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    • It looks as if you are doing ok.   It looks as if all so you've been doing some of the reading but keep on doing more reading and standby for a full reply later on today.    
    • Hi,    Thanks to this brilliant website (thank you for everything you do) I have started to make a claim against Hermes and have a pretty good idea of what I’m doing, I am just looking for some guidance around making sure I get the wording right / when to send what.   Brief background:   I bought a rug for £600 which I then decided to return. I booked a courier directly through the Hermes website on 18/08/2021 and opted for the standard insurance.   On 24/08/2021 the rug seller informed me she hadn’t received the rug, so I chased Hermes. After some back and forth, they admitted they lost the parcel on 25/08/2021 and invited me to make a claim, which I did, asking for the full amount - £600 plus £10.34 postage cost.   On 13/09/2021 Hermes confirmed they will be paying me £20 compensation plus £10.34 postage cost. I received this compensation from them in my bank account on 14/09/2021.     As far as I can understand my next steps are:    -       Send them the Letter of Claim (I have no specific email address so do I just send this to the generic Hermes support email address ([email protected]) ? Do I need to send a physical letter in the post too? If so, just to their generic address (Hermes, 1 Capitol Close, Morley, Leeds, LS27 0WH)? -       Send them the Particulars of Claim (Should this be a part of the Letter of Claim above, as in, send both the Letter of Claim and Particulars of Claim at the same time?) -        Make money claim online (I have completed all the information needed and am ready to pay – do I go ahead and pay the £70 now or do I need to give Hermes time to reply to my Letter of Claim before paying?)     Below are my draft Letter of Claim and Particulars of Claim, based on previous claims made.    Any help very much appreciated, huge thanks!   Letter of claim   Parcel ID – XXX Claim reference number XXX   Letter of claim   On 18/08/2021 I used your service to send a parcel under the above reference number. The parcel did not arrive at the destination and after several exchanges with your customer service staff, I was told on 25/08/2021 that the item was lost. I was also told that I would not be entitled to make any compensation claim because I had not purchased an additional compensation cover. My position is that I have paid the delivery fee and it is not for me to insure against the negligence of Hermes. It is for Hermes to protect themselves against liability for their own negligence and not pass the buck onto their customers.  I see this requirement as an unenforceable unfair term designed to exclude liability and to prevent me from taking a legal action. I am preparing to take you to court. If you force this to a court hearing – you can be certain that I shall be producing evidence from many different sources to show that you systematically lose parcels and decline liability on spurious grounds which are unfair and unenforceable. The contents of my parcel were valued at £600.00 plus the delivery fee of £10.34. If I do not have reimbursement in full within 14 days then I shall issue a claim in the County Court to recover this money from you plus interest and without any further notice. Yours faithfully,    XXX     Particulars of Claim     The claimant used the defendant's courier service to deliver an item, value £600 to a UK address. Reference number xxx. The defendant breached the contract by losing the item and refuses to compensate the claimant on the basis that the claimant did not take out the defendant's insurance policy. The defendant's requirement that a customer is responsible for insuring themselves against the defendants own negligence or the criminality of its employees are unfair within the meaning of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and therefore unenforceable. The claimant seeks £600 plus delivery fee £10.34, plus court fees £70, total: £680.34+ interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts act 1984.
    • Send it to the data protection team and then copy it to everybody else as well
    • At the risk of repeating myself over and over again  During our very first phone call i was nothing but polite and apologetic You said that you felt the bonnet had more stone chip's than you were expecting and i apologised sincerely and i politely asked what would make you happy  I told you what our costs would be to paint a bonnet i told the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth, i sent you a copy of our pricing structure from the paint company to prove my honesty and i sent you the £150 direct to your bank within minutes of our call ending.  Having then received no other response until your email arrived the following day i tried to call as i always find it easier to talk in person as emails can be misconstrued so easily but you wouldn't take my calls  I tried desperately not to be rude in any way with my email reply and read and reread my response several times  I genuinely felt that i had been respectful and we had previously sent customers into lincoln whilst we have carried out repairs to cars and they have always been overjoyed and complimentary of what a lovely place lincoln is to visit so that offer was meant with sincere intentions.    We offered in the very first email 1 A full refund  2 3/4 of the cost of a full repair  3 To completely repair at our cost  Including fuel money and a free lunch  You then emailed to say you had decided you wanted a larger contribution to the cost of painting the bonnet so in the interest of customer service i agreed to send you the extra £112.50 The very next day i received your next email and you had decided this wasnt good enough and you wanted the whole cost  Now after all these emails and all this stress you have decided after taking further advice that you will be happy with the £112.50.    So upon production of a vat invoice we will gladly send you the £112.50.    I have nothing further to add  Sincerely  Mark   
    • That's great work.  Well done on both the content and the level of snottiness.  That's exactly the sort of thing your wife should send, let them know she's sussed their sordid scheme and will be big trouble for them if they do court.  Fancy trying to charge her for overstaying for one minute!   Excellent "Dear Philip and Sian" research, I must confess I didn't know who ran PE, this will be something to suggest to Caggers in future PE cases!   If none of the other regulars object invest in a 2nd class stamp tomorrow and get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office. My Road My Town My County My Postcode Date Your Reference No. Dear Philip and Sian, Thanks for wasting your pennies and sending me a letter before claim. I understand you think I owe you something. I had a good laugh at the idea you actually really thought I'd take such tripe seriously and cough up! Now, you know that your claim has no basis and I know that you know that your claim has no basis Your can either drop this hopeless case or get a good spanking in court where I will go for an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) and I’ll be able spend some of your ill-gotten gains. Me
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Have taken BMI to Court


