Pip assessment done after long wait. Pip awarded,Claim reviewed Lost most award !

[2ltr16valve]

Hi all

 

I have chased up my pip claim today and I am told by atos that they have me on a waiting list for a home visit. I guess due to my breathing condition.

 

What can I expect from this visit ?

What are they looking for ?

 

The only time I've dealt with atos before is for a wca, which I am told this is completely different according to atos.

 

I have told them I am likely going to record the assessment due to previous experiences with them.

 

Thx

[reallymadwoman]

So far as I know, very few people have actually had PIP assessments yet and we've had next to no reports on here of what actually happens. I've heard there are huge waiting lists for assessments at their centres so suspect you may have to wait quite a lot longer for a home visit.

 

I thought someone had posted the handbook that ATOS assessors use for PIP but I can't find it now. I'll keep looking, but it might come up if you search online. That would give you some idea of what might happen. Have you looked at the criteria for PIP and made a reasonable judgement about where you might score points? If you have some evidence to back that up (even your WCA report would help!) then you should think about having it available for the doctor - you will need two copies obviously as they won't be able to copy it for you and you don't want them taking originals away.

 

Whilst the criteria for PIP are different from ESA, I'd have thought the actual assessment is likely to be very similar - lots of seemingly random questions about shopping and pets from which they make all sorts of not necessarily accurate assumptions about what you can or can't do.

 

Regarding recording, unlike ESA there are no arrangements for PIP assessments to be recorded. Assuming they use the same criteria as ESA, if you want to record yourself you have to have a machine which can produce two copies simultaneously on to either tape or CD - they won't let you record with anything else and if you do it covertly and are discovered they're likely to stop the assessment.

[**Margaret**]

:2ltr16valve:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers

 

Audio recording, or lack of, it at pages 37 - 39.

 

Criteria for an award begin on page 92. Claimants need 8 points for a standard component and 12 points for an enhanced component.

 

A significant omission from the handbook is that claimants have the right (under human rights legislation) for someone to take notes of everything said during an assessment. Should you want to use the notes (or a transcript of a covertly recorded assessment) at a subsequent tribunal, admissibility is at the discretion of the judge. More appellants than not find their notes/transcript accepted.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

[2ltr16valve]

Ty Margaret.

 

I can see how some descriptors apply for potentially 12+ points. What that depends on tho is the assesses acceptance of how my breathing (copd/brittle asthma) has an affect on those descriptors.

Eg. Cooking a meal. I can cook, but when I'm ill which is more often than not I could not stand in the hot kitchen as would cause my airways to spasm and close down.

When this happens there isn't time to wait for an ambulance I need treatment ASAP. So would cause a life threatening problem.

 

The same circumstances apply to other items as well. Walking is very hard due to shortness of breath. As is talking in sentences.

I use a nebuliser every 4 hours (6 when I'm not so bad)

[**Margaret**]

:2ltr16valve:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/pip-assessment-criteria

 

Which talks about reliability, risks, etcetera. And it's a bit more user friendly than the handbook.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

[2ltr16valve]

I am reading conflicting info about pip that it's harder to qualify than the previous dla ?

 

Thank you for your help

[reallymadwoman]

I am reading conflicting info about pip that it's harder to qualify than the previous dla ?

 

Thank you for your help

 

So far as I know, there haven't been enough claims decided to make any general statements about PIP yet, other than the mobility criteria are much more restrictive.

[HelloDarkWorld]

Good luck. I've been waiting for my PIP to be assessed for 7 months now. I've been on ESA for a year now and not been placed into any group. Still receiving £71.70 out of which I still pay rent to Westminster Council (around £15), so I have to live on £55.

 

All I'm saying, if it's Atos doing your assessment you might be better off playing a flute outside your local Marks & Spensers with a hat out for coin collection.

[avalon60]

I had to go for a PIP assessment yesterday, and my wife came with me. I was seen by a nurse who asked me some basic questions about how I got there, and how did I manage the journey etc. Then it was onto questions which I had already answered in the claim form, and told the nurse that, but she wanted 'to get a feel' of me being there etc.

