TFL prosecution!!!! - ** SETTLED BEFORE COURT **

[Sammy13]

Hello can one of the transport guys please help me with my situation!!

 

I was caught on 12 december 2013 using my friends student oyster card, and was caught. I received a letter yesterday saying that 'they may prosecute me'.

 

I have decided to write an apologetical letter and asking for an out of court settlement. I Have not been using the card regularly, i would say i have used it twice, prior to that i have been using my student oyster(i regret for being ignorant of tfl laws and fully understand where tfl are coming from). Is it possible they could check that.

 

And the lady who took my details only cautioned me after i signed her notebook, the caution was something like 'you are not under arrest...and you don't have to stay with me'. How relevant is this!!

 

PLease need replys ASAP!!!

Edited January 11, 2014 by honeybee13

[Conniff]

Welcome Sammy.

 

It can be a bit quiet over the weekends sometime, but someone will respond as soon as they see your plea.

[Sammy13]

Thanks for the response. will wait for them to reply!!!

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

Please could you tell us what the TfL letter says please? I should help us to advise you if you type their letter up here without any identifying information.

 

Have you sent the letter yet or are you looking for advice on what to say?

 

My best, HB

[Sammy13]

Hello this is what the letter said, I haven't replied yet!!

 

I received a letter from TFL asking me to make any comments regarding the incident that took place.

 

TFL only refers to

"an incident took place at Borough road station whereby you were spoken to by a member of London Underground staff regarding your train journey and the associated fare.

 

 

The facts of this incidents are now being considered and I must advise you that legal proceedings may be initiated against you regarding this matter in accordance with the LU prosecution policy".

 

I am then invited to make any comments but I do not have to.

 

 

However, not responding might harm my defense if I later want to rely on it in court and am being advised that this will be used as evidence.

[honeybee13]

Thank you for that.

 

What you need to say is beyond my knowledge, but I hope some of the transport guys will be along over the weekend. We're all volunteers here, so you may need to bear with us for a short while until people get here.

 

When do you need to reply by?

 

HB

[Sammy13]

Hello

 

Thanks for getting back. I have to reply within 10 days!! I am going to admit guilt and write a letter saying iam sorry....

will wait for you guys to reply!!

[honeybee13]

Hello

 

Thanks for getting back. I have to reply within 10 days!! I am going to admit guilt and write a letter saying iam sorry....

will wait for you guys to reply!!

 

Thank you for this. I think you're on the right track and are taking the right attitude. I think you also might also want to promise to abide by the rules in future and ask if they will allow you to reimburse the unpaid fares and TfL's reasonable expenses to avoid going to court, but I'll let the forum experts tell you more about what to write.

 

HB

[Sammy13]

Hello,

 

Thanks!! i will wait for the other guys to reply.

[Old-CodJA]

If you intend to face-up to your own error of judgement, which in my book is always a good idea, you are on the right track as HB says.

 

You might like to say that you very much regret your error of judgment, offer a sincere apology to the company and staff concerned, undertake not to repeat the offence and ask if they will allow you to make payment of the fare and any reasonable costs that they have incurred in dealing with your misdemeanour.

 

Be aware that they can say no and may proceed to pursue the action, but at this stage this is the best you can do in writing to them promptly.

[Sammy13]

'If you intend to face-up to your own error of judgement, which in my book is always a good idea, you are on the right track as HB says.

 

You might like to say that you very much regret your error of judgment, offer a sincere apology to the company and staff concerned, undertake not to repeat the offence and ask if they will allow you to make payment of the fare and any reasonable costs that they have incurred in dealing with your misdemeanour.

 

Be aware that they can say no and may proceed to pursue the action, but at this stage this is the best you can do in writing to them promptly'.

 

Thank you for your advice, I do intent to own up. All i can do is write a letter with great sincerity and apologise. If it fails then I am ready to face the consequences.

 

Can you also suggest something about the caution mentioned in questions!!

[Old-CodJA]

The P.A.C.E Caution does exactly 'what it says on the tin' as it were,

 

It warns you that, when asked to answer a question, you are not obliged to do so, but, if you do answer the question and if you do not mention at that time an excuse or reason for your action, then you may not be able to rely on that explanation as a defence if the allegation proceeds to a Court hearing.

