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Best Course of Action - Outstanding Debt


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Hi All,

 

I am new to the site but have been looking around the various forums to try and gather some info.

 

back in 2007 we bought a new house then

 

around 2008/2009 I had to take a reduce salary in order to keep my current position.

 

With the increase in mortgage payments and reduced salary

this meant that I was unable to keep up with my credit agreements.

 

Originally I owed around £35k

however after a round 4-5 years I am down to £13k.

I have agreements with all my creditors and have met the payments every month since the problem occurred.

 

I will list the details below:

 

Lloyds Load £4569 Pay Lloyds direct

Defaulted 15/06/10

Pay £185 per month

 

Lloyds Credit Card £880 Pay Lloyds direct

Defaulted 29/11/2010

Pay £80 per month

 

HBOS Credit Card £3324 DCA Blair, Oliver Scott

Defaulted 14/04/2009

Pay £65 per month

 

Esure Loan £2150 DCA Blair, Oliver Scott

Defaulted 30/01/2009

Pay £45 per month

 

MBNA Card £1000 DCA Idem Servicing

No Default

Pay £50 per month

 

MBNA Card £1000 DCA Idem Servicing

No Default

Pay £50 per month

 

I am currently paying £500 per month to try and clear my debts and should be clear in around 26 months.

 

my first question is

would it be worth sending a CCA request to any of these companies?

 

Secondly some of the defaults are due to be removed early 2015.

Will this remove the payment history along with the default account

or will it still remain an open account (minus the default) as debt will still be owed.

 

Thanks in advance

 

DJ

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not doing to bad to date then, but it must be a struggle.

 

firstly..defaulted debts.

 

regardless of if you pay a defaulted debt or not:

the whole account will VANISH on the defaults 6th birthday..never to return

to your CRa file.

 

obv that does not mean you don't owe the debt mind!

 

you don't indicate the age of theses accounts.

it could well be in your interest to CCA request them

esp if they are prior to apr 2007?

 

as for any that are OWNED by a DCA

that's certainly a very useful idea!

 

the original creditors wont usually sell a large debt

unless theres something amiss with it & it's balance etc.

 

have you investigated reclaiming yet?

things like PPI & PENALTY charges [late/over/letter/dd reject]

are all fair game to reclaim.

 

but you'll need all the statements via an SAR.

 

where you've sev debts from the same OC - only one sar is needed.

 

as for reducing payments.

ideally for YOUR task it might be an idea to do an I&E sheet

and then pay each creditor a reduced pro-rata % of your available spare income.

 

however, get all the info first

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi dx and thank you for your assistance.

 

Is there an easy way to source the start date of the debt without trawling through paperwork which I may not have?

 

Will the start date be on my credit report or do I need to contact the OC?

I suspect a couple may be pre 07 so as you say might be worth a CCA being sent off.

 

I haven't checked the PPI etc as to my knowledge I never took out PPI insurance

although as you say it might be worth a double check via the SAR method.

 

With respect to sending off the SAR to the OC if I have two different account numbers with say MBNA (one Virgin and one MBNA) is one SAR still required?

 

My wife and I are certainly in a better position than a few years ago and I can almost see the end in sight now.

The monthly amount is affordable but if I can challenge the DCA legality to get them removed

then this would be a bonus.

Any money in my pocket is better than somebody else's IMO.

 

 

Thanks

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removed no, YOU can rarely do that.

 

not owed poss. outcome but info is the key

 

you only need one SAR per creditor so on MBNA you have it correct.

 

you cra file [look at noddle they are good on old data]

should tell you inception dates

 

not saying you have a miracle cure here by far

 

but NEVER trust a dca

 

dx

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Dx100

 

 

If I send a CCA request to MBNA for the two accounts I currently hold with them

this allows them 12+2 days to come up with the true and original documents of the CCA?