I gather it will be a while before I hear anything now, so I was just wondering what happens about any money being paid.

[2ltr16valve]

Hi again all

 

I have just been placed Into the support group for ESA. Will this be of any relevance to pip with regards to my assessment ? As more proof of my disability maybe ?

My local council are sending me a form for a blue badge for now, for up to 3 years but say I must have pip in place come renewal. So here's to hoping.

 

Any ideas how I get a breathing problem across to them as it clearly can't be seen unless I don't take my meds and end up with either full blown phnumonia or severe chest infection.

My condition really does vary a lot day to day, one day I can breathe pretty freely an the next I will be coughing and wheezing like a cat with a fur ball.

Tia

[RaeUK]

It won't do any harm as it is another piece of evidence regarding your condition. Funnily enough, I did it the other way round. I used my DLA award and GP letter requested by DLA as part of my ESA supporting evidence.

Regarding your breathing, I can't remember what your ailment is, if indeed you mentioned it at some point. I use copies of my annual Spirometry report which have built up to show a year on year deterioration of lung efficiency, prescription copy showing medication, GP supporting letter, and any relevant information from online.

[**Margaret**]

:2ltr16valve:

 

Usual mantra's that employment n support and personal independence are different benefits for different purposes. While that's true for some claimants, there's an overlap between some of the descriptors for others. And one of the overlaps is compromised mobility/walking cos of impaired lung function.

 

The ESA85/85A report of your work capability assessment should be available for the cost of a phone call to the number on your award letter. If you don't receive it within a few days, repeat your request in writing via recorded delivery. Read, study, and if it supports your inability to cope with some of the descriptors for personal independence, submit a copy with the rest of your medical evidence. (Disability n Carers don't always talk to Jobcentreplus, or vice versa.)

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

[2ltr16valve]

:2ltr16valve:

 

Usual mantra's that employment n support and personal independence are different benefits for different purposes. While that's true for some claimants ,there's an overlap between some of the descriptors for others. And one of the overlaps is compromised mobility/walking cos of impaired lung function.

 

The ESA85/85A report of your work capability assessment should be available for the cost of a phone call to the number on your award letter. If you don't receive it within a few days, repeat your request in writing via recorded delivery. Read, study, and if it supports your inability to cope with some of the descriptors for personal independence, submit a copy with the rest of your medical evidence. (Disability n Carers don't always talk to Jobcentreplus, or vice versa.)

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

 

Hi again Margaret.

I did not have an assessment, a DM or atos decided without seeing me to award SG.

I have sent a sar to Dwp with regards to a 11yr old lover payment they are now taking from my award so hopefully the report should come back with that.

What I am unsure about is what I say to the assessor with regards to my condition and how I explain it's effects on me as it varies a lot day to day.

 

 

 

Rae. My condition is described as brittle asthma/COPD. as I don't respond to asthma medicines alone. I have to use medicines to treat copd for relief. I also can not use pressurised pumps as they cause a coughing episode and ends in airway spasm. So have to use a nebuliser every 4-6 hours daily, down to 2-4 hours when chesty.

[**Margaret**]

:2ltr16valve:

 

ESA50 + Atos scrutiny + determination by a decision maker = an assessment. And we now know you're looking for an ESA85A report. Should be in the response to your subject access if you specified all clerical and computer records for your employment n support claims.

 

To explain the effects of your condition, keep a diary for a few days. Record every instance that you have trouble with one of the descriptors, with details of the help you needed and/or the compromise that had to be made.

 

In the throes of an asthma attack, you needed your partner had to load the nebuliser.

 

Cos too many lunch time shoppers nicked the disabled parking spaces, you and your partner had to return later in the day so you could park within 50 metres of the supermarket entrance where the customer wheelchairs are stored.

 

Compilation of a diary will help you to think about and talk about your care needs and exactly how far you can walk. And a copy can be handed to the assessor to go with his/her report, as supportive evidence for your claim.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

[**Margaret**]

:avalon60:

 

For claimants who already have an award of disability living, it remains in payment for four weeks following the payday, which follows the date of a decision about personal independence. Then for successful applicants, payments of disability living will be replaced by payments for personal independence.

