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They have been hounding me following a PCN they issued, for parking at Aire Street car park, Leeds.

 

The day in question was Sunday 24/11/13,

parking between 15:00 and 23:00.

The driver paid the published "all day" rate of £3.50 and displayed the ticket properly.

PE are suggesting that the driver overstayed their welcome, and would like the driver to pay over £100 !!!

 

I appealed strongly, with photographic evidence of the signage at Aire Street.

There are two very large signs stating "Sat & Sun - £3.50 all day".

 

Now, unless I have been the only UK citizen to misunderstand the definition of the 24 hour "day",

then my appeal would be a total 'no brainer'.

 

To my astonishment PE rejected my appeal,

issue a POPLA code,

and offer me a discount of £50 as a 'gesture of goodwill'.

 

Guess what? - they re not getting a penny and can go to hell !!!!

 

I wish I could attach the photos (how do I do this?),

because they are the best laugh ever.

 

On revisiting the site, I noticed a third much smaller sign, reiterating the Sat/Sun £3.50 day rate,

with another note specifying an overnight rate Mon-Sun from 18:00.

The signage is totally ambiguous, lacking prominence and clearly designed to trap.

 

I resent the time and effort I am putting into this,

but am determined to fight back as strongly as possible.

 

I suppose more time must now be wasted filling in the POPLA appeal,

but I feel so annoyed about this that I want to write to other authorities,

and even see if the Yorkshire Evening Post would be interested in running an article

(they have done so previously about unscrupulous parking operators in Leeds).

 

Please cry and laugh along with me, but also let me have any advice, specifically around the POPLA appeal wording.

 

Many thanks.

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Morning,

 

Whilst I have a lot of time for this site the parking experts are to be found at moneysavingexpert and pepipoo, so you may be better looking there.

Also, check out the parking prankster for both a good laugh and a lot of practical advice.

I won't put links because the mods don't like them

 

Martin g

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I would use your opportunity to appeal to POPLA as this costs PE £27.50 and you nothing. Do not correspond with PE directly any more, it would be a waste of time.

Your appeal to POPLA should be that you paid the prescribed fee for 24h parking so no breach of contract or conditions. You can attach photographic evidence of signage if you wish, personally i would send appeal by post and include the images so no arguments abouit incorrect image file types etc.

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mjh, if you follow the instructions below, you should be able to post up your images :)

 

 

 

*you can post up images/letters by this method immediately..you don't need 10 posts**

.

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

.

************************* ************************* *******

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

************************* ************************* ***********

.

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or http://www.freepdfconvert.com/

or use www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice DD-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

...

YOU DONT have to put a link to the attachment in the msg box..just upload it ..job done

.

dx

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Agree with going to POPLA to cost PE money.

 

I would just stick with the signs say £3.50 and send the photos. Quick and easy and the worst that can happen is that POPLA side with PE and you can still ignore.

 

POPLA apparently really dislike the 'no contract, not a genuine pre-estimate' stuff which is usually obviously copied from internet sites.

RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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but the OP paid the money so accepted that they could park there withour interference from PE for the prescribed time. Simply, there is no breach of contract by the OP but there is now one by PE

The argument about no loss to operator applies for free car parks and charges for overstay being a penalty charge so I would reiterate the fee paid and PE are just plain wrong in claiming otherwise. they will probably withdraw their demand once the paperwork is due in front of POPLA and write a mealy-mouthed "in this instance we are going to let you off as a gesture of goodwill" rather than admit they are dishonest or stupid.

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but the OP paid the money so accepted that they could park there withour interference from PE for the prescribed time. Simply, there is no breach of contract by the OP but there is now one by PE

The argument about no loss to operator applies for free car parks and charges for overstay being a penalty charge so I would reiterate the fee paid and PE are just plain wrong in claiming otherwise. they will probably withdraw their demand once the paperwork is due in front of POPLA and write a mealy-mouthed "in this instance we are going to let you off as a gesture of goodwill" rather than admit they are dishonest or stupid.

 

Yes but always include winning points

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Agree with going to POPLA to cost PE money.

 

I would just stick with the signs say £3.50 and send the photos. Quick and easy and the worst that can happen is that POPLA side with PE and you can still ignore.

 

POPLA apparently really dislike the 'no contract, not a genuine pre-estimate' stuff which is usually obviously copied from internet sites.

 

Sorry but i really have to disagree with your very poor advice there. what you are doing is giving PE the chance of having a go at court and winning!

 

We have a 100% success record against PE with Genuine pre estimate of loss stuff as you put it, its what beats PE hands down at the moment, so why would you against this good track record.

 

Can i suggest that you dont give poor advice of this nature as it only leads to someone having more issues down the road.

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Sorry but i really have to disagree with your very poor advice there. what you are doing is giving PE the chance of having a go at court and winning!

 

We have a 100% success record against PE with Genuine pre estimate of loss stuff as you put it, its what beats PE hands down at the moment, so why would you against this good track record.