 

Lets assume that nothing appears within the allotted time frame then I am quite within my rights to stop my monthly payment until the correct paperwork appears,

even though I have acknowledged the debt by making monthly payments over the last 4/5 years?

 

assuming no paperwork arrives by the time the default is due to be removed in early 2015

and no payments have been made up until this date.

 

Will the entire debt be removed from my credit file and not show to other creditors even when there is actual monies owed?

 

The debt will physically exist although it doesn't appear on my credit file

and I am making no further payments towards reducing the debt.

 

Then after six years from my last acknowledgement of payment the account becomes SB assuming the paperwork doesn't appear in that time frame?

 

 

DJ

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You have said that there is no default for mbna. Could they have defaulted in 2007 and hence have fallen off.

 

There is a lot more to checking the validity of a debt than a cca request although that is a good place to start.

 

Do you have the original agreements , default notices etc etc.

if you do your position could be much stronger.

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Hi Annie,

 

 

To my knowledge MBNA never issued a default against these accounts although I'm not sure why. TBH out of all my creditors they were the most helpful so I agreed to their minimum monthly figure which I suspect may have been close to the actual monthly payment if the account was run normally with interest etc. I have been checking my credit report for over two years and never noticed a default for these accounts.

 

 

I suspect I may have some of the original paperwork from the OC when I took out the loans/cards. I know I have the one for the Esure loan and at first glance it appears to be in order inline with the CCA 1974 regulations. As for all the other I couldn't actually remember when I signed up for some of the cards, may have been online applications.

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Well I would start with cca requests and take it from there.

Other things to look at are Default notices, are they accurate. This is especially useful if the debt has been sold.

 

Online applications prior to 2005 still need a written signed document and even online applications need a digital signature tick boxor whatever. I would think they would also need to keep the ip address .

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Thanks Annie,

 

 

I have started to piece together the CCA requested for the various companies and will get them sent off within the next week or so. Having had a quick look through my paperwork I have a loan agreement from Esure which appears to have all the relevant data however this copy isn't signed by myself. How is the following CCA letter

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

Re:- Account/Reference Number 1234567890

With reference to the above agreement, I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond with you further on this matter.

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement, under the legislation contained within s.78 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974.

2. A full statement of account.

3. A signed true copy of the deed of assignment of the above referenced agreement that you allege exists.

4. A copy of any other documents referred to in the agreement.

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

I understand that under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79), I am entitled to receive a copy of our credit agreement on request. I enclose a payment of £1.00 which represents the fee payable under the Consumer Credit Act. Please note that under no circumstances should this payment be set aside any alleged debt. If you are unable to supply the documentation requested, this fee should be returned.

I understand a copy of our credit agreement should be supplied within 12 working days.

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

 

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Hi Dx100

 

 

If I send a CCA request to MBNA for the two accounts I currently hold with them

this allows them 12+2 days to come up with the true and original documents of the CCA? - or a recon

Lets assume that nothing appears within the allotted time frame

then I am quite within my rights to stop my monthly payment until the correct paperwork appears,

even though I have acknowledged the debt by making monthly payments over the last 4/5 years? - yes

assuming no paperwork arrives by the time the default is due to be removed in early 2015

and no payments have been made up until this date.

Will the entire debt be removed from my credit file and not show to other creditors even when there is actual monies owed? - paid or not a debt will VANISH from cra files on the defaults 6th birthday - never to return

 

The debt will physically exist although it doesn't appear on my credit file

and I am making no further payments towards reducing the debt.

Then after six years from my last acknowledgement of payment the account becomes SB assuming the paperwork doesn't appear in that time frame?

 

makes no odds to the SB date if they find the paperwork or not

 

 

DJ

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I would use this

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387435-CCA-Request-Consumer-Credit-Act-1974&p=4384118#post4384118

 

it is from the library. You are only confusing the issue by asking for a Deed of assignment. Keep it simple and to the point then they have no excuse not to reply.

