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NIP for crossing train level crossing **FPN of £50 and no points**


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  • 4 months later...

quick question I have for anyone reading this before my case today:

 

Railway byelaw 14 is the following:

"for regulating the use and working of, and travel on or by means of, railway assets, the maintenance of order on railway

assets and the conduct of all persons while on railway assets (the “Byelaws”)."

Taken from this link: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/4202/railway-byelaws.pdf

 

What validity does the fact that the road is classed as a public highway, therefore railway byelaws are not valid here?

Network rail confirms crossing is public highway.

 

Not a private road “private road or path” means any length of road or path to which the public does not have access.

Link: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/42/section/56

 

Or does clutching at straws come to mind?

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It has taken me a few days to get my thoughts around on how to update this thread, but finally think I have a clear idea of everything.

 

I arrived in court, train driver was called as witness and I could tell how he had been coached on certian phrases to make me sound bad. The magistrates were clearly on his side from the beginning. He used words such as "sped off down the road after crossing the tracks" etc. When it was my chance to question him about his statement about the signs, I got nowhere. at one stage when I mentioned the sign was for "slow, large vehicles" he replied "in his eyes anything larger than a mini is a large vehicle!" As if.

 

I had this feeling the whole time the magistrates had already made up their mind before I even had a chance to tell my side of the story.

 

The PC involved in the original interview and who went to the scene to take his photos was also questioned.

 

CPS questioned me about the day, and I truthfully told him what I interpreted the signs to mean, and backed up the interpretation with what the law actually states about these signs. He accused me of driving over the tracks and then trying to get out of it by researching the meaning of the signs after the fact, and that I could not have missed the big red stop sign next to the gate.

 

After I had summed up everything, I was questioned by magistrates what a guilty verdict would mean to me, I explained about my citizenship application being denied and how this would financially be more of a punishment to me than the £1000 maximum fine this sign stated as maximum fine allowed.

 

Before the magistrates left the courtroom, the CPS prosecutor asked the magistrates if they could leave as he wanted to discuss something with BT police, the clerk of the court and myself. Magistrates left.

 

Prosecutor suddenly then turns to PC and clerk of the court and asks them if there was a way I could be charged under the original NIP of section 36 ignoring sign, which would then mean taken out of court and de-criminilised and maximum FPN of £60 and 3 points. Clerk and Bt police were happy to try and do this. Couple of phone calls were made, BT police agreed to have this perhaps transferred to Highway police.

 

Clerk of court scheduled an administrative hearing for her court next week to have this removed from the schedule (I think that was the term), prosecutor said I need not attend and that he will organise that I attend my local police station in the next week or so to receive my FPN and £60 fine.

 

Magistrates were called in and informed that they did not need to deliberate any further on this case and that an alternative method was going to be followed. Magistrates agreed and left.

 

I was left reeling. I had lost, but ultimately still a win for me in a weird sort of way.

 

It was really surreal afterwards as well, BT police constable was so friendly afterwards, shook hands and said "good luck, I felt so bad about this case"

Prosecutor shook hands and said "I'll be in contact soon. Here's my office number if you need anything"

 

I have a clean license - 3 points and £60 not a massive deal to me.

More importantly - clean criminal record.

 

Thank you all for your advice, support and thoughts. I will update again once everything is done.

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Wow! What an outcome! Brilliant I'm chuffed for you, took a while but I think this was the best outcome overall.

 

Well done..... :thumb:

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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It has taken me a few days to get my thoughts around on how to update this thread, but finally think I have a clear idea of everything.

 

I arrived in court, train driver was called as witness and I could tell how he had been coached on certian phrases to make me sound bad. The magistrates were clearly on his side from the beginning. He used words such as "sped off down the road after crossing the tracks" etc. When it was my chance to question him about his statement about the signs, I got nowhere. at one stage when I mentioned the sign was for "slow, large vehicles" he replied "in his eyes anything larger than a mini is a large vehicle!" As if.

 

I had this feeling the whole time the magistrates had already made up their mind before I even had a chance to tell my side of the story.

 

The PC involved in the original interview and who went to the scene to take his photos was also questioned.

