Tax and national insurence

[fatbelly 1]

Good afternoon

can anybody help me

in brief my employee informed me that the company i was working for had gone into liquidation just before christmas

after searching for alternative employment to no avail at present. I had no other option but to sign on for jobseekers allowance (i have never had a benefit) since i started work 35 years ago so was a bit green

anyway have my interview at the jobcentre filled in the relevant and signed on

this morning i have received a letter stating that i have not paid enough national insurance

i have a funny feeling my ex employer has not paid my tax or insurance although i have had this deducted

i have a p60 from last year and weekly payslips to the date i was laid off clearly stating the deductions

anybody got any idea where i go from here please ?

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

As your more urgent query seems to be about claiming benefits, I'll move you to that forum and leave you a redirect to follow from this forum.

 

My best, HB

[honeybee13]

I think you can talk to HMRC about deductions not being passed over, I'll have a look for a link.

 

HB

[ericsbrother]

Then get back onto them with copies of your payslips and P60 (dont give them the originals, they have a habit of losing things) and if they still say that you havent paid there is a procedure where you can claim based upon what you have been told via your payslips. Bit like payout when you are hit by an unisured driver. Bad news is it will take them time to manually sort out rather than pressing 1 button on computer keyboard.

[slick132]

Hi Fatbelly, Looking in as asked ...............

 

I have 2 suggestions :-

 

1. Call the number from where the letter came to get some info.

 

2. I would get down to the Jobcentre and ask them to explain the decision. Take your last few payslips, a copy of your P45 and your last 2 P60's with you.

 

It's very unusual for an employer to make deductions and NOT pay them over as required, particularly since the introduction of the "Real Time" PAYE deductions reporting system came in last year.

 

Failure by an employer to pay over any tax or NIC on time, or at all, is taken very seriously by HMRC.

 

 

Can you tell us:-

 

Were you the only employee or were there several, or many.

 

How long had you worked there approx.

 

What did you earn gross each week or month approx.

 

Did your payslips show tax and NIC being deducted each month.

 

[honeybee13]

Thank you for answering the SOS, Slick.

 

HB

[fatbelly 1]

many thanks for your reply HB

[fatbelly 1]

Morning slick

thanks for your reply

i was employed with about 6 other people on a PAYE bases and about 25 on a add-hoc self employed scenario

i have worked there for 5 years leaving after the company went into liquidation in December

my gross earnings weekly was £560.00 pre tax

all my payslips show the tax and nat insurance deductions

 

 

i will be signing on (for what its worth because at the moment i am not getting anything due to my so called lack of national insurance contributions) next Monday will

take my benefit letter with me and ask them to explain?

on receipt of the said letter i phoned the number on it and was told it was a tax matter ? i then phoned the national insurance helpline and gave up as i was on hold on a 0898 number for 25 minutes

many thanks for your help on this slick much obliged i just feel i have been dumped then try to claim for the first time to be told i haven't contributed enough when clearly i thought i had been

to date i haven't received any notification from the national insurance office about any shortfall

 

i have also tried to contact my previous employer but as the company now in liquidation all the contact numbers (surprise surprise) are not available

i do have my P60s

many thanks again

fatbelly

[slick132]

Hi Fatbelly,

 

Given what you say about the level of your earnings, I cannot see why DWP would say you've not paid enough NIC.

 

Can you confirm exactly what their letter says about this.

 

Also, from what you say, I think it unlikely the employer has not been paying over the PAYE deductions. It's possible this happened in the last month or so before the Co went under. But I'd be very surprised if this went on, unnoticed, for any significant time.

 

In any event, if you can show that deductions were taken and you were paid the Net amount each week, HMRC should not penalise you, even in the unlikely event that the PAYE deductions were not paid to HMRC as required.

 

Don't wind yourself up calling the NI Helpline. Answer about what the letter says and we'll take it from there.

 

[fatbelly 1]

OK slick here we go pretty much word for word so i apologise in advance.

 

YOU CLAIMED JOBSEEKERS ALLOWENCE FROM 6TH DECEMBER 2013.THIS INCLUDES YOUR BACKDATED CLAIM FROM 6TH DECEMBER 2013 TO 27TH JANUARY 2014.

WE HAVE LOOKED AT YOUR BACKDATED CLAIM AND DECIDED THAT YOU HAVE SATISFIED THE LABOUR MARKET CONDITIONS FOR JOBSEEKERS ALLOWENCE FROM 5TH DECEMBER 2013 TO 27TH DECEMBER 2014

 

WE HAVE ALSO DECIDED THAT YOU HAVE NOT SHOWN GOOD CAUSE FOR THE DELAY IN MAKING YOUR CLAIM FROM 6TH DECEMBER 2013 TO 27TH DECEMBER 2015.

