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1) My 'Actions for getting employment" doesn't stipulate a number of jobs to apply for per week (which is odd, when I claimed before I had to apply for 2). Obviously I don't want to display every single job I apply for (which would risk creating a baseline figure), but what is the minimum number that an Advisor needs to see in order to sanction me (for insufficient applications)?

 

 

2) They also included 'log into my UJM account daily' - I have NOT ticked the box that allows the DWP to view the jobs I've applied for, BUT can they still see how often I've logged in?

 

Ta

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1)1) [...]but what is the minimum number that an Advisor needs to see in order to sanction me (for insufficient applications)?

 

 

2) They also included 'log into my UJM account daily' [...] BUT can they still see how often I've logged in?

 

1) I'd suggest at a minimum, three job applications per week, aiming for five if you can find sufficient suitable vacancies. Pad out the diary with everything else that you do, e.g.:

 

  • Look at vacancies on xxxx web site.
  • Edit CV.
  • Check paper for vacancies
  • As friend about jobs at his/her place of work.

Day two:

 

  • Check agency web site yyyy.com for work.
  • Look through trade journal.
  • Contact firm.co.uk via web site

Day three:

 

  • Check local papers
  • Write spec letter.
  • Apply for vacancy:
  • Ask ex-employer about jobs.

 

Include everything you do so that they don't have opportunity to raise a doubt - Not always easy I know, but I used to trawl the web doing "research", and every time I came across a commercial website, I'd click on the "work for us" link (even if the company was overseas). This would be recorded as "contact Co. via web site".

 

2) They could see how often you had logged in, but it would involve data mining of the web logs at their end - A considerable amount of data, and not worth the effort. You can get an app that automates the searches and applies for vacancies that match your search parameters. I'd suggest giving it a spin and using the automated searches & applications in your job search log. Don't tell them that it was automated though...


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2) They could see how often you had logged in, but it would involve data mining of the web logs at their end - A considerable amount of data, and not worth the effort. You can get an app that automates the searches and applies for vacancies that match your search parameters. I'd suggest giving it a spin and using the automated searches & applications in your job search log. Don't tell them that it was automated though...

 

This is one aspect of UJ I am deeply suspicious of; just exactly how much of your 'activity' they can actually see. Can they see all the apparently suitable vacancies you looked at but didn't apply for, for example? I wouldn't want that (which is why I only ever search UJ without logging in).

 

My own JSA only says I have to 'contact' 5 employers a week and 'check' UJ 5 times a week. Wide-open to interpretation, as if I merely phoned 5 employers to ask if they had any jobs going, and did 5 unlogged-in brief searches of UJ then I'm technically satisfying the JSA requirements. Naturally I don't do this and give them solid evidence of applications - and always more than they ask for.

 

If you haven't already, it's well worth uploading a cv to Reed.co.uk and CV-Library.co.uk sites, as they'll send decent vacancies directly to your normal email. I get at least 10-15 per week from them so this more than satisfies my JSA with absolutely no effort from me - one click on the 'apply' button and you'll get an automatic acknowledgement email sent to you every time, which you can show the JC as hard evidence.

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On the subject of uploaded CVs.... A little thought last night: I have the ability to convert text to an image and save it as a PDF. This can generate a pretty large file and it would be difficult for an automated system to scan and extract key words. If I did produce a CV as an embedded image and upload it to this UJM site, would anyone notice that the keyword logging failed I wonder....?

 

If I need to send one to an agency, it would certainly be something I would consider, if for no other reason than it makes it difficult to edit the text.


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My adviser who has no people skills is obsessed with UJM and has admitted they can see the jobs you choose not to apply for

She claims the jobcentre needs this info

I have no idea why as you could look at a lot of unsuitable jobs, eg admin on UJM brings up care work and teaching jobs

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1) I'd suggest at a minimum, three job applications per week, aiming for five if you can find sufficient suitable vacancies. Pad out the diary with everything else that you do, e.g.:

 

 

  • Look at vacancies on xxxx web site.
  • Edit CV.
  • Check paper for vacancies
  • As friend about jobs at his/her place of work.

 

Day two:

 

 

  • Check agency web site yyyy.com for work.
  • Look through trade journal.
  • Contact firm.co.uk via web site

 

Day three:

 

 

  • Check local papers
  • Write spec letter.
  • Apply for vacancy:
  • Ask ex-employer about jobs.

 

 

Include everything you do so that they don't have opportunity to raise a doubt - Not always easy I know, but I used to trawl the web doing "research", and every time I came across a commercial website, I'd click on the "work for us" link (even if the company was overseas). This would be recorded as "contact Co. via web site".

