim for Ci based purely on M&R will fail, and there have also been court cases that have backed up this view.

So, if your POC didn't already contain any alternative arguments, then it may be difficult, and you may not even be allowed, to introduce them now without an amendment.

As I say, these are just my own views, If unsure what to do, ask around.

[GaryH]

Hi Pen,

 

The only way to go to have any realistic chance of getting compound interest IMHO is the breach of trust route. Personally I can't see how Glenn's POC represents anything other than an argument for contractual mutuality under the UTCCR, perhaps not in so many words, but its still asking the court to imply a term on the basis of "fairness" or "mutuality" or whatever.

 

The court cannot imply a term on that basis and this was upheld and reinforced in the recent Halliday v HBoS case. Heres a summary of the judgement;

 

Halliday v HBoS #1

Halliday v HBoS #2

 

You need to argue a breach of trust and try to get compound interest in equity. I don't actually think you need to amend your POC either, just use your witness statement. Lloyds never even addressed the interest claim in their defence, so IMHO they cannot really object, plus the small claims track has more relaxed rules on that sort of thing.

 

When does the statement have to be submitted by again?

[Pen]

if your POC didn't already contain any alternative arguments, then it may be difficult, and you may not even be allowed, to introduce them now without an amendment.

As I say, these are just my own views, If unsure what to do, ask around.

Hi PM,

That's why I have rasied this issue. I'm awear a precedent has been set in relation to CI and MR so to have any success at all I have to somehow be able to put this new argument forward.

I am hoping I can just include it in my WS at this stage. My POC was submitted in Dec before this new wave of thinking came about.

My witness statement needs to be in court on the 4th. I have PMed gary for advice only I know he is really busy at the moment with all that Hull stuff so it may be too late for him to help.

 

I have read most of the posts on the thread you refered too but have never come across disposal hearings on it only directions hearing which are not the same. I think what i want to know is not the process but more of what has been the outcome of any member who has attended one. have they got what they wanted, was a award for damagers made , is there a judgement on site that I can read, that sort of thing

 

Els is a star and is helping me with the disposal hearing.

 

PM thanks for the click

[Pen]

Hi Gary crossed posts hmmm sorry. it needs to be submited on the 4th July 14 days before the hearing which is the 18th. I am going to PM you I hope you don't mind.

[GaryH]

No worries - I posted here before I saw your PM from last night actually. I've just replied to it.

[Pen]

all these crossed posts this morning, when I should be doing loads of house work, ok hubbies got loads of housework, but someone has to tell him what to do:D

 

Got your PM, Thanks Gary, that's 2 stars on this site. wonderful

[Pen]

Hi All,

2nd Witness Statement and spreedsheets for final hearing are all done and dusted ready for posting tomorrow.

 

I am so glad they have paid the first claim, otherwise this claim would have been huge now that the 2 claims have been amalgamated

 

Thanks Gary and Els, xxx Pen

[darling1]

well done Pen - sounds like you have it under control AGAIN....I PMd you a little while ago - hope you got it and all is well !!

Darling1

[Pen]

Prove at lest, It's Sue that does all the talking hence the need for more a BIGGER mail box. :D sorry Sue, yes, got it. I will PM you tonight

 

xx

[Pen]

I have not received the court bundle from SCM, I should have had one for my single claim aand a WS form my joint claim, should I send a letter to the courts re non compliance

[daisy_bumbleroot]

Hi Pen - DBR popping in just to see how you are and just to let you know your old support is still around *hugs*

[Pen]

Thanks Daisy, it's really comforting to know, the members are still interested as this claim seems to have gone on forever thank you:)

As to my last post. I received a letter in the post this morning from the courts which states

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT;

 

1) This claim is consolidated with 7LV.......... and listed for further hearing with that claim on the 18th July 2007 at 11.30

2) The claimant shall file a witness statement explaining her claim for interest at 29% by the 4th July 2007 (Done)

3) Defendant shall file and serve all witness statements on which it relies on by the 4th July. Dated 23 May 2007.

 

it does not mention how long the hearing will take.

 

So I called the courts this afternoon. Lloyd's have filed a witness statement for the CI claim ( They have not sent me a copy) but! no court bundle or witness statement for the the single claim, should i send the court a letter of non compliance and should I also write informing the court that I have not had a copy of their witness statement.

 

Also I asked about the disposal hearing and was informed that the date for the final hearing is the 26th July at 2.30 a District Judge will be presiding over it. whilst I was talking to the court assistant I asked her about the pre-lim disposal hearing. She said she has never heard of one of them before. I think the judge just made that one up as she definitely did not know what to do with the case.

 

18th it is then.

[Pen]

Hi recieved a witness staement from SC7M this morning, no surprises.

[christinajanep]

wow 31 pages, its like reading a mini novel:D