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    • My WS as I intend to send it... any problems anyone can spot?         In the county court at Middlesbrough Claim No:  Between Vehicle Control Services Limited (Claimant) V   (Defendant) Witness Statement Introduction It is admitted that the Defendant is the registered keeper of XXnn XXX   Locus standi/bye-laws and Relevant land Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedom Act 2012 (PoFA) allows recovery of unpaid parking charges from the keeper of the vehicle. However, the first paragraph 1 (1) (a) states that it only applies “in respect of parking of the vehicle on relevant land:”. The definition of “relevant land” is given in paragraph 3 (1) where subsection (c) excludes “any land ... on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control”.  The bus stop is not on relevant land because the public road on which that stand is on is covered by the Road Traffic Act.  Notwithstanding that the claimant claims that " the claimant has given the Defendant its contractual licence to enter the site", the claimant has not given any contractual licence whatsoever. This is a road leading to/from the airport which is covered by the Road Traffic Act.  A list of highways on the Highways act 1980 does not even exist. The defendant brings the attention of the court that VCS is using this non existent document issue as a deliberate strategy to debunk the fact that this road is not relevant land. VCS are put to strict proof that it is relevant land not covered by the Road Traffic Act nor by Byelaws. While it is true that landowners can bring in their own terms, it is also true that whatever terms they bring  cannot overrule Byelaws and the Road Traffic Act. If Bye Laws are involved then the bus stop is not relevant land and neither is the specious argument about First Great Western Ltd. Is the claimant ignorant of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012? The road outside of Doncaster Sheffield Airport is not relevant land and is not covered by the Protection of Freedoms Act. That makes the charge against the claimant tantamount to fraud or extortion. The claimant mentions a couple occasions where they have won such cases. It is brought to the attention of the court that none of those cited cases were on airport land. VCS actually has also lost a lot more cases than they have won using their prohibitive signs.  Airport land is covered by Bye Laws and hence the claim by VCS is not applicable in this instance. The remit of VCS ends in the car park and does not extend to the bus stops on public roads or land which they have no jurisdiction over. All classes of people go to the airport. This includes travellers, taxis, fuel bowsers, airport staff, companies delivering food and drink for each aircraft, air traffic controllers and buses with passengers. It is therefore absolutely ridiculous to attribute VCS with any sort of permissions. The defendant submits that VCS should not confuse a major thoroughfare with a car park and presume to act as land owners and usurp the control of any land which is not relevant to them.   Protection of Freedoms Act The clearest point on section 4.1 of the Protection of Freedoms act is that “The provisions in Schedule 4 are intended to apply only on private land in England and Wales. Public highways are excluded as well as any parking places on public land which are either provided or controlled by a local authority (or other government body). Any land which already has statutory controls in relation to the parking of vehicles (such as byelaws applying to airports, ports and some railway station car parks) is also excluded.” Therefore, as this case pertains to an airport, the claimant unlawfully obtained the registered keeper’s details against the defendant’s vehicle. Thus, on this basis alone, the defendant implores the court to throw out this case. Notwithstanding the above point, if perchance Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms act 2012 were to apply, the claimant is put to strict proof that they complied with the requirements of section 7 stating, “(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to driver for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met. The notice must — (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;” Without such proof the court must of necessity throw out this case forthwith.   Deceit, Intimidation and Extortion The Claimant’s Particulars of Claim include £50 legal costs, yet in the letter dated  03/06/2021, the Claimant stated that they were no longer represented by Elms Legal and all further correspondence should be sent to the VCS in-house litigation department. Why should the Claimant be asking the Defendant to contribute to their employee’s salary?  Furthermore, as per another letter dated 30th July 2021, the Claimant wrote, ‘Should you fail to accept our offer of settlement then we will proceed to Trial and bring this letter to the Court’s attention upon question of costs in order seek further costs of £220 incurred in having to instruct a local Solicitor to attend the hearing in conjunction with the amount claimed on the Claim Form.’ I find this an extraordinary statement given the Claimant knows legal costs are capped at £50 in Small Claims Court. I cannot think of any reason why the Claimant would write this letter other than to intimidate the opposing party with the threat of an extortionate sum of money, hoping they would be able to take advantage of someone not knowing the Small Claims Court rules. Given that this letter came from the Claimant’s in-house litigation department, clearly well-versed in the law, this cannot be anything but deceitful and disingenuous behaviour which the court should never tolerate.    