 

 

 

I'd say that's a lot to put down. I've pretty much got the same few tasks (asking friends/logging into UJM) as requlars that go into the booklet, then I'll just give them a snapshot of the jobs I've applied for.

 

2) They could see how often you had logged in, but it would involve data mining of the web logs at their end - A considerable amount of data, and not worth the effort.

 

That's actually something I know a bit about - and while Govt IT is generally shambolic, I can tell you they were monitoring staff web usage in the 2000's. I could go into detail about what their potential is, but I'm sure this page is being read by DWP stooges so I'm not giving them any ideas. (Hey DWP snoops, stick your internal targets up yours ha!!!)

 

You can get an app that automates the searches and applies for vacancies that match your search parameters. I'd suggest giving it a spin and using the automated searches & applications in your job search log. Don't tell them that it was automated though...

 

 

Sweet!! You have it's name you can post/pm to me??

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I'd say that's a lot to put down. I've pretty much got the same few tasks (asking friends/logging into UJM) as requlars that go into the booklet, then I'll just give them a snapshot of the jobs I've applied for.

 

Sweet!! You have it's name you can post/pm to me??

 

The idea is to include everything, even the little bits of trivia. All jobs, all searches, all papers, and every single spec letter/cold call - Break the searches down in to bite sized chunks and list each web site as a separate search. Overwhelm the adviser with information so that he/she has no grounds for raising a doubt.

 

Automated UJM app: http://automation.strikenow.org.uk/


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My adviser who has no people skills is obsessed with UJM and has admitted they can see the jobs you choose not to apply for

She claims the jobcentre needs this info

I have no idea why as you could look at a lot of unsuitable jobs, eg admin on UJM brings up care work and teaching jobs

 

So apparently they CAN see every page you've looked at. I always thought they could - if I'd been on the DWP team creating the parameters of the site this is one of the first things I'd want to be able to do, to catch out people who looked at an apparently suitable job vacancy (let's ignore the fact it might be too far away, poorly paid, etc) and then failed to apply for it. Sanction heaven. It wouldn't matter how many you did apply for, it's the ones you appear to have refused that will catch you out.

 

Of course they need the info - it will help raise thousands of doubts about people's jobsearching.

 

In view of this, best to use UJ without being logged in, then when you're certain you want to actually apply for a job, log in and do it 'officially' if you must.

 

Mr P - that idea of presenting your CV as an unsearchable, uneditable image is a good 'un! :)

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The idea is to include everything, even the little bits of trivia. All jobs, all searches, all papers, and every single spec letter/cold call - Break the searches down in to bite sized chunks and list each web site as a separate search. Overwhelm the adviser with information so that he/she has no grounds for raising a doubt.

 

Trouble with micro-detailing each of the 20-30 listings I send my cv off to per week is, it then sets a baseline that my (atypically fastidious) Advisor will expect, both in number of applications and depth of detail about them. It could well take a couple of hours, 1 at least, just to sift through my sent items and acknowledgements to list EVERY detail about EVERY job. It would just take one off week, with a few days off because of a cold/hangover/whatever, they'll know you didn't apply for sweet FA that Monday unlike every single Monday previously, bingo one 'Doubt' raised for the internal targets.

 

 

I used to give just serial numbers, date applied, and then if pressed (which I wasn't) just remind them of the website I used, for just TWO jobs. I'll double that, Far better to appease them with a few jobs applied for, and risk having them one day ask offhand, "Why do you only show x no. of jobs per week", and reply "I've got proof of the others, if you want to take it there?", rather than blow 90 minutes of my time EVERY week writing a full-blown analysis for those reprobates.

 

 

 

Much appreciated!!!

Edited by Jaybee in CF

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at the end of the day you are under no obligation to give your advisor access to your UJM account.

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I just logged into my UJ account (only the second time I've done it) and noticed there's a 'Recommended Jobs' bit where UJ throws up some vacancies it thinks are suitable..there's also an 'Apply' button next to each vacancy too.

 

..all of which can no doubt be seen by the JC advisor next time they check your account. Even now I can hear them saying 'Why didn't you apply for those suggested jobs?'. As the robot in 'Lost In Space' was always saying.. 'Danger! Danger!' :)

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It is a pain enough to log onto a useless website once a week.

The Jobcentre does not need to know that you have a laptop at home.

In the library you only get one hour per day. I would say I have no money for net shop and can not reserve one hour Mon-Fri each day in the library because it is full of students.

 

The above worked when I negotiated one log in per week and the adviser did not object.

You or the adviser can renegotiate your Jobseeker's Agreement any day. He/she will print off a copy to sign and date with an additional "Treat as made on: " date which is the start date of the claim.

