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Help with UKCPS letters


JHOL56
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Hi, a friend I work with advised me to get in touch over some letters I've received from UKCPS for a supposed parking charge they say I owe, and I hope someone can help me.

 

I went to Leeds to visit my son & daughter-in-law in October 2013 when they were due to become parents. While visiting the hospital the car was parked in a nearby carpark on two successive days, and on each day a ticket was bought and displayed in the car. I still have the ticket as they were left in the cup holder in the car, and show it was paid to Leeds City Council for the day and time the car was there.

 

I didn't think anymore about it until I received some letters from UKCPS, the first dated 15th November, 2013, telling me the car "was observed Without a valid permit or authority and the driver of the vehicle is required tp pay a parking charge which was fixed to the vehicle in respect of the parking of the vehicle on land at BECKETT ST FLORENCE NIGHTINGGALE LS97JC and by so parking he/she agreed to pay the charge of £100 under the terms of a relevant contract displayed on the said land."

 

In another box it says "the reduced charge of £60 has not been paid and the amount due is" (in a seperate box) "£100.00".

 

Is this a real charge? There wasn't any ticket on the car about a parking charge, and as I said above, a ticket was paid and displayed in the car. When I called to query this, I was passed to someone described as a manager who told me there are two carparks side by side, and he claimed the wrong one had been used. There was nothing that I recall saying there were two seperate carparks, and only one ticket machine was obvious, which is the one used to purchase the ticket each day.

 

I got another letter dated 16th December 2013 and a further letter dated 3rd January 2014. The latest letter says I now owe £125! I've hopefully attached the letters I received and would be grateful if someone could advise me what I should do now.

 

Thanks in advance, JH.

Edited by JHOL56
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what dates in October did you park there/ It is important to know this as how you respond depends on the procedures being followed correctly and it may be that UKPCS have shot themselves in the foot by issuing their demand to you.

probably easily brushed off anyway but might as well hit them when they are down.

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Sounds to me like you inadvertently parked in the staff car park, because they use the words "permit". Keep the machine tickets safe, they will help later on at POPLA appeal.

Can't read attached images too small. Don't forget to blank out personal info and any reference numbers.

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JHOL56, looking at Michael Browne's #8 google street. I can see how you thought it was a council car park. There are only 2 signs from what I can see and the boundry on the left is not very well defined, a few scattered rocks.

someone will help later .

No don't pay, get advice and fight.

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I have just spent over an hour zooming in on car park signs. Left and right car parks have Leeds county council signs at entrance. The center car park clearly says Pay and display.

I would get your son in law to photo the signs and put them up on here.

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On the first day we used the carpark on the left and on the second day the middle area. Neither of us thought there were different machines to be used for the different areas, as the signs didn't make it clear. The same machine was used for both visits. I'll see if he can get photo's for me. Thanks, JH.

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On the first day we used the carpark on the left and on the second day the middle area. Neither of us thought there were different machines to be used for the different areas, as the signs didn't make it clear. The same machine was used for both visits. I'll see if he can get photo's for me. Thanks, JH.

That's a good appeal point to use with ukcps, which will get rejected, which would lead to POPLA, where the charge would almost certainly get cancelled with the right wording.

But you're maybe to far down the line for that, but you say 'we' parked? If you name the driver, the clock gets reset and the driver can easily get to the POPLA stage.....

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JOHL56, go to #8, hit the link to google, wait for street view, click once on the right arrow on the road, at the top left rotate the "N" to approx. 10 O'oclock position next hit the + button under the "N" dial. Under the white P on the sign, it clearly states "Pay and Display".

Have a look; Unless I've had one too many Fosters.

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JOHL56, go to #8, hit the link to google, wait for street view, click once on the right arrow on the road, at the top left rotate the "N" to approx. 10 O'oclock position next hit the + button under the "N" dial. Under the white P on the sign, it clearly states "Pay and Display".

Have a look; Unless I've had one too many Fosters.

 

Hi, a ticket was purchased and displayed in the car. The issue appears to be that the ticket was for the council controlled carpark and this is now, apparently, a private carpark for the second visit. This isn't a case of not trying to pay, but that it wasn't clear a different machine should have been used.

 

Is there anything I can do now or am I stuck with having to pay this? Do I have to name the driver as mentioned above, as having read through some of the other pages here it often says not to?

 

Thanks, JH.

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#13 is correct. The signage is not clear at all and I can see how you got the ticket from the wrong pay point. With no fence or wall at the left hand boundary you can walk into the wrong car park.

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Then you appeal sayinmg you paid the prescribed charge and if there was an error in definition of the car park then the demarcation is the fault of the parking co in the first place and therrefore the signage is confusing at best and misleading at worst.

You could ask them to send their invoice to the council and claim that they are responsible for the debt for deliberately misleading you.

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JHOL56, I agree with ericsbrother #18 100%. Demarcation is not clear. Go back to #8, wait for street view. Hit left arrow on road X1, Hit + (top left circle) X2, up arrow X 1; you will notice a tarmac footpath, almost inviting you to make the mistake that you and no doubt many others have.

Appeal as per ericsbrother #18. That will probably get rejected, but give you the POPLA no.

 

 

Get your son in law to photo the signs and boundary (demarcation) and make an appeal with help from fellow CAGGERS

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I feel you will be playing letting tennis with them if only now you are making a written appeal as the reg keeper.

They will say you are out of time to appeal. You can try and see what happens!

I suggested naming the driver (if different) as then the clock resets and they have to chase driver, which should be an easier route to POPLA.. Naming the driver should be the last last resort.

 

Now thinking about it you should appeal as reg keeper as they can't 'do' court without using all available means to resolve the situation, which includes POPLA. ..

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More to the point, JOHL56 purchased a ticket albeit from the wrong one (he still has it). "Their was no PCN affixed to vehicle when he returned to it; hence he ignored letters because he had "paid". Surely that's an arguing point!!!!!

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This is what I have replied with.

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

RE: ******

I am writing in regard to the above reference and to appeal against a parking charge you claim is due for a vehicle mark ******* at the time and date 15:12, 13/10/2013 on land at Beckett St Florence Nightinggale LS97JC and sent to me as the registered keeper of the vehicle.

Your correspondence claims there was no entitlement to be there, yet a parking ticket was purchased and displayed in the car. I have already notified your company of this fact, and while they initially claimed there wasn’t, the telephone operative I spoke to proceeded to read the information to me contained on the ticket without my first having given any details. You are obviously aware there was a ticket in the car for the time and date the car was parked.

I would also like to add there was no PCN notice attached to the car to notify the driver of any supposed infraction of parking rules at the time. Your correspondence says the charge you are claiming is displayed on the land, yet this was not obvious. The signage simply stated it was a pay and display car park, and a ticket was purchased and displayed using the machines closest to where the car was parked. Nothing indicated there should be a separate machine used for different areas of the parking areas.

If you are unwilling to accept there was a ticket on display and there is a failure in the signage to be clear and concise, and wish to continue to pursue this matter, please provide me with the POPLA reference in the first instance as I intend to defend this matter fully.

Further, please provide a full breakdown of your charges. I do not believe the information provided to date represents a genuine pre-estimate of loss.

Many thanks,

NAME

I'll post any follow up replies I get. Hopefully this is ok.

JH.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi,

 

I've had a reply and they have declined my appeal, saying it outside the 28 days limit. I'll post copies later today if I can of the information. They haven't included a POPLA reference as I can see. Do I now advise them of who the driver was?

 

Thanks

 

JH

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