Contractual costs / debt recovery charge  In addition to the £50 legal costs, the Claimant is seeking recovery of the original £100 parking charge plus an additional £60 which is described as ‘debt collection costs’. In the Vehicle Control Service v Claim Number: 18 on 4th September 2019, District Judge Jones-Evans stated, ‘Upon it being recorded that District Judge Jones-Evans has over a very significant period of time warned advocates […] in many cases of this nature before this court that their claim for £60 is unenforceable in law and is an abuse of process and is nothing more than a poor attempt to go behind the decision of the Supreme Court in Beavis which inter alia decided that a figure of £160 as a global sum claimed in this case would be a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss and therefore unenforceable in law and if the practice continued he would treat all cases as a claim for £160 and therefore a penalty and unenforceable in law. It is hereby declared […] the claim be struck out and declared to be wholly without merit and an abuse of process.’  In Claim number F0DP806M and F0DP201T, Britannia v Crosby went further in a landmark judgement in November 2019 which followed several parking charge claims being struck out in the area overseen by His Honour Judge Iain Hamilton-Douglas Hughes GC, the Designated Civil Judge for Dorset, Hampshire, Isle of White & Wiltshire. District Judge Taylor echoed the earlier General Judgement or Orders of District Judge Grand stating, ‘It is ordered that the claim is struck out as an abuse of process. The claim contains a substantial charge additional to the parking charge which it is alleged the Defendant contracted to pay. This additional charge is not recoverable under the Protection of Freedom Acts 2012, Schedule 4 nor with reference to the judgment in ParkingEye v Beavis. It is an abuse of process from the Claimant to issue a knowingly inflated claim for an additional sum which it is not entitled to recover. This order has been made by the court of its own initiative without a hearing pursuant to CPR Rule 3.3(4) of the Civil Procedure Rules 1998…’ Vehicle Control Service v Claim Number: 19 51. Moreover, the addition of costs not specified on signage are also in breach of the Consumer Rights Act 2015, Schedule 2, specifically paras 6, 10 and 14.  It is the Defendant’s position that the Claimant in this case has knowingly submitted inflated costs and thus the entire claim should be similarly struck out in accordance with Civil Procedure Rule 3.3(4).  The Defendant is of the view that the Claimant knew, or should have known, that to claim in excess of £100 for a parking charge on private lands is disallowed under the Civil Procedure Rules, the Beavis Case, the Protection of Freedom Act 2012 and Consumer Rights Act 2015, and that relief from sanctions should be refused.   Alleged contract The court should consider if there is any contract to start with and if the alleged offence is on relevant land. The consideration will inevitably lead the court to conclude that there is no contract.  Also the court should note that there is no valid contract that exists between VCS and Peel. Under the Companies Act, a contract should be signed by the directors of both companies and witnessed by two independent individuals. This alleged contract, which makes no mention of pursuing registered keepers of vehicles to court, makes its first appearance as a Witness Statement. Thus the alleged contract is null and void.  The Beavis case referred to by the claimant is about parking in a car park. The claimant is here attempting to equate that case to stopping, not parking, in a bus stop and on a road that is covered by the Road Traffic Act. The defendant submits that there can be no contract as there is no offer but there is only a prohibition. Again, it is not relevant land and VCS has absolutely no rights over it. Further, the defendant would like to point out that motorists NEVER accept any contract just by entering the land. First they must read it and understand it and then, and only then can they realise that "No stopping" is prohibitive and cannot offer a contract.   Bus stop signage The signs around the bus stop do not mention who issued the “No Stopping” signs so it could not have been issued by VCS since the IPC CoP states that their signs should include the IPC logo and that the creditor should be identified. Nothing on the signs around the bus stop that says “NO Stopping” mentions VCS or Peel Investments who are now purporting to be the land owners of a public road. As the signage should identify the creditor, since it does not, this is a breach of the CoP.   The Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 does not prohibit stopping in a restricted bus stop or stand, it prohibits stopping in a clearway. The defendant would like to ask the court to consider if any clause of the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2016 that the claimant alleges has been violated by the defendant. There is no mention of permits on the signage. If there were, would it mean that Permit holders were allowed to stop on “No Stopping” roads? Notwithstanding what the claimant calls it, the mentioned signage is NOT a contractual clause. A “No stopping” sign is not an offer of parking terms.  