Redundancy pay problems

[Strageway]

Hello everyone,

 

Need some advice please.

 

I was made redundant from my work just before christmas. I was the only person in the company made redundant and the company is still trading.

 

I received a letter telling me the day which will be my offical last day of employment which is 20/01/2014.

 

It states how much I will receive which was broken down ie £x for notice period etc. It however does not have a date when this will be paid.

 

It was in my understanding that I should be paid any monies owed on my last day of employment which is today. Am I correct?

 

I emailed the company director today asking where my payment was and he replied saying "I will chase your payment up but its more then likely going to be next week"

 

Now, he is the person who makes the payments so I dont know how someone chases up a payment that is done by that person if you get what I mean!

 

I emailed back saying the following

 

"Thank you for getting back to me so quickly.

 

I cannot wait until next week for the payment. The law states that I should receive the following on my last day of employment

 

Any redundancy pay, wages, holiday pay and other money due to you

Job references from your employer.

A letter stating the date of your redundancy.

A written statement showing how your redundancy pay has been calculated.

Your P45 (to give a new employer so you are taxed correctly).

 

I have made financial commitments on the belief that I would receive my payment today.

 

I kindly ask that the payment I am owed is sent to me by close of business tomorrow on the 21/01/2014.

 

I look forward to your response "

 

Is this something I should have done and if so, have I worded it ok?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

[steampowered]

Hi and welcome to CAG. The email looks fine to me - clear and firm, but also very polite. Hopefully he will try to speed it up.

[Emmzzi]

I don't think the law states that. Is your normal payday the last day of the month?

[Strageway]

I don't think the law states that. Is your normal payday the last day of the month?

 

Every single information site I have visited all say it should be paid on the last day of your employment.

 

The gov webites says, You should be paid your redudancy payment on the last day of employment unless a later date has been discussed and agreed by you!

 

The points in the email was copy and pased from the money advice service, So I giving that infomration on what I beleived to be true information due to all the major info sites saying the same.

 

Does the fact that the letter I received does not give a date I will receive my payment have any significance on when I receive my payment or does it mean it defaults to the last day of employment?

 

Im upset as I believed I would receive this payment today due to what all the info sites told me and the fact that the letter did not state overwise.

 

My mum works in HR and she also said I should have received it today!

 

The other thing thats annoying me is the part where he says he will chase it up! He pays his staff, he dont have a payroll depo, he has always paid me via bank transfer from his account!

 

I was always paid at the back end of the month but the day was random! One month it would be the 20th, the next the 30th, It seem he paid us when he could be assed or could actually do it! The time we was paid was random as well. One month would be there 9-10am others 2-6pm! Im glad im gone but I need to know where I stand.

 

I have put myself in a bad situation, I made commitments on the understanding I would get the payment today so now I dont have the money to fulfill theses comits which are going to lead to me getting fines/charges etc!

 

He seems to be wanting me to ok with waiting etc but he didnt seem to give any sort of dam about me when letting me go over christams apparently because he needs to save £3k a month and I was the only part time member of staff and the only 1 to be made redundant.

[Emmzzi]

Froam CAB website

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/work_e/work_work_comes_to_an_end_e/work_redundancy_e/redundancy_pay.htm#h_how_should_a_statutory_redundancy_payment_be_made

 

"Your employer is responsible for making a statutory redundancy payment to you on, or soon after, the date your employment ends."

 

can you share where you got the other information from? Genuinely interested as it is the first time I have heard of this.

[Template0716]

Taken from the old BERR website:

How long will it be before I can expect my money?

If your employer is paying the redundancy, then it should be paid on the last day that you work or as soon as is possible; if there is to be any lengthy delay, then it must be agreed with the employee. If the employee feels that they are having to wait too long, then they can take the employer to an Employment Tribunal.

The key to this is the 'as soon as possible.' When I processed redundancy payments in the past, if it was only a week before the payroll run, I would wait until then as we processed them through payroll. It depends if the employer pays the redundancy payment through the payroll system, a separate BACS payment or issuing a cheque.

Your redress is to make an ET claim but before that goes any further the payment will be completed.

[Strageway]

Taken from the old BERR website:

How long will it be before I can expect my money?

If your employer is paying the redundancy, then it should be paid on the last day that you work or as soon as is possible; if there is to be any lengthy delay, then it must be agreed with the employee. If the employee feels that they are having to wait too long, then they can take the employer to an Employment Tribunal.