So if anything bothers you about your actions or agreement, sell it in a positive fashion and they supposed to update your agreement for you.

 

A guy who posted up here today got sanctioned after a few weeks of claiming because he failed to log in daily: JCP did not care it was Xmas Day he did not log in so 7 days a week log in is too much. He apparently allowed access to DWP because the staff produced print outs of his account to justify the sanction one way or another.

 

You definitely do not have computer at home. JCP is closed at the weekend [internet access devices there, not that I ever seen any].

 

Do not tick the box in your Universal Jobmatch account to allow DWP access to it. Universal Jobmatch Toolkit, Chapter 3 says you do not have to and they can not mandate you, even if they give you a letter to mandate you.

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Re my earlier post about 'Recommended Jobs' appearing on your UJ account, this is what the FAQ on UJ says about them;

 

Q: How do I delete a recommended job?

A: Recommended jobs are based on the contents of your account and profile. They cannot be deleted.

 

So they're on for good, ready for the prying eyes of an advisor, like landmines waiting to be stepped on. Beware!

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Hi all,

 

 

1) UJM use: I understand the JC can mandate that you create a profile and upload a cv, BUT not that you actually use it for searches/applications. Is this still the case? (I'm not worried about an incorrect sanction as I have sufficient funds to tide me over in the meantime)

 

 

2) Profile/CV : I have created a profile (ticking 'Prefer Not to Say' to all the intrusive questions), but is there any way I can obfuscate the CV, or any info I should strip out? I read a few suggestions to screenshot the whole thing into a single JPG but I also know there's software that can scan image files for txt;

 

 

3) Not a UJM question - At my first meeting the advisor put me on a 13-week protected status, ie as I'm a qualified professional in my field I am exempt from looking for any non-related kind of work ie paper-rounds or whatever, what is the JC word for this exemption? (So I can ask next signing day)

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

JB

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1st question

 

yes you don't need to use ujm for job search they can't force you to use it as the job centre guidelines you can use anything to prove your job search and think they can mandate you to upload cv stuff like that but that is all they can do as far as i know.

 

not sure about question 2 or question 3

 

someone will help you with profile/cv question

 

as for question 3 i haven't heard of 13-week protected status so can't really give you an answer.

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Regarding 1) all the JC can do is to require you to have an 'online presence', which simply means that you have a CV online somewhere which employers can see; a fair request as the internet plays a big part in jobseeking these days so we're all expected to use it.

 

Iin my own case I didn't use UJ but instead registered with Reed and CV-Library jobsites and have uploaded my CV which is sent with any job I click on. The JC will try and get you to use UJ to do this as it's their pet system but as long as your CV is online somewhere then you're fulfilling the same requirement; you have an online CV which can be seen by employers. I find many more jobs anyway through using these other sites so the JC can't argue it's much more effective.

 

Regarding just looking for your own kind of work, I'm sure there's something in the Claimant Commitment guidance that covers this - I recall the adviser mentioning it at my initial CC interview. It is only a temporary thing though, after which you'll be expected to apply for anything of which you're capable, be it dustbin man or astronaut.

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It’s the “Permitted Period” From the start of a claim a Work Coach can decide if it is appropriate to agree a Permitted Period. This allows the claimant to restrict the type of work they are looking for to: employment in their usual occupation; the level of pay they are willing to accept; or both employment in their usual occupation and at the same level of pay they were used to receiving.

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Hi all,

 

 

1) UJM use: I understand the JC can mandate that you create a profile and upload a cv, BUT not that you actually use it for searches/applications. Is this still the case? (I'm not worried about an incorrect sanction as I have sufficient funds to tide me over in the meantime)

 

 

2) Profile/CV : I have created a profile (ticking 'Prefer Not to Say' to all the intrusive questions), but is there any way I can obfuscate the CV, or any info I should strip out? I read a few suggestions to screenshot the whole thing into a single JPG but I also know there's software that can scan image files for txt;

 

 

3) Not a UJM question - At my first meeting the advisor put me on a 13-week protected status, ie as I'm a qualified professional in my field I am exempt from looking for any non-related kind of work ie paper-rounds or whatever, what is the JC word for this exemption? (So I can ask next signing day)

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

JB

1) The first step that Jobcentre advisers will use to encourage you to register on UJM is a chat to discuss the advantages, in their opinion, of doing so.

If you resist then comes the heavy stuff and a Jobseeker's Direction mandating you.

Should you choose to resist, the following could be used to strengthen your argument.

