Will I get sanctioned?

[umpteenthtime]

Thanks Mr. P, there is something else that is confusing me. Because I missed the 2nd Work Programme appointment due to illness, would that also count as a sanctioning offense even though I notified them before the appointment that I would not be attending due to illness? Every letter Ive had from the WP says "if you are unable to attend for any reason or are running late, please call our office as soon as possible" so because I notified them surely that means I am not in trouble for this missed appointment?

[umpteenthtime]

Does anyone know if this is correct, it was posted last month and comment number 3 gives the answer.

[antone]

Does anyone know if this is correct, it was posted last month and comment number 3 gives the answer.

 

Isn't that what I just said?

[umpteenthtime]

Isn't that what I just said?

 

Yes, I just wondered if anyone can confirm it but if you are pretty sure, it echoes this other person too.

[antone]

It's not strictly relevant, since I can't see any benefit (hah) to you in signing off even if you are sanctioned, but yes, the sanction clock continues to tick even if you're not claiming. So if you are sanctioned for four weeks, sign off that day, and then sign back on five weeks later, you'll have "served" your sanction. It doesn't sit waiting for you until the next time you make a linked claim.

 

In most cases, it makes no sense to sign off simply because you receive a sanction, though, unless you have sufficient savings to live off during the sanction period and want a break from dealing with the hassle.

[umpteenthtime]

I was just looking at all my options as I didnt know how things worked and because I am also applying for temp work, this was also my worry for when the temp work ended and I had to sign back on. Thanks for the info everyone, appreciate all your help very much. I will let everyone know how tomorrow goes when I ask for that sick note

[Mr.P]

Are sanctions deferred now? That's a new one. It always used to be the case that a sanction applied from the date it was imposed and ran for (say) four weeks whether or not you were claiming JSA during that period. Do they now suspend the sanction and re-impose any remaining period if a linking claim is made?

 

A few years back (before this new regime came in to force), I had a doubt raised after I had signed off. The DWP sent out the usual "good reason" letter to which I responded that the doubt was nothing more than a vindictive action on the part of the provider concerned. The DWP response was "we will hold it on file for 13 weeks for consideration should you reclaim within that period". National policy or just a DM on a power trip, I don't know.

[umpteenthtime]

UPDATE:

 

I went to see my GP today for back-dated sick note - he wouldnt give me one, told me it was against the law as I had not seen or spoke to anyone at the surgery about this illness. He got a nurse to type out a letter (which he signed) which I really dont think will work as it doesnt confirm anything. Here is what the letter says:

 

"X is a patient at our GP practice, She received a letter from you dated 15/01/14 re the work programme which she was enrolled on. X missed this appointment with you as she stated that she has been unwell. X stated that she has had a flu like illness exacerbating her underlying asthma symptoms.

 

X received a letter from you regarding non attendance and has been told that her benefits may be affected.

 

I hope you will look kindly upon the situation in view of the fact that X has missed her initial appointment with you, she has another appointment for the work programme on Thursday 23/01/14 which she will definitely be attending"

 

What do you all think? Will this work or will it go do down like a lead balloon like I think it will? I will see what you all think before I fill in the form and send this off to the lovely decision makers.

Edited January 20, 2014 by umpteenthtime

[dch76]

Sorry to hear you didn't get a sick note :/ I wish I could be more help, but haven't a clue about sanctions so all I can do is wish you luck and hope it is enough. Hope someone here can help you.

[Beatrice Bee]

In your post #15 above you say "I signed on 10th January three days after the missed app".

Do you mean the start date of your JSA claim is 10th January?

Can anyone quote the relevant section from the Work Programme Provider Guidance to see if people have to attend Work Programme appointments while they are not claiming JSA?

Got away with not calling my GP surgery on the day of my missed app by saying we do not have to call the GP in my country when we are sick: we either go in or see them later when well enough to go in to get a sick note. Sorry to hear that you had no luck today.

[umpteenthtime]

Thank you dch and Beatrice.

 

I meant I was unable to try and get a 14 day sick period to cover the 2 missed appointments because I had one of my fortnightly signing days during this time.

 

The GP told me I should have called or made an appointment but when you are ill, the last thing you are able to do is talk on the phone or get to the GP's office and the average wait time to see our GP is about a week so why would I make an appointment for a weeks time when Id prob be better by then. My GP could have gave me a sick note, who would have found out really so really upset he chose not to!

[Beatrice Bee]

It appears that they want us to hand in or post our filled in JSA28 form on the first day of our illness. Suppose a family member can drop it at the JCP if you too ill to leave the house.

 

Please see below the relevant legislation about work search requirements in case of short periods of illness.

 

Your mum spoke to your Work Programme Provider on the day of your 2nd missed app. You do not mention either of you calling the GP that day to notify him of your illness due to the flu jab.

 

If you call your Work Programme provider on the day of your app before your interview to notify them that you can not make it, they have the discretion to reschedule the app without sending a WP08 form to the JCP to notify them about your missed app in which case you do not get a letter from JCP asking for a good cause.