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Have taken these idiots to court...after much deliberation and letters and phone calls to sodding India :mad:


Have figured that their "charges" are unlawful in a similar way to the bank charges...


Don't beleive me?


£30 says it is ;-)



1.The Claimant purchased 2 flights from

London heathrow to Dublin 2.The Defendant

debited total amount of £54.00 for the

flights; £67.50 for applicable taxes,

passenger surcharge, and insurance surcharge

charge(taxes); 3 Claimant canceled flight of

own accord. Defendant offered total of

£17.50 refund from taxes portion of the

transaction which was rejected. Defendants

fee for cancellation and processing of this

was £50. 4. Claimant contends; a) The charges

exceed the Defendants losses caused by

cancelling; (b) The Term permitting the

Defendant to levy such charges is

unenforceable under the Unfair Terms in

Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999, Unfair

Contract Terms Act 1977 and at Common Law. 5.

Claimant claims: (a)Return of the amounts

debited of £67.50 for taxes portion of

transaction and refund; (b)Alternatively, if

the charge is a fee for a service, then they

must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply

of Goods and Services Act 1982.©Court costs

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cheap flights from UK to Europe and America | bmi


Here is a statement in BMI terms and condtions whereby if the booking is cancelled then one is entitled to a refund of the Taxes portion of the transaction less an "administration fee"


It is this "administration fee" (which turned out to be £50) that I am contesting in court.


Does it really cost £50 to do a refund and cancel a booking?


Can anyone suggest any other approach I could take on this in court other than trying to prove that their cost is unreasonable under s.15 of the sale of goods and services act 1982 ?




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Almost all companies whether they are banks or not, will intend to defend at the initital stage of a claim against them.


You appear to be doing all the right things, now keep going.


Finally, I would suggest that it does not cost £50 to cancel a booking, but, if it really does, let them show you in court.

iGroup (GE Money) - AoS Filed late, defence late, amended defence also late despite extra time requested and granted.

Vanquis - Claim issued, no AoS or Defence received

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  • 2 weeks later...

Ok - some development on this court claim.


BMI has submitted a legnthy defence saying in short that the charges are reasonable - and they are willing to submit evidence in court to back this up.

I have the AQ to fill in but comments welcome before I proceed...


I am very much intrigued as to how it costs £50 to conduct refund back to a debit card - and find it hard to beleive that there is no penalty factored into this cost.


In any case, here is the defence word-for-word.


Any comments / suggestions greatly appreciated...









- and -


trading as bmi



1. Paragraphs 1 to 3 of the Claimants Particulars of Claim are admitted.

2. The Defendant denies that the refund administration charges of £25 per ticket

exceeds the Defendants loss caused by the cancellation and processing of the

cancellation by the Claimant as alleged in paragraph 4(b) of the Claimants

particulars of Claim.



