Advice / Info regarding and outstanding debt and CCJ info

[Tanis]

Hi all,

 

My first post so be gentle haha.

 

I have an ongoing problem I am trying to get sorted out with HFC bank, ill give a little background first so you know where I am coming from.

 

I have previously been through a debt management program (5 years) with DCM Apex (you may well be familiar with them) who have now gone into liquidation. At the end of the 5 years DCM had failed to pay off a number of my creditors and after much wrangling and argueing with them I get a couple more sorted out (even had CCJ against me and agreed notice applied for on my property while DCM where 'managing' these accounts, although thats now soretd), however this left me with 3 debts dumped back in my lap.

 

Two of the three are in hand but HFC are just being a pain. They will not accept any payment terms from me, even though I am offering more than double my contracted payment. I have the contracted amount, in writting on the last letter to me. However, they will setup a 3 month recurring payment, which I have to spend ages on the phone re-doing every 3 months and this also incurs an extra £1 p/month charge. I am not trying to get out of the debt, I just want a payment setup and not have to pay the charges every month, but they are having none of it.

 

They have requested another income/outgoing sheet which I provided and they say they never received, apparently without a new one they seem to thing I should be paying them around £500 p/month, god only knows where they go that figure from, the current debt has only £2000 remaining!

 

Any thoughts on what my best course of action should be, I obviously can't afford their proposed payment option, I don't have the money to clear the debt (they would of accepted £1500 final payment a couple of weeks ago). I am just getting annoyed at the constant charges, when the 3 months is up I get constant phonecalls (anything up to 10-15 times a day as late as 8-9pm at night) until I can get the next 3 months setup. This takes about 20 minutes on the phone, having to go through the same 'discussion' everytime and is just infuriating.

 

Any thoughts, hints tips or advice very much welcome.

 

Thanks in advance.

[ims21]

Hi

 

Welcome to CAG

 

HFC are one of my pet hates.

 

Can you give us some history of the debt please? What type of account is it etc etc

 

Regards

 

ims

Edited September 5, 2011 by ims21

[Tanis]

Hi, thanks for the welcome and the reply.

 

Ill check on the info tonight as I am at work at the moment and don't have all the details with me, to ensure sure I give the right info. Its a fairly old loan, over 6 years now (5 years in debt management and that ended just over a year ago).

[ims21]

Hi, thanks for the welcome and the reply.

 

Ill check on the info tonight as I am at work at the moment and don't have all the details with me, to ensure sure I give the right info. Its a fairly old loan, over 6 years now (5 years in debt management and that ended just over a year ago).

 

Hi

 

Understood.

 

Just to give you the heads up on HFC, they have probably whacked loads of charges on the account over the years, all of which can be reclaimed.

 

In addition, HFC have been one the major sinners in the mis-sale of ppi and you may well have ppi on your loan that you can claim back as well.

 

Finally for the moment, don't worry about whether they accept your payment proposals or not....you are in control of this not them. The days are long gone where the banks can intimidate you into paying an amount that you cannot afford. It is now a matter of you telling them what they are going to get and not the other way around.

 

Regards

 

ims

[Debtbutt]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?609-Can-t-find-the-letter-you-want-Look-here

[Tanis]

Had a look through my paperwork and can't seem to find my original credit agreement, although I can find one for just about every other bit of credit I have ever had!

 

The original agreement was changed in 2006 after DCM involvement (£3300 +/- outstanding at that time) and a new agreement was created with frozen interest, charges and a payment of £26 p/m, I have an unsigned copy of this agreement also. That payment schedule still stands as confirmed by HFC in a letter in Aug 2010 (£2600 +/- oustanding). DCM failed to maintain payments throughout their 5 year terms (on any accounts, a source of many 'discussions' and letters between them and I).

 

From that, I would imagine the first place to request the original, signed credit agreement from HFC. I can not confirm / deny wether PPI was taken out or not, although I suspect it wasn't as I didn't take it out on much (if anything) at that time.

 

Any other pointers / hints / tips appreciated.

 

Thanks for the link, will use those templates to request the original agreement.

[ims21]

Hi

 

What I would do is end HFC a Subject Access Request (SAR). see here for template

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/content.php?552-Data-Protection

 

There is a fee payable of £10 and they will have 40 days to comply. Amongst other things you will receive copy statements.transaction history on the account to enable you to prepare a claim for any charges that have been applied. It will also reveal whether ppi was added. HFC did slap this on without people knowing about it in some cases.

 

Send it recorded.

 

Then write to HFC telling them what you are going to pay per month. They do not tell you. In that same letter tell them that you will only correspond about this matter in writing and thet you will not be discussing any matter relating to this on the phone. You do not need to send them an I&E form if you do not want to. Just make sure that the payment you tell them they are going to get is easily affordable to YOU and then stick to those payments.

 

Regards

 

ims

[Tanis]

Sounds like a plan. I have done an SAR before, I sent one to DCM when I was gathering information about their lack of payments to my creditors, so no problem there. Thanks for the info, will get onto this right away.

 

As soon as I get a payment setup with HFC it will make things much easier, I am happy to pay what I owe just sick of them being so unhelpful, which tends to put me on the defensive and I start becoming unhelpful aswell haha. I have their number programmed into my mobile and home phone now and just don't answer anymore if they call, sending everything via mail instead.

[ims21]

[Tanis]

Well, letters are all done and sent, now for waiting game!

[Tanis]

I just had a thought today as I was checking dates for when this SAR was sent. You state in your details that they have 40 days in order to respond to an SAR, is that 40 calendar days or 40 working days?

[ims21]

I just had a thought today as I was checking dates for when this SAR was sent. You state in your details that they have 40 days in order to respond to an SAR, is that 40 calendar days or 40 working days?