Since the signage around the bus stop is prohibitive, it is as such is incapable of forming a contract. Further, the defendant would like to point out that the prohibitive sign is not actually at the bus stop but a few metres before the stand itself. There is no mention of a £100 charge for breaching the “No stopping” request, or if there is one then it is far too small to read, even for a pedestrian. As already stated, a Witness Statement between VCS and Peel Investments is not a valid document. It will need more than the Claimants feather to outweigh the case against the Defendant regardless of who was driving. There is no law of agency involved. This is not a case of employer/employee relationship. VCS cannot transfer the driver's liability to the registered keeper. There can be no comparison between a railway station and an airport. This is a totally fatuous analogy which cannot be applied to this case.  As stated in the defence, it is denied the Claimant is entitled to the recovery or any recovery at all. The nefarious parking charge notice given for a vehicle on a public road bus stop was ill advised to start with.   Conclusions:   VCS has failed to present ANY reasonable and valid cause to apply to the DVLA for the Defendants details. VCS has failed to provide ANY valid  contract with the landowners. “No stopping” is prohibitive therefore cannot form a contract the event happened on a bus stop over which VCS has no jurisdiction the signage either does not show that there was a charge of £100 for stopping, or the font size was too small for any motorist to be able to read it  the signage does not show the Creditor which fails the IPC CoP and hence the signage is not valid the WS contract does not authorise VCS to pursue motorists to Court Given all these factors it seems that VCS have breached the GDPR of the Defendant quite substantially and it would appear right that an exemplary award is made against VCS in the hope that they will drop all further cases at Doncaster airport where they are pursuing motorists on non relevant land. The Defendant wishes to bring to the attention of the court that the Claimant cites an irrelevant case of a car park and tries to apply its merits to a bus stop. That in itself invalidates the entire fallacious claim. Accordingly, this case is totally without merit. Some statements are pretty close to perjury and others are designed to mislead or misdirect. None of the analogies seem appropriate or relevant. All the false information presented as a statement of truth could have been stated using half the words and without all the repetition which appears to be trying to build a strong case where there is none at all. One particularly bad example of misdirection is in the photographs. The Clearway sign shown near the bus stop is very unclear unlike the Clearway sign two photos before it which may well include terms and conditions. The one by the bus stop is totally different.   47. Lastly I wish to bring to the attention of the court, a systematic pattern of the Claimant’s court action behaviour in several of their cases. They tend to have a VCS paralegal writing a Witness Statement, then mentioning in the last paragraph of the Witness Statement that they may be unable to attend court and subsequently the paralegals never turn up to be cross examined. In the event that Mohammed Wali is unable to attend court to be asked about his claims, then I would like to know why he is not able to attend when the hearing has been scheduled months in advance, is during working hours and as a result of covid, is online, meaning there is no travel involved. Ambreen Arshad, the other paralegal employed by VCS, does exactly the same. 
    • Hang on. don't panic!   You sent the snotty letter which has told the fleecers to put up or shut up.  So far they've haven't taken you to court.  This might change, but so far you're in the driving seat.  You don't have to deal with them any more.  It's up to them if they have the gonads to start court action or not.   Regarding DCBL, they are not representing their client in the normal way that a solicitor represents a client, because the sums of money involved are too low for that.  They are just chucked a few quid to send a couple of "threatening" letters.  There is no point in dealing with them.   If you want the original PCN send a SAR to UKPCM only.  For the SAR letter simply click on "SAR".   However, the SAR has nothing to do with the 30 days, you've already dealt with that with the snotty letter.  You need to read lots of similar threads and familiarise yourself with the legal process.  CAG is a superb free library.    
    • Hi again, so I will send a SAR to UKPC because I don't remember seeing the  NTK.  Then should I let DCBL know otherwise they will probably issue the court papers but they might hold off if i tell them about the SAR?   what do you think?  I need to do it this weekend or it will be beyond the 30 days.  Otherwise to let it run will definitely lead to a court case perhaps??   Can I get a copy of a SAR letter on here? thanks
    • 👍   One thing, write "unlawful", not "illegal".   Sorry to be pernickety, but "illegal" = "a crime".   "unlawful" = "not in accordance with the law".    They've lied to the DVLA but that's not actually a crime, it's misuse of your personal data which is a civil matter, and you can sue the idiots once your case is over for breach of GDPR, but it's not a criminal offence.
    • Just added also paragraph 11 stating " Notwithstanding the above point, if perchance Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms act 2012 were to apply, VCS should prove that they complied with the requirements of section 7 stating, “(1)A notice which is to be relied on as a notice to driver for the purposes of paragraph 6(1)(a) is given in accordance with this paragraph if the following requirements are met. The notice must — (a)specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates;” Without such proof the court must of necessity throw out this case forthwith."
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Gopher v HSBC ** WON **