(a) In order to offer tiny tickets at the lowest possible price, the costs of such

tickets are stripped of predominantly all charges for contingency events. This is

not the case with certain of the other tickets which the Claimant had the

opportunity to purchase. One of these charges is an administration charges for

cancellation by the passenger. Rather than increase the ticket price, the Defendant

only levies a charge to cover cancellations where the passenger cancels.


(b) The Defendant operates a telephone and internet service to enable passengers to

cancel tickets. Both operations involve a manual process which requires a dedicated

member of staff processing any refund manually. The process involves checking that

the passenger's ticket has not been used, the calculation of the refund due, the

manual input of refund details including the passengers name and credit card/debit

card details. The Defendant intends to submit evidence of the process to show that

the cancellation fee is a fair pre-estimate of the Defendants loss.


3. The Defendant denies that the terms set out in their booking terms and conditions

entitling the Defendant to levy an administration charge in the event that the,

passenger unilaterally cancels their ticket, are unenforceable whether as alleged in

paragraph 4(b) of the Claimants particulars of Claim or at all. In any event, the

Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 (1977 Act) is not applicable as the terms in

question are not exclusions or limitations of liability. If, which is not admitted,

the 1977 Act is applicable, the terms are reasonable in the circumstances.



(a) The Defendant operates a number of different types of ticket at varying prices.

The ticket purchased by the Claimant is known as a 'tiny' ticket and is the lowest

price seat the Defendant sells.

(b) The flexibility of the ticket is dependant upon which ticket a passenger

purchases. On the flights for which the Claimant booked tickets, the Defendants

full range of tickets from tiny to business flexible where available. The Defendant

chose to purchase a tiny ticket where a fully flexible ticket allowing a full refund

without any administration charge at a higher price was available.


4. The Defendant denies that the cancellation fee must be reasonable under Section

15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 (1982 Act) as alleged in paragraph

5© of the Claimants particulars of Claim. If, which is not admitted, Section 15 of

the 1982 Act' is applicable in the terms are reasonable in the circumstances.



(a) The particulars to paragraph 3 above are repeated.

(b) Section 15 of the 1982 Act implies a term that charges must be reasonable in the

event that the consideration for the service is not determined by the contract. The

terms and conditions of carriage governing ,the relationship between the Defendant

and the Claimant clearly state the cancellation fee and as such, section 15 is not



5. Save as aforesaid, each of the allegations set out in the Particulars of Claim

are denied and the Claimant is put to strict ,proof of the same. It is denied that

the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief, for the reasons

alleged or at all.


Statement of Truth.

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in the Defence are true

I am duly authorised by the Defendant to sign this statement.


David Owen

Group Legal Advisor

David Owen

Group Legal Adviser

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If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck...


Further it looks to me like the £25 is an arbitrary sum and bears no relation to the potential loss.


It will be interesting to see if a) they turn up and b) how they intend to prove their costs.

iGroup (GE Money) - AoS Filed late, defence late, amended defence also late despite extra time requested and granted.

Vanquis - Claim issued, no AoS or Defence received

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  • 4 weeks later...

Good for you Magzy, well done - I guess they were penalties after all then...

iGroup (GE Money) - AoS Filed late, defence late, amended defence also late despite extra time requested and granted.

Vanquis - Claim issued, no AoS or Defence received

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  • 4 weeks later...
Here is the letter from BMI outlining their settlement offer.

I have accepted this as It was what my claim was for.


ImageShack - Hosting :: bmixi0.jpg



(they still have not paid it though) :-|


WELL DONE - Maybe you have to accept first in writing before they issue the cheque. Best thing is to phone them and ask where the cheque is!



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I did send a letter saying I accept the offer mid december..


nearly a month gone now.


I will contact them again asking for the money plus the statutory 8% interest which will add to about £3 - will get me a pint down't pub I suppose...

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  • 2 weeks later...

sent an email to david owen (bmi legal advidor) stating pay up or face more legal action and costs. cheque arrived yesterday - result!


So it was worth the £30 to take them to court!



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sent an email to david owen (bmi legal advidor) stating pay up or face more legal action and costs. cheque arrived yesterday - result!


So it was worth the £30 to take them to court!




Good Result - Well Done

It just shows you just have to stick to your guns and you did.


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