 

The bit about the Deed really is irrelevant at this point but should you ever get a LBA you can ask for it although they will try to avoid giving it to you

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CCA request

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi All,

 

 

Had my first CCA response today from Halifax (BOS) credit card.

 

They have apparently included a reconstituted copy of the original agreement

although not sure if this is enforceable or not.

 

They state that this satisfies their obligation under section 78 and will have no further response with me.

 

The document could just have been printed out and added my name and address to the top of the agreement.

 

They did state that they were unable to provide a signed copy of the original agreement and this will be sent as soon as they have it available.

 

Any help would be welcome?

 

The rest have until the end of next week until their deadline for response.

 

 

DJ

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what date did you open this ac? does it contain your correct address at time of application?

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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go start a thread in the HBOS bank forum off the

top main forum tab

 

that way as each cca comes in

you'll have a thread on the debt

it'll get mighty confusing to do them all on one thread

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Unfortunately, regardless of the enforceability of any agreement, it is extremely unlikely the record will be removed from your CRA files until 6 years from the default date (your last will go 29/11/2016). Also the money is still owed.

 

More importantly, because MBNA have not defaulted you, the adverse information will appear on your CRA files until 6 years from when you settle with them - so even if you agree a F&F today, it will be there for another 6 years so will impact your ability to borrow until at least 2020.

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as any marker reaches 6 yrs it will drop off the history of the debt

 

if there are no indicators to a problem in the summary line of an account

then lenders will not know markers are still there.

 

most creditors inc those offering mortgages use automatic systems

to interrogate your cra file that don't drill through the payment history

unless the above occurs.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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both accounts are run through Idem servicing

but as far as I can remember from my last cra check they just showed green "0".

 

I think one showed a orange "1" in the last 12 months

but I challenged them on this as I have not missed a payment in the last 5 years.

 

I will need to recheck my cra file in few weeks to see. What is an AP marker?

 

I'm happy for them to stay on there as there isn't any negative markers.

 

My other accounts don't look quite as good but all these have been defaulted and are due to start coming off early next year.

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user2001

 

 

Just checked my cra file via noddle and I'm pleased I did.

 

There is an entry for Marlin Financial Services £4800 and increasing every month.

 

I wrote to this company last year explaining that the debt wasn't in my name and I had no knowledge of the debt.

 

I contacted Yorkshire Bank and Marlin to get them to remove the data from my cra report.

 

Received a letter from YB saying that the entries would be removed.

 

TBH I have only been checking Experian up to now but have also raised a complaint with Noddle.

 

Looks like I need to send another letter!

 

Just out of interest on the noddle report there are some OK, DM, AR and BB markers.

Could you explain what these refer to?

 

I have only checked Experian and now Noddle.

 

Should I check Equifax as well?

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These are the monthly status codes reported to callcredit (Noddle) by each creditor to reflect how the account has been managed.

 

OK = account up to date (you have made the minimum contractual payment)

DM = DMP? The new ICO guidelines for 2014 state that accounts under a DMP must be reflected as such so I presume this is the new marker (its not a good thing really if you intend to get further credit)

AR = Arrangement to Pay (this is the old code you would usually get on a DMP account - where you have made an agreement to pay what you can afford on a pro-rata basis, this would be below the minimum contractual payment)

BB = Account is in sustained / long-term arrears (more than 3 months since your last minimum contractual payment)

 

Yes I would check equifax - but I would also only bother with the £2 statutory report as it will tell you all you need without the bells & whistles

 

Its worth checking all three CRAs as not all creditors report to all three - and also they are unlikely to check all 3 when doing a credit search.

 

{Edit - as a side point, I would find the email address of the CEO of YB and email a formal complaint to him/her quoting the date of the letter from them agreeing to remove the adverse data and requesting compensation for the damage it is doing your credit file while it persists. I would expect a £100 gesture of good will .... not too shabby)

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