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Hi All,

 

This website is great!! :p

 

Second 14 day letter sent to HSBC by registered delivery (1st 14 day letter ignored) and today I have received an offer from them.

 

I am claiming just over £2,000 in charges from them and they have offered just over £,1800.

 

Now, from reading forums and watch the TV, I understand that this is a good first offer but would like to know your thoughts. I see that they have ended up paying in full for a lot of claims.

 

Baring in mind how near we are to Xmas, what would you do? Accept their offer or write back to them and demand the full amount and if full amount is not forthcoming they will receive a summons incl extra interest and charges?

 

Off to sleep on it and see what the family think, but would love to hear from you guys in the meantime too.

 

Thanks,

 

GTG. xx

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I see exactly what you mean about it being close to Christmas but really, you've got ages yet in terms of weeks... I would hold out for the full amount if I were you! - It is unexpected money... u didn't know you'd be getting it.. so hold on in there!

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What reason did they give for offering only 90%? Is there a chance you have made an error in your calculations that they have picked up on?

 

If not then I would write back, saying that you accept the offer as part-settlement of your claim, but you will continue to pursue them for the outstanding £200. You will, of course, drop all action should the full amount be available to you, as cleared funds, before your second deadline.

 

Good luck.

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Up to you really. They will pay all of it in the end, so you can choose between getting most of it now or getting all of it + interest if you wait a couple of weeks. As they are legally entitled to charge their actual costs, some may say that 90% is a fair and just offer and a good representation of the money taken unlawfully, others will say, with just as much validity, that they refuse to divulge their actual costs so they should pay the lot. Going on evidance from all the settled claims, they always pay the lot if you hold out for it, usually 2 or 3 weeks after you issue the claim.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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Hi there Gordon. My offer was similar to yours. I accepted as part payment. But they had left it too late. I'll give you a quick summary off my track so far...

4th sept-prelim letter sent for £1796

18th lba sent. prelim ignored

28th offer of £1620

29th accepted as part payment

4th applied to MCOL

5th letter recived off MCOL saying HSBC got 14 days from 10th to respond

12th letter fro court saying HSBC going to defend, signed by DG solicitors

28th Letter from DG solicitors asking forsumary of charges in case hsbc decide to settle.

hope ths givs you an idea of time scale. every letter i have i what CAG members have said i would have.lol

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Thanks loads for the replies so far.

 

Still quite undecided but defo going to sleep on it for the rest of the weekend and decide at the start of the week what I'm going to do.

 

Any more comments in the meatime will be greatfully received and I'll let y'all know what I decide.

 

Thanks!

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Claim for the lot, but it is incumbent on you to accept an interim payment if offered. However, you are not obliged to accept anything if there are attached conditions.

 

Simply say that you will accept as part payment, but that you will pursue them for the balance.

Alecto, Magaera et Tisiphone: Nemesis on Earth is come.

 

All advice and opinions given by Spiceskull are personal, and are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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The thing is, their 14 days are up to pay in full.

 

I have decided just to go ahead and issue a summons on them now - remember I said if they'd not paid in full within 14 days I would take action WITHOUT FURTHER NOTICE.

 

Thanks so much for the replies etc. I'll let you know how things go.

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Hi Gordon,

 

I'm not in a position to advise, but I'm going for 100% of what I'm owed. They took my hard earned money and now I'm on a mission to get it back - I got into great financial hardship due to some of the costs I incurred from these guys. I'm still only in my mid 20's so hopefully I can repair the damage aleady done!

 

Go for it & good luck,.

 

LeeS80.

HSBC - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) 30/10/06

 

07/11/06 - Letter refunding cheque and informing statements will be along shortly.

08/11/06 - Statements from Jan-2001 to Jan-2004 rec'd. Requested more but am waiting.

09/11/06 - Sending of prelim request for refund! £913.50

27/11/06 - Letter from Royal Mail, original prelim lost in post!!

06/12/06 - Another prelim sent :(

19/12/06 - Reply from Mr Langdale saying complaint received and that I'll have a proper response by 5th January 07....

 

Capital One - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) 31/10/06

 

Sent off prelim for £392.00 - All adds up I suppose! 06-12-06

Partial Offer received 19/12/06 - £152, offer accepted as part settlement only......

 

GE Capital Bank - S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) 31/10/06

 

Store card account. Charges approx £200, prelim being sent off in the new year!

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Hi Gordon,

 

I'd wait the extra couple of weeks so you can have all your money back and your 8% interest.

I had an offer of approx 90% of what i was requesting. They didn't reply to either of my letters until after I'd moneyclaimed them. I had also given them an extra week to reply. They stated they intended to defend, and last week i got a letter offering the full amount. Thats just two weeks after their first offer.