The key to this is the 'as soon as possible.' When I processed redundancy payments in the past, if it was only a week before the payroll run, I would wait until then as we processed them through payroll. It depends if the employer pays the redundancy payment through the payroll system, a separate BACS payment or issuing a cheque.

Your redress is to make an ET claim but before that goes any further the payment will be completed.

 

He always paid me by BASC which was controlled by him, he paid the wages and our pay slips was generated and sent by a third party company.

 

If we go by the official pay day then I would normally get paid in 12 days time!

 

So basically I just have to hope my emails prompts him to get the payment sent to me instead of making me wait

[becky2585]

Froam CAB website

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/work_e/work_work_comes_to_an_end_e/work_redundancy_e/redundancy_pay.htm#h_how_should_a_statutory_redundancy_payment_be_made

 

"Your employer is responsible for making a statutory redundancy payment to you on, or soon after, the date your employment ends."

 

can you share where you got the other information from? Genuinely interested as it is the first time I have heard of this.

 

I've never heard of this either!

 

From what I can tell, it's best practice to pay on the final date of employment - but not an absolute right. The right is to be paid within a reasonable timescale - which I personally would interpret as being around the normal payroll run.

 

I certainly wouldn't be submitting an ET1 the day after my employment ended if I wasn't paid, as I'm sure a dim view would be taken of anyone who did!

 

Edit - just looked into this. Part XI ERA 1996 doesn't actually stipulate a timescale for payment, save for the six month time limit on issuing a claim. So legally, they could get away with not paying for months, as long as it is eventually paid. It's simply best practice to pay on or around the last date of employment.

[Strageway]

So iv finally been paid but just as I thought its wrong.

 

After phoning and my old boss refusing to take my call. I emailed him.

 

He only paid me for 5 days and not 9.

 

I received a letter from the company stating my employment would end on the 20th of January and stated how much redundancy I would get and that I was owed 2 days holiday.

 

I got the correct amount for the redundancy but only got paid 1 days holiday and was only paid for 5 days not 9. I worked part time so should have been 3 weeks pay.

 

In his email he has said that he didnt pay the 9 days because I found a new job and started on the 13th of Jan so thats the date he is paying me upto!

 

Is this legal? Or does he have to pay me up until the 20th as stated on the letter they sent to me?

 

Thanks for advice in advance

[Sidewinder]

If you didn't work it then I would say that the employer is right not to pay it. The redundancy notice outlining the total payments due would be calculated on the assumption that you worked until the date stated.

 

Was it agreed that you could leave earlier than you originally intended?

[Strageway]

If you didn't work it then I would say that the employer is right not to pay it. The redundancy notice outlining the total payments due would be calculated on the assumption that you worked until the date stated.

 

Was it agreed that you could leave earlier than you originally intended?

 

When I was made redundant he said I didnt have to work the 3 weeks notice and the 3 weeks notice ended on the 20th of Jan. It was not my choice not to work it!

 

Does this change anything?

[Strageway]

Can anyone advice?

 

Im eager to know so I can start to compose my reply to him.

 

Thank you

[Emmzzi]

If he is paying you, then you should be at his disposal should he wish you to come in and work, technically. I think probably you've both been lax on the paperwork however and there'll be nothing in writing?

 

For a new job before the period expires usually you offer counter notice and get paid less.

[Strageway]

He said to me "You dont need to work the 3 weeks notice and if you find another job within then ill still pay you"

 

I received a letter saying how much redundancy I would receive.

 

It also stated my end of employment is the 20th of January

 

It also stated that I am owed 2 days holiday/

 

So does this letter mean I have to be paid up to the 20th?

 

It was not me being lax with the paper work, it was all him. I would have been quite happy to work the 3 weeks notice but it was him who said I didnt have to. So now are you saying I am going to be penalised for his actions?

 

This is exactly what the letter says.

 

Further to our meeting xxx at which we served you notice of redundancy, we are now writing to confirm your payments.

 

You have been with us 3 years and are entiltled to one months notice. As discussed you are not required to attend work during your notice period.

 

Your employment with us will terminate on the 20th of January 2014.

 

You are entitled to the following payments:

 

Statutory redundancy pay at £184.61 per week for 3 weeks = £553.83

 

Plus the outstanding annual leave of 2 days which is due to you.

Pay up to and including your effective termination.

 

So to me that says I should have received pay upto the 20th and not the 13th. He also only paid me 1 days holiday which he conveniently didnt mention in his reply.