There is no law, clause of a law, statutory instrument, or regulation that requires a claimant to open a Universal Jobmatch (UJ) Account. In fact there is no mention of UJ at all in any legislation.

Section 17 (3) © of the Welfare Reform Act 2012 stipulates a provision that claimants may be required to undertake as part of their work search requirement.

On the strength of this particular clause the DWP caused to be created a website where this could be facilitated. They called this website Universal Jobmatch (UJ).

Built into the design of this website, in addition to facilitating job searches, they caused to be included programmes to facilitate the monitoring and recording of all activity for the purpose of raising doubts about the extent to which claimants did or did not comply with any and all actions that they decided constitutes actively seek employment.

Advisers have been conned into believing that this clause empowers them to insist, by fair means or foul, that claimants must join up to and use UJ.

This is the clause:

17. Work search requirement

(1) In this Part a “work search requirement” is a requirement that a claimant take—

(a) all reasonable action, and

(b) any particular action specified by the Secretary of State,

for the purpose of obtaining paid work (or more paid work or better-paid work).

2) The Secretary of State may under subsection (1)(b) specify the time to be devoted to any particular action.

(3) Action which may be specified under subsection (1)(b) includes in particular—

(a) carrying out work searches;

(b) making applications;

© creating and maintaining an online profile;

(d) registering with an employment agency;

(e) seeking references;

(f) any action prescribed for the purpose in subsection (1).

(4) Regulations may impose limitations on a work search requirement by reference to the work to which it relates; and the Secretary of State may in any particular case specify further such limitations on such a requirement.

(5) A limitation under subsection (4) may in particular be by reference to—

(a) work of a particular nature,

(b) work with a particular level of remuneration,

© work in particular locations, or

(d) work available for a certain number of hours per week or at particular times, and may be indefinite or for a particular period.

 

Since no specific website is stipulated any claimant who wishes to can register with one or more of any of dozens of general employment or recruitment agency sites, there are plenty to choose from. They can then post a CV with profile on the site or sites they choose Thereafter, regular visits to the site, tweaks to profile as and when required, is all that is necessary.

 

The claimant has thus created and is maintaining an online profile as the law requires without even thinking about UJ. Most of those sites also facilitate the instant application for the jobs they carry.

 

Another point to bear in mind is that claimants are required to open a Government Gateway Account before they can register on UJ. There may be legal consequences for any government department who forced its citizens to sign up to an information service against their will, or denied them a state service or benefit if they did not.

 

So, even under a fully fledged Universal Credit CC, far less a JSA/CC, it looks like any request, of any shape or form, to open a UJ account, far less allow access to one, may be ignored by claimants with impunity if they take the trouble to provide for themselves an alternative to UJ of their own choice.

 

 

2) It's your profile and your CV. Insist on retaining control of it. Should you choose to act on 1) then you can forget 2).

 

 

3) It is the usual practice to allow time to find work in one's chosen or preferred line. I'm not sure if there is a particular name for that.

 

 

 

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Hi all,

 

 

Coming into my 4month of JSA, got TWO of these interviews, on two consecutive working days - is this likely a prelude to having to come in to do a search for several hours a day??

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

JB

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Hi all,

 

 

Coming into my 4month of JSA, got TWO of these interviews, on two consecutive working days - is this likely a prelude to having to come in to do a search for several hours a day??

 

 

Cheers,

 

 

JB

 

 

Could be getting invited to go on the Work Programme or one of the Help to Work Schemes.

 

 

Either way, be concerned, be very concerned.

 

 

There are plenty of useful posts with information and sound advice on this forum. Do your homework, be ready for them.

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Shouldn't be the Work Programme at only 4 months (unless Jaybee was already in the WP from time on another benefit, or has just left prison, or is very young) but yeah, always worth being wary of these things.


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Could be one is where they check to see if they can "help"

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It was a while back, early 2012 I was last on a wp, had been for about 6 months on/off. JSA then too.

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Could be one is where they check to see if they can "help"

 

"help" in this context could mean getting the OP to sign a new Claimant Commitment. If this is the case, expect additional requirements to be included along with an increase in the number of vacancies to be applied for each week. If a new, more onerous CC is produced, attempt to renegotiate the terms down to one more favourable to your circumstances and resist the pressure to sign.


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A few months back, during a previous claim, my 'Advisor' told me the expectation by the JC nowadays was for us to spend all day looking for work, and proceeded to make a snarky remark about seeing me in the High St quite often, and how unfair it was on JC staff that I should be out in the sun while they have to work....

 

 

Apart from me as a born/bred UK Citizen spending my time where I damn well please, could this successfully be used as grounds for mandating I come in daily to sign instead of weekly?

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