First Great Western FGW Problem

[owenf]

Hi, this is my first post.

 

I was stopped today by a FGW enforcement team as I got off the train at Windsor.

 

The issue is I had used my wife's monthly ticket for the journey from Slough.

I had actually driven from Uxbridge where I work to Slough to meet my wife who was on the train from Paddington;

she had a patient to see in Burnham (she's a physio) so there seemed little point in her completing her usual journey to Windsor

to then drive back so we did a swap;

she took the car,

I took her ticket (with photo ID).

 

We didn't think it would be an issue,

the ticket had been paid for and only one person was doing the journey.

the enforcement officers didn't agree;

they confiscated her ticket (so now she'll have to either buy a new one or dailys until it is returned, if it is returned)

 

we are losing money there and i may be faced with prosecution.

 

They didn't mention a fine so i feel i'm completely in no man's land.

 

The journey to Windsor from Slough costs £2.30,

the idea of a hefty fine and possible criminal record over such a stupid mistake is really scary.

There was no intent to fair dodge, we felt as a couple we'd paid and had a valid ticket.

 

Also one of the enforcement officers said when asked that if i'd had no ticket at all I'd have just been fined…

so to FGW it seems it's worse to have your wife's valid ticket than no ticket at all.

 

Any advice on what I should do would be very much appreciated.

[unclebulgaria67]

Most monthly travel tickets are non transferable, so the person who uses another persons ticket, would be travelling effectively without a ticket. So I would have thought that they should have just issued you with a penalty fare ticket and told you not to use your wifes ticket again.

 

They should really have told you what they were going to do about this at the time, rather than just leave it. Perhaps they will just send your wifes monthly ticket back to her, with a warning to her, not to let other people use it.

 

I am not expert in fare rules, so let others advise you. This is just my commonsense view on it.

[owenf]

Thanks unclebulgaria.

We're both all too aware of that now.

There were eight or nine of the officers there so I feel like they were towing a hard line,

only saying I'd hear back in four weeks.

 

I'm not so worried about me, but my wife is saying she's going to buy a whole new monthly ticket so will effectively be paying twice this month

… seems if they're going by the letter of the law then surely I'm the issue here;

why should she be hit so hard when effectively you could say i took her ticket so it's my problem?

 

Feels like we're being potentially punished twice;

do you or anyone else know if she could claim the dailys back if she bought some whilst they are holding her ticket?

 

The ticket also covered her tube journeys so by taking the ticket FGW are forcing her to use her oyster card;

maybe she should buy individual journeys and claim them back too??

[unclebulgaria67]

Here is a previous thread which should help you. Seems that it is taken seriously.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?299301-Using-someone-else-s-ticket

[dx100uk]

they are not forcing her to do anything. like buy other tickets

 

the bottom lines here is :

she either allowed you to use the ticket [whereby she has never read the terms and conditions, so no excuse there!]

or

you took and used it without her permission [ which is theft] - could get even more serious.......

 

i'd have to rely upon the transport guys for the answer to IF you could reclaim the 'un-used' days

of her ticket if she does get it back...

 

however..less of the bad stuff...

 

IF this is the ONLY time this has happened

then

with all probability you/wife MIGHT get a letter asking for YOUR comments on the issue.

 

your best bet here is to grovel and apologise offering to meet all admin costs and eqiv 'fines'

 

but await the letter.

 

dx

[owenf]

Blimey, that has made me feel a lot worse! So in essence send a cheque and profoundly promise never to do it again and hope for the best!

[owenf]

Thanks DX… I seem to be flying from being okay about this too mass panic… tis definitely the last time I offer to help the Mrs get to a patient quicker!

[dx100uk]

hey we all make mistakes

 

await the letter, IF you two ever get one.

 

OK PITA shes had to pay for another ticket, but, that might well be the end of it.

 

its VERY diff to say.

 

i'd await comments from the transport guys

 

they know their stuff better than us.