 

Magistrates may be allowed to draw inference from your silence

 

The Criminal Justice Act (1967) directs Courts to consider 'intent' by inference from all of the evidence available.

 

It is the observed actions of a passenger, and the statements that they might make, which can demonstrate 'intent to avoid payment' if they have not previously paid their correct fare

Edited January 12, 2014 by Old-CodJA

[Sammy13]

Hello,

 

I understand what P.A.C.E is,. It is only after i signed her little notebook that she cautioned me and said whatever i said would be used as evidence and let me go. Is this normal!!! Because after asking your name and address then they caution you right??

 

Just want to clarify this.

 

Thanks

[Old-CodJA]

It is not unusual for a good inspector to ask for a name and address and a sample signature at the time of any pre-caution notes.

 

The inspector's notebook should show what time you were cautioned and the questions that she asked you along with your answers after that point at the end of which, s/he should read the notes aloud whilst allowing you to see what was written. If these notes are agreed as accurate then the inspector will offer the opportunity to sign the record and a further note of the time will be recorded.

at that point.

 

There is no obligation on you to do so, but if the opportunity to sign is declined, the inspector should make a note to that effect and if a further member of staff is present, should obtain a signature to the effect that opportunity was offered and declined.

 

Sometimes an inspector might ask for confirmation of name and address after caution.

[Sammy13]

Hello

 

Thanks for getting back, this is what happened to me.

 

I got caught:

1. Asked my name and address, i showed my drivers ID. Noted downn (she also took my oyster card details)

2. Then the questions where put forth.

3.Then she said do you wanna read it, I just wanted to go from there asap so said NO.

4. Then she just asked me to sign it and I did.

5.Then the caution came like 'you are not under arrest....you don't have to remain with us'.

 

Thanks

[Sammy13]

Hello,

 

would I go to jail for this. I have no previous convictions or any other misdemeanours.

 

thanks

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

If you only used the card twice, I think it's very unlikely you'll go to prison. As far as I know, nobody from this forum has been sent to prison for fare evasion. Try not to worry.

 

HB

[BazzaS]

Hello again.

 

If you only used the card twice, I think it's very unlikely you'll go to prison. As far as I know, nobody from this forum has been sent to prison for fare evasion. Try not to worry.

 

HB

 

RRA 1889. S5(3)

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/52-53/57/section/5

 

The usual statute used for "intent to avoid their fare".

 

If found guilty (by plea or verdict) a prison sentence is only a possibility for a second (or other subsequent) offence.

You cannot be sentenced to prison for a first offence (leaving aside the scenario of deliberately not paying a fine ......)

[Sammy13]

Hello

 

Thanks for getting back. I am going to send the letter tomorrow and let us see what happens.

[honeybee13]

Hi Sammy.

 

Please let us know how it goes, we're here to help.

 

HB

[Sammy13]

Hello

 

Sure I will get back. I am beating myself over this, Can't believe I was ignorant of tfl Laws.

 

Thanks

[Sammy13]

Hello

 

I have sent the letter but I still Haven't got a reply. do they usually reply, or just go ahead without telling me what is going to happen.

 

thanks

[Sammy13]

Hello Guys

 

Just a quick update...i just recieved a summons and they are pursuing me with this act, 'The summons says contrary to S.5 (3) (a) of the regulation of railways act 1989 as amended by section 84 (2) of the transport act 1982 and section 18 of the British railways act 1970.' dont know wat to do..I really dont want a criminal record...i have apolagised and agreed to pay administrative costs...is it still possible to get a settlement out of court...and if so whom should i speak to..

 

Please help!!

[Grotesque]

This is your opportunity to... contact them again in exactly the same spirit as you have done already, perhaps emphasising the damage to your future career etc (if that's actually true). After all, it's never too late, up to and including the steps of the court.

 

This time they might consider your request, as it is now at the 'proper' time, now you (and they) know what you are being charged with; although

[honeybee13]

Hello again.

 

There's nothing to stop you continuing to negotiate. I think you would ring the person who wrote to you, but hopefully someone with a bit more expertise will confirm that and suggest what you might say.

 

What is the court date please?

 

HB