 

CPS questioned me about the day, and I truthfully told him what I interpreted the signs to mean, and backed up the interpretation with what the law actually states about these signs. He accused me of driving over the tracks and then trying to get out of it by researching the meaning of the signs after the fact, and that I could not have missed the big red stop sign next to the gate.

 

After I had summed up everything, I was questioned by magistrates what a guilty verdict would mean to me, I explained about my citizenship application being denied and how this would financially be more of a punishment to me than the £1000 maximum fine this sign stated as maximum fine allowed.

 

Before the magistrates left the courtroom, the CPS prosecutor asked the magistrates if they could leave as he wanted to discuss something with BT police, the clerk of the court and myself. Magistrates left.

 

Prosecutor suddenly then turns to PC and clerk of the court and asks them if there was a way I could be charged under the original NIP of section 36 ignoring sign, which would then mean taken out of court and de-criminilised and maximum FPN of £60 and 3 points. Clerk and Bt police were happy to try and do this. Couple of phone calls were made, BT police agreed to have this perhaps transferred to Highway police.

 

Clerk of court scheduled an administrative hearing for her court next week to have this removed from the schedule (I think that was the term), prosecutor said I need not attend and that he will organise that I attend my local police station in the next week or so to receive my FPN and £60 fine.

 

Magistrates were called in and informed that they did not need to deliberate any further on this case and that an alternative method was going to be followed. Magistrates agreed and left.

 

I was left reeling. I had lost, but ultimately still a win for me in a weird sort of way.

 

It was really surreal afterwards as well, BT police constable was so friendly afterwards, shook hands and said "good luck, I felt so bad about this case"

Prosecutor shook hands and said "I'll be in contact soon. Here's my office number if you need anything"

 

I have a clean license - 3 points and £60 not a massive deal to me.

More importantly - clean criminal record.

 

Thank you all for your advice, support and thoughts. I will update again once everything is done.

 

Sounds like a reasonable compromise that fits with your main objective : a lack of impact on your citizenship application (established on the thread late May 2014 as your key objective!)

 

Accepting the points and penalty might be a bitter pill, but none the less worth swallowing? (Given the FPN shouldnt impact your citizenship application - but don't forget to declare it, so that they can choose to ignore it but can't accuse you of trying to conceal it!)

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/406368/Chapter_18_Annex_D_v02.pdf

 

See 3.2

Fixed Penalty Notices, Penalty Charge Notices and Penalty Notices for Disorder are imposed by the Police or other authorised enforcement officers for traffic rule violations, environmental and civil violations. It is a way of the criminal justice system disposing of fairly minor offences without the need for a person to attend court. Receiving one does not form part of a person’s criminal record as there is no admission of guilt.

The decision maker will not consider these unless the person has:

a. failed to pay and there were criminal proceedings as a result; or

b. received numerous fixed penalty notices which would suggest a pattern of behaviour that calls into question their character."

 

So, make sure the FPN gets paid!, that you declare it to your insurers, and try to avoid further FPN's

Declare it in your citizenship application & they should decide it doesn't need to be taken into account.

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I'm glad that it seems to have worked out for you. I think, I would have asked the Mags to rule on the case there and then as it seemed they were losing and have used a get out of jail card by getting you on the lesser offense.

 

I think I would be really annoyed with how it has gone for you!

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I'm glad that it seems to have worked out for you. I think, I would have asked the Mags to rule on the case there and then as it seemed they were losing and have used a get out of jail card by getting you on the lesser offense.

 

I think I would be really annoyed with how it has gone for you!

 

That still leaves the risk the Magistrates convict, and the resultant impact on a citizenship application.

 

The FPN is a bitter pill, but bearing in mind the OP's stated priorities, may be the lesser of evils?

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That still leaves the risk the Magistrates convict, and the resultant impact on a citizenship application.

 

The FPN is a bitter pill, but bearing in mind the OP's stated priorities, may be the lesser of evils?

 

Oh I totally agree Bazza, it's that small part of me that thinks they were loosing and knew it. I'm glad the OP will get what he wants, but probably not what he deserved ( In a good way ;P )

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