 

Can i suggest that you dont give poor advice of this nature as it only leads to someone having more issues down the road.

Your advice is not much better and basically agrees with reallymadwoman!

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I suggest you check out http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=4488337&page=38 and see how often Genuine pre estimate of loss beats the parking companies

 

I used to look at that site, but no more as a lot of advice is rubbish and people seem to prefer to attack other posters.

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Sorry but i really have to disagree with your very poor advice there. what you are doing is giving PE the chance of having a go at court and winning!

 

We have a 100% success record against PE with Genuine pre estimate of loss stuff as you put it, its what beats PE hands down at the moment, so why would you against this good track record.

 

Can i suggest that you dont give poor advice of this nature as it only leads to someone having more issues down the road.

 

Can you explain this a bit further? POPLA is not a binding arbitration. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure you can still defend yourself in court even if unsuccessful at POPLA.

 

As POPLA can be dealt with without a hearing, it costs the PPC money and has a chance to get rid of the ticket without needing to spend a day at court ... from where I sit it has to be worth doing?

 

There is not a 100% record against PE with genuine pre-estimate of loss stuff. There are at least a handful cases I've seen on pepipoo where this argument was rejected by the court and a CCJ issued. Despite huffing and puffing from the regulars as far as I'm aware those judgments have not been appealed. Though I agree that it is a strong argument which should be successful in the majority of cases.

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I will reiterate that POPLA severely dislike stuff obviously copied from internet forums, just as much as they dislike standard 'signs are always visible and always comply' responses from Parking companies, and in a case such as this where the OP has uncontovertible proof that they have paid the required amount, including anything but the essential facts isn't likely to help their case and may go against them.

RMW

"If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.

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The 100% success is at POPLA appeal on GPEOL with regards to PE. Its not so cut and dry at court were it has been found both ways. However appealing to POPLA simply on the point that you paid may not win at POPLA, it should do but not always, so it is better to use GPEOL as the main point.

 

POPLA decisions are binding on the PPC but not the motorist.

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I will reiterate that POPLA severely dislike stuff obviously copied from internet forums, just as much as they dislike standard 'signs are always visible and always comply' responses from Parking companies, and in a case such as this where the OP has uncontovertible proof that they have paid the required amount, including anything but the essential facts isn't likely to help their case and may go against them.

 

Again you are wrong, there is no problem with the OP advising they have paid the required Fee, but why rely on that when you can include sure fire defences at popla such as GPEOL.

So you shift the emphasis to PE to prove their loss, they cant, the assessor will find against PE, he will spot GPEOL and not bother with anything else

 

There is not point putting the OP at risk of loosing at Popla.

 

Telling people if they loose to PE at Popla they can ignore is costly advice, and pretty poor, why take the risk when you can cover all bases.

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Can you explain this a bit further? POPLA is not a binding arbitration. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure you can still defend yourself in court even if unsuccessful at POPLA.

 

As POPLA can be dealt with without a hearing, it costs the PPC money and has a chance to get rid of the ticket without needing to spend a day at court ... from where I sit it has to be worth doing?

 

There is not a 100% record against PE with genuine pre-estimate of loss stuff. There are at least a handful cases I've seen on pepipoo where this argument was rejected by the court and a CCJ issued. Despite huffing and puffing from the regulars as far as I'm aware those judgments have not been appealed. Though I agree that it is a strong argument which should be successful in the majority of cases.

 

Popla is always worth doing, but it should always include winning points, there is a 100& record of winning @ Popla against PE. so why not ALWAYS include those winning points, indeed cases have

been lost at Court on GPEOL

 

However we now have a 100% success rate against Parking eye in court hearings where the Defendant has been accompanied by a forum helper * waves to bargepole et al*

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Popla is always worth doing, but it should always include winning points, there is a 100& record of winning @ Popla against PE. so why not ALWAYS include those winning points, indeed cases have

been lost at Court on GPEOL

 

However we now have a 100% success rate against Parking eye in court hearings where the Defendant has been accompanied by a forum helper * waves to bargepole et al*

 

I agree completely and good to hear you guys have been successful in county court.

 

 

I am just wondering why the hostility to POPLA. Surely it is still worth having a go at POPLA even if you lose?

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Ok, further suggestion- use all and any valid reason but put them in the order that creates a proper time line to the events. so firstly argue that paid and displaid ticket so conditions of contract not breached Secondly argue that PE havent shown how contract breached (pictures of signage) and they then failed to show how paying money as prescribed can possibly cause a loss to them and that furthermore PE cannot show a genuine pre-estimate of loss by a breach, however caused. It steers the appeal in a certain direction but allows each point to be considered.

I thnik POPLA will consider 1 point only if they decide to uphold your appeal as if they agree to consider all points and find for you on each of them then PE would be in for it regarding possible criminal activity and certainly be ammunition for a claim against them.

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