 

Hope this helps

[woad]

Do you have the original notice of redundancy you were sent, and do you have your T&C's of employment - these should state whether you are expected to work after being given notice of redundancy, or whether the company will pay you in lieu of notice. Your original post suggests that they would pay you in lieu of notice; in other words, rather than tell you that you will be redundant in 30 days time and expect you to continue to work until your last day, they will make you redundant now, and pay you for 30 days.

 

Your T&Cs should state when and how you will be paid, and, iirc, if they state that you will be paid on the 20th of each month by BACS, then (iirc) you can reasonably expect to be paid your redundancy money according to that payment cycle.

[woad]

You posted as I was composing a reply. Your letter shows that he company did not expect you to attend notice, and were effectively paying you in lieu.

 

Write back refering them to their own letter. State what has been paid to you, what you have calculated is still outstanding, and when you expect it to be paid by and how.

[Strageway]

You posted as I was composing a reply. Your letter shows that he company did not expect you to attend notice, and were effectively paying you in lieu.

 

Write back refering them to their own letter. State what has been paid to you, what you have calculated is still outstanding, and when you expect it to be paid by and how.

 

Cool, So I was right then?

 

Just want to make sure before I fire off my request as I dont want to do it to later find out I was wrong and look a idiot.

 

Can anyone help me with what I should say in the letter? Im not very good at things like this as you can probably tell.

 

Thank you

[Emmzzi]

It's not 100% clear cut as while it says you are not expected to work neither does it say you may or may not work elsewhere. Balance of probability I'd say you should be paid.

 

So write a letter of query but don't go quoting rights and legalities which aren't clear cut.

[Strageway]

Thanks for the reply.

 

So I will send a letter pointing out his own words on the letter and ill also remind him of what he said to me saying he dont mind if I find a new job before and that I could use the time off to find a new job!

 

What would be the next course of action if he ignores it or still refuses to pay me?

[Emmzzi]

you debate if the possible reward is worth the small claims court costs when weighing up the risk of losing.

[Strageway]

cant this be taken down the tribunal route?

[Emmzzi]

it can but that's more expensive than using eg moneyclaimonline, so I am not sure why you would

[woad]

As I understand it, unless your terms of employment expressly forbid one from working elsewhere, then one is perfectly free to find and undertake other work. No employee can be reasonably expected to sit at home and do nothing whilst on 'gardening leave' when made redundant.

[Strageway]

Ow I thought it was free! I didnt know you had to pay to take your employer to one!

 

So if I was dismissed from a job and it was done illigaly and I needed to take them to an tribunal it would cost me money?

 

Back to subject, The amount he owes me is around £300 so probably not worth it! I find it completely disgusting that employers get away with so much but claim innocence but the minute an employee steps slightly out of line they come down on you like a ton of bricks and seem to have all the power!

 

So,

 

Im going to write to him and say the following.

 

To the director,

 

I am writing today to request the money outstanding to me, Which comes to a total of £xxx

 

I response to your email regarding the reason you have only paid me upto the 13th of January, I would like to point out that it was you who said I didnt need to work my notice and that I could use my 4 weeks notice to find a new job. You also stated I would be paid up to and including my termination date which was the 20th of January.

 

You sent me a letter confirming all of this, which I still have.

 

You also missed a days annual leave on my final pay so I kindly ask that this be paid the same time as the missing 4 days wage.

 

I would like to receive my payment via a cheque or bank transfer at your earliest convenience.

 

I have attached a copy of the letter you sent me for your convenience.

 

I eagerly await your response.

 

I know this is badly written as im usless at stuff like this so I would really appreciate if someone could help me with it.

[woad]

"Your Ref:

My Ref:

To

 

Date

 

I am writing to formally request the outstanding monies owed to me following termination of my employment; £xxx

 

To date, I have received £xxx, which reflects payment only to January 13th 2014 and one days' holiday.

 

I draw your attention to your letter of , giving my notice of my redundancy, which stated that I would be:

* paid until the 20th January 2014 in lieu of notice

* be paid pro-rata in lieu of outstanding holiday entitlement - x days at £xx/day

* would not be expected to attend my place of employment during my notice period and was free to seek alternative employment

 

These terms were verbally confirmed by you during our conversation on

 

I calculate that the sum outstanding is £xxx, comprising one weeks salay (£xxx) and one day's holiday entitlement (£xx)

 

Please make arrangements to have my outstanding remuneration paid via BACS transfer or by company cheque.

 

On a personal note, I thank-you again for the experience I gained whilst in your employment, and I wish xyz company the very best going forwards

 

Yours faithfully

 

"