 

dx

[owenf]

[you took and used it without her permission [ which is theft] - could get even more serious.......

 

 

dx

 

Do love the idea that I could steal something bought on the joint account so technically half mine already… guess that's not a water tight argument though.

 

Will do as suggested and wait for the letter and be as nice as possible… which might mean muzzling the missus as she was on the warpath when I got home. But then she is the one who has paid FGW £1000s over ten years only for this one mistake to land us in it this deep.

[dx100uk]

IF you get and write a letter

 

I would suggest you browse a few threads here for the type of content you need to include

whatever you do DONT WAFFLE

 

and for pity sake don't make comments like above.!

 

the fact that shes used the train for XXXXyrs and spent XXXX money is no excuse

for not reading the terms and condition & byelaws over all that time.

 

sad fact .. but very important!

 

dx

[owenf]

Duly noted. Was just sounding off on here, can't believe that this has even happened. Am really quite upset.

[BazzaS]

Do love the idea that I could steal something bought on the joint account so technically half mine already… guess that's not a water tight argument though.

 

Will do as suggested and wait for the letter and be as nice as possible… which might mean muzzling the missus as she was on the warpath when I got home. But then she is the one who has paid FGW £1000s over ten years only for this one mistake to land us in it this deep.

 

Thing is the season ticket is the property of the TOC, not your wife, nor you and your wife jointly.

One of the conditions of the season ticket is that it must be given ('delivered up') to an authorised member of rail staff on demand.

So, it matters not (in terms of ownership) which account it was paid for from .

 

Another of the conditions of the card is that it is non-transferable.

 

Case law also exists that establishes that although a fare was previously paid, YOUR fare wasn't paid by the use of your wife's season (the case of Browning & Floyd, where a husband used his wife's season ticket .....)

[Old-CodJA]

[you took and used it without her permission [ which is theft] - could get even more serious.......

dx

 

Do love the idea that I could steal something bought on the joint account so technically half mine already… guess that's not a water tight argument though.

 

Will do as suggested and wait for the letter and be as nice as possible… which might mean muzzling the missus as she was on the warpath when I got home. But then she is the one who has paid FGW £1000s over ten years only for this one mistake to land us in it this deep.

 

 

 

 

You are right, it is not a water tight argument and as others have pointed out most of the issues I shall not go into a long explanation of legal precedents and the various actions that are possible

 

Whilst your wife may have paid for the ticket from a joint account to which you both contribute, the terms of issue of all season tickets make clear that they are only valid for use by the holder named and depicted on the corresponding numbered photo identity card.

 

No, sending them a cheque for the fare is not likely to be accepted

 

You should wait for the letter from the TOC and as soon as you get it you will have the unique reference allocated to your case and who is handling it. You should then write a truthful reply, sticking to facts and expressing remorse and ask if the TOC will consider allowing the matter to be resolved administratively in order to protect your name.

 

They may well say no, but it is the best chance that you have of avoiding a costly penalty imposed by a Court.

[honeybee13]

Hello Owen.

 

I'm sorry to hear you've been landed with this problem. Nothing to add to the advice above, but once you get their letter, assuming you do hear, come back here with a draft letter and we'll help you with it.

 

Or continue asking questions.

 

My best, HB

[Stigy]

Most monthly travel tickets are non transferable, so the person who uses another persons ticket, would be travelling effectively without a ticket. So I would have thought that they should have just issued you with a penalty fare ticket and told you not to use your wifes ticket again.

Unfortunately it's potentially a lot more serious than that, as using another person's ticket points quite easily to fare evasion as long as it's not a Pay as you go Oyster card, which is transferable (would the fare that's gone unpaid ever have been paid if the person wasn't challenged? No, more than likely not). That being the case, it's arguably not appropriate to issue a Penalty Fare in the first place, and progress the matter straight to their prosecutions dept.

[Grotesque]

I'm not sure we'll hear back on this one...?