 

40 Calendar Days

 

ims

[Tanis]

40 Calendar Days

 

ims

 

Thanks, I suspected it would be calendar days as working days seemed a little excessive.

[Tanis]

Well, had a reply from HFC today. All it is though is an acknowledgement of receipt of the SAR and asking me to resubmit the full application with additional proof of identification (copy of driving license or passport).

 

I have done two SAR before and never been asked for additional proof of identification. Do I have to resubmit the full application, which I can only assume is to reset the 40 days as they will treat it as a different request?

 

I find it a little strange that it has taken them a month to respond just to ask for further proof of ID, surely that could of been done within a matter of days!

 

It seems to be that HFC just seem to go out of their way to make things far more difficult than they need to be.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks

[Tanis]

In addition to the above, I just thought of (and have checked) the cheque for the SAR fee, which has been cashed by HFC already! Surely, if they could not confirm the identity of the person submitting the SAR they should not be taking the fee?

[ims21]

Hi

 

Write back to them and tell them that there is no requirement for you to provide proof of ID as they have happily corresponded with you in the past about the account and that if they are that concerned about who you are then there are Data Protection issues with them corresponding with you without such proof.

 

Don't worry...they did this with me. I sent them a copy of my driving licence with the photo blanked out and my signature partially obscured.

 

When you write to them with the ID, tell them that this doesn't affect the 40 days laid down in the DPA especially as they have chosen to cash the cheque for the SAR and that their 40 days runs from the date they received the SAR to avoid a formal complaint to the ICO.

 

Cheeky beggars.

 

ims

[Tanis]

Many thanks, I was thinking along the same lines regarding the cashed cheque and the 40 days, but always nice to get an opinion from a third party.

 

Ironically, I have also had a letter from them today trying to tell me the account is almost £2000 in arrears (basically the total outstanding amount) even though I have been paying them every month for the last year, until now as I have stopped payments since the SAR was sent.

 

I am no really concerned about this letter at this time, its a fairly standard one I have seen many times before when I went through debt management, although I was amused by the final line on it ....

 

"We would prefer to reach a mutually acceptable arrangement to bring your account up to date"

 

Really, strange as they have previously flatly refused any payment options I have proposed in the past. Hey ho, I try not to get too annoyed at these people anymore, will send the letter tomorrow and see what happens.

 

Thanks again.

[ims21]

 

I can see you're getting on top of this now and getting to grips with how the game is played

 

ims

[Tanis]

Maybe haha. The game was supposed to have finished about 18 months ago, but my debt management company didn't play properly, which probably explains why they have now gone into liquidation!

[Tanis]

Well the 40 days are up today, will wait and see what mail is at home when I get back after work. Having said that, I am not expecting much to be honest, if I haven't had the response by now I really can't see it landing on the 40th day

[Tanis]

So, as expected, we are now at the 42 day point from the original letter date and nothing received. I would assume that Template 3 here now applies? This is 40 days after the original SAR was sent, obviuosly they have requested further identification since then (which I have also sent) and in that letter I stated that their request does not affect the 40 days especially as they had already cashed the £10 fee cheque associated with the original request, before receiving the additional ID.

 

One good thing is that they appear to have taken heed of the other letter regarding the phonecalls as I have not received any calls since sending it, which is a vast improvement on the 10-15 calls per day I was getting. Although I have not had any contact by letter either apart from a standard 'thankyou for informing us about your financial difficulties ......' and asking for yet another financial statement. Interesting, as I have not actually informed them of any financial difficulties!

[ims21]

Hi

 

Responding to your PM.

 

Template 3 is a base, yes. I'd out a paragraph in to the effect that they have cashed the payment and clearly therefore have the original request and that you consider them to be in breach of the Data Protection Act.

 

I'd be a bit softer than just mentioning court outright. Maybe something along the lines that if you don't get the stuff within 7 days you will be making a formal complaint to the Information Commissioner and that you may commence proceedings through the courts to force compliance.

 

Send recorded addressed to the Data Compliance Manager at HFC.

 

Only threaten court action if you intend to go through with it.

 

ims

[Tanis]

Many thanks, I was thinking that court seemed a little harsh outright at this stage which is why I thought I would seek a little clarification, your a star, much appreciated.

[ims21]

[Tanis]

Well, had a reply from HFC this morning, right on the 7 day deadline (no surprises there). I don't have a scanner so have typed out their letter word for word below:

 

Dear Mr xxxxx

 

Account Number: xxxxxx

 

We refer to your request for information that we hold in respect of the above account.

 

Please find attached the following enclosures:

C.B.S Account Enquiry

This includes all demographic details, and specific account information. The journal pages include a record of conversations with you. Please note that all balances were correct at the date and time the details were printed. (Please not not all call are recorded and we only retain records for 30 days).

 

C.I.F. Account update screen

This is a system used for updating the account enquiry screens.

 

C.A.C.S

The system used to record an account that has been in arrears.

 

Please also find enclosed copies of any manual letter that have been issued on the above account. Please be advised that any system generated letters can not be enclosed as copies of these are not kept.

 

HFC Bank has been unable to provide a photocopy of the original agreement. However, we are entitled to rely on and provide a reconstituted copy omitting a signature pursuant to Regulation 3 (2) (b) of the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents 1983) a copy of the terms of the executed agreement.

 

All products, including insurance products, are provided by HFC Bank LImited or one of its subsidiary companies and, therefore, no commissions or brokers fees are payable.

 

Please be advised that this account has never had Paytment Protection Insurance (P.P.I.) Cover.

 

The bit in red is the main thing that interested me. I haven't had a chance to go through all the paperwork yet, but thought I would post this up for thoughts?

 

Thank again for all the help, I will go through the paperwork this afternoon and see if anything else jumps out at me.