THIS MEANS WE CANNOT BACKDATE YOUR JOBSEEKERS ALLOWENCE.

 

WE CANNOT AWARD NATIONAL INSURENCE CONTRIBUTIONS CREDITS FRO THE PERIOD 6TH DECEMBER 2013 TO 27TH JANUARY 2014

 

WE CANNOT PAY JOBSEEKERS ALLOWNECE FROM 28TH JANUARY 2014.

 

WE CANNOT PAY YOU BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT PAID,OR BEEN CREDITED WITH,ENOUGH CLASS 1 NATIONAL INSURANCE CONTRIBUTIONS.

 

WE HAVE USED THE TAX YEAR ENDING 5 APRIL 201 AND 5TH APRIL 2013 TO ASSESS YOUR CLAIM.

 

WE WILL STILL CREDIT YOU WITH CLASS 1 NATIONAL INSURANCE CONTRIBUTIONS IF YOU CONTINUE TO ATTEND THE JOBCENTRE.

 

as you can see slick i am confused as to what's happened here i do have a very sick feeling that my ex employee has not been paying my tax and national insurance but can not prove it .

like i said previously i have received no letters at all from the HMRC raising any concerns.

 

as a side issue before i went into the jobcentre for my initial interview i wasn't aware you could back date it.

 

i was hoping i wouldn't have to sign on and find a job a bit quicker than i have done.

 

i also have still not received a P45.

 

on a good note i should start a new job next week...

 

all i really want is what i am owed ?

hope this makes sense ?

regards

fatbelly

[honeybee13]

Hello again, thank you for this.

 

Slick knows more than I do, but I would say it's worth asking why they don't think you've paid enough NI and to let you have details.

 

I found a link on the HMRC website where you can ask for information on your NI history. It sounds a bit of a pain and I don't know how soon you would get the stuff back, but it could be useful as a back up.

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/ni/intro/online-statement.htm

 

If you don't receive a P45, you can look into getting a P46, I'll try to find you something.

 

HB

[honeybee13]

This is about people who don't have a P45. It looks as if your new employer should be able to help. It might be worth trying to befriend their payroll people so they help you.

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/payerti/employee-starting/new-employee-nop45.htm

 

HB

[estellyn]

I know this sounds silly, but have you checked your NINO on your payslips/P60's against the number on the DWP letter. I came across several clients with the same problem and the most common cause was an error with the national insurance number by the employer - for instance when initially inputting it into their system.

[fatbelly 1]

its a good point estellyn nut yes i did check it...many thanks

[**Margaret**]

:fatbelly 1:

 

Not to detract from any of the advice already offered, but should you need to try the helpline again, check what you have to pay for 0300 calls. Normally free or geographic rates from a landline.

 

Current number for the National Insurance Helpline - 03002 003500.

 

Margaret.

[slick132]

Hi Fatbelly,

 

A P46 will not apply here yet - that comes into play when you start a new job and have no P45.

 

On reading the text from DWP's letter, I think they are saying :-

 

You have no good reason for the delay in making your claim so we can't back-date it from 6th Dec'r to 27th Jan.

 

Accordingly we cannot credit you with NIC for the same period.

 

What I don't yet understand, and what you need to query at the Jobcentre, is their statement that you don't qualify for JSA from 28th Jan onwards due to insufficient NI Class 1 contributions.

 

Ask them why this is so, and ask if their records show that you paid NIC Class 1 in 20121/12 of £xxx and 2012/13 of £xx, as per your P60's.

 

This should tell you if the employer was paying over the PAYE deducted as necessary.

 

[antone]

Yes, precisely - they're saying that they've not accepted backdating so can't award NI credits for the relevant period. That decision is appealable, but it is hard to get backdating accepted for JSA as a general rule.

 

The source of the Jobcentre's information will be the National Insurance Recording System, as checked by the JSAPS computer when a claim is set up. If NIRS is wrong, JSAPS will also be wrong. So yeah, I'd start by finding out from HMRC what information is held there, and is it also on NIRS. As a matter of routine, the Jobcentre can't make changes to NIRS.

 

So, if HMRC and NIRS have the correct information, the fault lies at the Jobcentre. If HMRC does not have the correct information, presumably the fault is theirs or that of the employer.