 

Two missed apps means a three-month sanction. Just give the decision maker the true course of events and ask for his discretion considering your medical condition and your record of good attendence during the past 12 months. Say you were ill and was not thinking that you need to call your GP on the day to provide a sick note to your Work Programme Provider. You were not that ill that you would have needed to consult a GP over the phone: you had your medication to deal with the issue. Declare to the decision maker that you were ill and the fact that GP would not issue a backdated sick note without him being consulted on the day of the illness.

 

Any prescription packaging with your name and the date on it could be sent in with the good cause letter to show that you were taking medication during the time of the missed apps. Even if it is dated December / November 2013.

[umpteenthtime]

Thanks Beatrice, you make some really great points and thanks for all your help on this matter.

 

When I spoke to my WP advisor on the phone when she called me on Thursday, I think I can recall her saying she will have to notify the jobcenter of my first missed appointment - so Im hoping she wont tell them about the one I have just missed as I did notify them like the WP letter says I should. Im really hoping that if I get a sanction at all that it is just a 1 month one because the 3 month one will be hell but I hope the GP's letter will be ok.

 

Can I ask, how long does it take them to make a decision? When should I expect to hear and does the time differ if they sanction me or not (like would I hear back quicker if they sanction me)?

[Beatrice Bee]

Posted my good cause letter first class on 12th November and their letter is dated 20th November. The money was put through with an on the day payment on 20th November after I called them to ask what's happening. You got your mum and family in the UK so you will be all right. Hardship payment is recoverable which means what they pay you now later on they deduct from your JSA. If you are vulnerable, you can claim hardship from the first day of the sanction [eg ill or pregnant], otherwise it is only after 2 weeks.

 

By posting our issues here we bring awareness about what to look out for so everyone please post your questions or your stories to help others if you wish. Thank you.

[umpteenthtime]

Hi again - I have an update for you all. A few days after I sent off my GP's letter, I got another "doubt" letter asking me to explain why I missed the 2nd appointment. I told them that I did contact the work programme the day before my appointment and the lady said it was fine and she would sort that out the next morning and I told them that I did contact them to explain I would not be attending my appointment etc etc Today I got a letter which is a combo of how my JSA will go up one whole pound in April and how a doubt no longer applies. To quote:

 

We have looked at your claim again following a recent change.

 

From 13 April 2013 your JSA will be £71.70 a week.

 

This is because we recently told you that a decision would be made about a doubt:

 

• on whether you failed to comply with the requirements of the scheme to which you have been referred. We have no decided that this doubt no longer applies.
  

 

This is because of:

 

a change in the rates of Social Security benefits.

 

From 12 April 2014 your allowence will be £72.40 a week.

 

This is because:

 

a change in the rates of SS benefits.

Why does it say 2013 rather than 2014? and why does it talk like something has happened to my benefits when I have not missed a payment nor have I been paid less? Quite confused right now. Is this letter covering 1 doubt or the 2 doubts do you think?

[antone]

 

Why does it say 2013 rather than 2014? and why does it talk like something has happened to my benefits when I have not missed a payment nor have I been paid less? Quite confused right now. Is this letter covering 1 doubt or the 2 doubts do you think?

 

It's a computer generated letter, and they have a tendency to be garbled. I guess the software that produces them isn't very well-written. They are produced whenever a processor enters a decision onto the system - in this case, the decision was that you were not to be sanctioned.

 

Anyhow, the 2013 date will be the last date there was a change in your entitlement. It's not clear whether this refers to one or both doubts. If I was entering two decisions at once, I'd probably only send one letter, but there's no way to be sure.

[Beatrice Bee]

For the 2nd doubt to be cleared, I would get an email or a written statement from whoever re-arranged the missed interview for me saying "BB called in advance to cancel the app because of ill health. App was re-arranged and BB attended".

 

He said, she said [over the phone] may not stand.

 

Do you want to be really sweet and friendly with your adviser and get the above statement done ASAP to post it first class to the DM? Of course if you already posted a sick note to cover it, you will be fine.

 

Happy to see someone up here who did not get sanctioned.

[umpteenthtime]

Thanks for your replies. I guess I will have to wait and see if I get another letter like this or not (or a "you have been sanctioned for X amount of weeks) letter.

 

Beatrice, I have already sent in my explanation of the 2nd doubt, I sent it over a week ago. I stated that no appointment was re-arranged as the lady I spoke to took a message and my NI number and whether she never passed on the message or forgot to re-arrange the appointment the next morning I am unsure but I put dates, telephone numbers and names I spoke to - I could provide telephone bills if needed to prove I spoke to 2 different people regarding this. I stated in my reply to the doubt that all appointment letters I received stated I could cancel for ANY reason as long as I gave notice - I did and if someone failed to pass on my message or forgot to re-make the appointment, that was not my fault.

[Beatrice Bee]

If you sent it over a week ago and it was first class post, it may be that you got cleared for both missed apps.

[umpteenthtime]

Yes, 1st class recorded delivery. I truly hope so but will be shocked if that is the case

[umpteenthtime]

Last update:

 

Received another letter, exactly the same as the last, so I guess I'm cleared of the 2 doubts. Very surprised as I was expecting at least 1 sanction. Huzzah! Thanks everyone for your help, its been invaluable!