 

Get them moneyclaimed!

 

libertie

______________________________________________________________________

Halifax prelim 23/5/06, LBA sent 31/5/06, moneyclaim 27/6/06, Halifax intend to defend, halifax paid up!19/7/06:D Donation made.

Amex prelim 22/5/06, LBA sent 5/6/06, Final LBA sent 9/6/06, settled 30/6/06:D Donation made.

Barclaycard prelim 26/5/06, LBA sent 9/6/06......to be contd

HSBC prelim sent 6/9/06, LBA sent 19/9/06, MCOL 12/10/06....

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  • 1 month later...

Ok guys, an update!

 

I have been reading a few of the other threads and now find myself in a similar position:

 

I have heard from DG Sols and also have the confirmation through that they intend to defend the claim I submitted via MCOL.

 

I got a letter from them last week asking for full details of the claim (like HSBC haven't already provided them with this!) so sent all the info off again asking them for the full charges plus interest plus court fee.

 

Today I have received the allocation form and full info from my local court - but have to pay the additional £100 fee when I fill it in. I have a short while to get this info completed.

 

However, it would appear that reading through the threads, I will get another letter from DG Sols either offering partial (again) or full settlement. Obviously I am still going for the full amount.

 

My question is - it would appear that this will be resolved before my time is up to fill in the allocation form. Has anyone paid the £100 and filled it in then settled? Do you get the £100 back or should I hand on for a while longer and wait to hear from DG Sols before my deadline is up?

 

Thanks guys,

 

GTG. xx

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Hi GTG,

 

Hang on untill the last day set to file your AQ. I'd be very surprised if they had'nt settled by then, in fact its likely you'll hear from them any day now. If however you have'nt had a settlement by the AQ date, you'll have to submit it and pay the £100. Yes, the AQ fee is a recoverable cost, you will get it back if/when they settle.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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i agree - if you refused that offer last week - my money is on a full offer this week. this is what i did in exactly the same circumstances: wait until friday - if you haven't had another (100%) offer - call dg - asking for whoever sent the offer and say to them - i thought i would have heard from you by now - i'm getting a little anxious as the a.q. is due shortly and i'm sure you don't want to incur even more charges... and they said then and there that the offer was in the post - whether is really was or that prompted the mailing of it - regardless - it worked. so, wait til friday - and call (a.m. so you can be at it through the day if needs be).

nearly there.......

keep us posted - really, i can smell it.........money in your hand by next week!

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  • 1 month later...

Finally, last week it was won!!

 

Got the full amount through - just under £2,800.

 

Had to chase them loads for the money though, after I sent my acceptance back.

 

Have written to the court to tell them it's settled out of court now too.

 

Thanks LOADS to everyone on this site, and the site itself!

 

Perhaps a Moderator could move this thread to WON, now?? Thanks.

 

GTF. xx

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Congratulations! Thats excellent news!

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=4][COLOR=magenta]C [COLOR=black]& [/COLOR][COLOR=blue]D :) [/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [COLOR=black][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=mediumturquoise][B]HSBC[/B][COLOR=#000000]- Full settlement received & spent! £1,477.93 :-) [/COLOR][/COLOR][/FONT] [COLOR=mediumturquoise][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=mediumturquoise][B]HSBC claim 2![/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000] - Full settlement offer received 27/06 - £1,116 :) [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=mediumturquoise][B]A&L[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000] (for my Nan) - full settlement received on day of prelim hearing - approx £1500 :-)[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=mediumturquoise][B]Halifax[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000] - (for a friend) - full settlement received 30/06 - £2576! :) [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=mediumturquoise][B]Barclays[/B][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000] - (for a friend) - Court forms were due to be submitted but he wants to wait for results of the court case with OFT[/COLOR][/FONT] [/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=#000000][B][COLOR=mediumturquoise]A&L[/COLOR][/B] - (for a friend) - court forms submitted - claim 'stayed' due to OFT case[/COLOR][/FONT]

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Oh, I get this message when I try to send a PM:

 

GordonTheGopher, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

  1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
  2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

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Theres still a few glitches in the system as a result of the huge hit the other night. Should be sorted soon. I'll see if I can get your thread moved for you.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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not all that thin, siena - last sunday (21 jan) i pm'd 20 people with very recent results to pm blueskies and move their threads, to date 2 have.

there were 8 more i know of this last weekend - some are waiting until they see the money - but they have all have accepted offers. you'll be seeing more in this thread soon. but as we know - it is dragging out a bit just now. dg should hire in more staff.

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