 

For claimants not already in receipt of disability living, successful claims for personal independence are back dated to the date the claim was initially made. Or the end of the three months qualifying period if that's later.

 

Margaret.

[2ltr16valve]

Called today to ask for the esa85a but the lady had never come across that one before so said she would request it for me. So shall wait and see.

Found out award is for 2 years for my Sg esa anyway.

[2ltr16valve]

Got my esa85a today. Says as follows.

 

"Advice - I advise that the client meets support group criteria as they have severe functional disability.

 

Prognosis - I advise that work is unlikely within 2 years.

 

Justification of advise - evidence considered: the esa50, med3, consultant letter and copy of prescription, and reports from (date here 2012) and (date here 2004).

The med3, esa50 and medical evidence suggests the Client cannot mobilise 50 meters repeatedly, within a reasonable timescale and unaided by another person, because of significant discomfort or exhaustion due to asthma with multiple chest infections. This suggests the client has limited capability for work and work-related activity.

Client is under the care of a long term conditions consultant, uses regular home nebulisers and regularly feels breathless due to the condition and recurrent chest infections.

All evidence is fully consistent.

Client would be unable to self propel a manual wheelchair due to breathlessness.

The available evidence suggests improvement is unlikely in the longer term.

-----------------------------------------

 

That's all it says. So I am going to send this to pip to consider as I think a number of their descriptors are covered in that assessment.

 

Opinions ?

 

Ty in advance.

[**Margaret**]

:2ltr16valve:

 

You've nothing to lose by submitting a copy of that ESA85A together with the medical evidence it was based on. States very clearly that you can't walk 50 metres, and why. A work capability assessment doesn't consider whether a claimant can walk 20 metres, so if you're after the enhanced mobility component you need to think about if you can reliably and safely get 20 metres every time you need to.

 

Whether your nebuliser attracts any useful points will depend on any help you need to use it.

 

Apart from terminal illness, I'm not aware of anyone who's escaped an interview for personal independence. Then again, cos of the chaos, I don't know anyone who's got beyond the PIP2 form. Government intent is that most applicants will be assessed in person. Same as it was, once upon a time, for employment n support.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

[2ltr16valve]

Thank you again Margaret.

 

At my worst I can't walk 20M without stopping and being dizzy. When I've not got a "live" infection I could but not more than 50 without stopping due to damage to my lung tissue.

With regards to my nebuliser. When I have a sudden acute attack my partner has to get the meds and load my neb for me as I just couldn't do it. Rest of the time I can but on those occasions I can't.

 

So confusing he different ins and outs they want to know when a disability isn't strictly physical as in a limb ailment etc. You can't see my lungs thus the problem but without good gas exchange nothing else works as it should do.

[avalon60]

I went for a PIP assessment a few weeks ago, and then out of the blue I received a letter saying that they had now all my letters from my specialist and any other paperwork from me, and they would let me know what the decision would be.

[2ltr16valve]

Some more good news. Been Given a Discretionary blue badge by my local authorities mobility department for 3 years on the basis I must have pip next time.

 

Anyone think it's worth sending this information to atos re my pip to support what I've said ?

[2ltr16valve]

Just called Dwp pip who insist atos have to contact me within 12-16 weeks.

Called atos to check to be told they are told they can not quote timescales lol !!!

Arghhh.

I've written to the Dwp with more evidence and asked them to make a decision based on evidence they have. Doubt they will tho.

[2ltr16valve]

Just update.

Sent them a copy of both sides of my blue badge today to just back up and bolster my inability to walk when i have an active infection.

See how that fares with the decision maker along with my esa85a. Doubt will make any difference tho and I will have to wait in the long cue to be assessed.

[2ltr16valve]

Finally got an appointment after my mp got involved. Amazingly letter received 2 days after pm contact lol.

Towards the end of the month.

 

Any tips ? I'm feeling not too bad ATM. Lungs still hurt but not got a current infection. Surely they are going to listen to what I'm saying but write what they are seeing ? Which likely won't be the same. Unless I get an infection between now and then which I don't really want.

[2ltr16valve]

Anyone next week now