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    • I'm afraid that I think that as you've assembled the chair and you are unable to return it into its saleable condition, then you probably have a problem. I don't think you could take advantage of the distance selling rules in those circumstances and that means that the seller would be entitled to apply conditions to the return of the item. If that's the case then you only fall back is that the item was defective if you find that there is something wrong with it which is preventing its disassembly. On the other hand, this itself raises an interesting issue. Does a chair become of unsatisfactory quality because you can't take it apart and put it in a box? From the sounds of it, the sellers terms and conditions that there is a restocking fee for the return of an online sale even if it is within the 14 day period, seems to me to be quite unenforceable but on the basis of what you say, that issue doesn't arise here because you are unable to put the chair back into its saleable condition and it's not clear that the chair is defective - 
    • Hi everyone, I'm in need of some urgent advice please. Apologies for the long post - I felt it was better to provide all the information clearly at the outset.   I purchased an office stool (that cost £104.39) online, which was delivered on 18th May. After assembling the stool, I found it wasn't suitable for me, so contacted the seller on 27th May to initiate a return.    The seller told me that there would be a "£24.95 handling charge" for returning the item. He quoted the terms and conditions from their website to back this up (please see below), although this is confusing because 35% of £104.39 does not equal £24.95: "Please note that furniture items are subject to a 35% restocking fee. Furniture returns will only be accepted if the item is unused and still in the original packaging. All furniture returns must be made within 14 days of delivery."   I told the seller that, under the Consumer Contract Regulations, the trader cannot charge any fees in the event of cancellation. The response was: "If you not happy to pay for the collection charge for us to arrange this with a courier to uplift then you can send this back to our office directly arranging your own courier, please note we would not cover the cost if this is the case."    I agreed to this, because from my reading of the CCR I thought that the customer was responsible for return delivery:  (5) The consumer must bear the direct cost of returning goods under paragraph (2), unless— (a)the trader has agreed to bear those costs, or (b)the trader failed to provide the consumer with the information about the consumer bearing those costs, required by paragraph (m) of Schedule 2, in accordance with Part 2. Also, from getting quotations online I thought I could arrange delivery, for what was at the time a smallish box, for a much cheaper price (£7-8).   However, when I tried to disassemble the stool for return, it would not come apart. I contacted the manufacturer for further guidance, but the only how-to video they had available was not applicable to the model, and the manufacturer representative was unable to provide further instructions.   I have now been sent a 'built box' to return the stool without the need to disassembly. The issue is that the size of the box means that shipping charges are now £30 minimum i.e. more than the 'handling charge' the seller quoted.    Am I obliged to pay this return fee, or should this actually be something the seller should pay for? 🤔 I feel like I may have two potential arguments against it: Return delivery would not be nearly so expensive if the stool had come apart as the manufacturer said it should.  The Consumer Contract Regs state that a consumer is not responsible for return shipping if the trader has not provided information about the right to cancel and about return shipping on a durable medium.    What even counts as a durable medium? The dispatch note that came with the stool had no such information, while the order confirmation email simply had a link to their terms and conditions (which includes the statement about the restocking fee quoted above).   Does this clause mean the seller is still obliged to pay return shipping? Any advice would be greatly appreciated! I'm starting to stress a little about this because the 28-day cancellation-and-return period will be in two working days (although I realise that may be extended if it can be considered that the seller did not provide the required cancellation information).    Thank you in advance!  
    • so what you mean is that "each" parcel contained a single dinner plate. Thank you that clarifies things. As you been advised by my site team colleague, please make sure that you read around a substantial number of the Hermes stories on the sub- forum. You will get to understand the principles and also the similarities and approach from Hermes. Of course Hermes is being abusive of the system because they exploit a taxpayer funded under resourced justice system simply to put their customers into a kind of triage where only the most persistent finally get through to the end which is almost always – mediation – and then will manage to get their money or most of their money. Hermes are abusive of this system and of course they are actually going to spend more money than the value of your damaged items trying to smash you down. Because their attempts to crush you are effectively subsidised by the taxpayer, they don't really care. Make sure you understand what they will say about the prohibited items list because your plates are made of china or porcelain and will be prohibited items, according to Hermes. On the other hand, they were correctly declared and they were accepted for delivery. The values were correctly declared – and once again after you have completed your reading, you will understand the significance of this. Hermes will also try to say that you didn't have a contract with them and you should sue packlink – who conveniently – are based in Spain outside the jurisdiction. They were say that you are attacking the wrong people. Once again, when you have completed your reading you will understand the standard reply to this. Once again you will discover that this is Hermes being abusive of the system and misleading their customers as to what their rights are. Make a formal complaint to Hermes. Tell them that they are responsible. Don't give them a deadline, but wait a reasonable time – 10 to 14 days – after which you will send them a letter of claim if they haven't put their hands up by then or if you have had no response. By that time, you will have done enough reading to understand the way it goes but we will advise you and support you all the way.   Come back here when you have been knocked back by Hermes and we will take you through the next step  
    • @BankFodder is this ok to send to all contacts at aviva regarding the final notification debt letter theyve sent   I received your correspondence regarding the notice of debt dated 8th June received 12th June giving me 7 days to make payment. I don’t owe this money and the policy was taken out by my brother by a fraud in which you were complicit. The police are aware I have a crime reference number 1XXXXX this fraud is being investigated by PC XX, she will be emailing yourselves I give full authorisation for her to discuss any aspects of this case with yourselves.
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Cash4phones - creditors meeting - 13th Jan Please retweet - https://cag.tw/tf7

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If you are one of the many people who have had their phone stolen by this crowd then you are a creditor of the company.

If you have a judgment against them then you are a preferred creditor.


Please spread the word on this meeting to Facebook, Twitter - and of course - other victims.


The short url for this thread is - cag.tw/tf7




Meetings of Creditors




(t/a Cash 4 Phones)


(Company Number 06300042)


(formerly C4P Trading Limited)


Suite 21, 5 Spring Street, Paddington, London, W3 3AQ


Principal Trading Address: 15 Gateway Mews, London, N11 2UT


Notice is hereby given, pursuant to Section 98 of the Insolvency Act 1986 that a meeting of the creditors of the above-named Company will be held at 122 Hither Green Lane, Hither Green, London, SE13 6QA, on 13 January 2014, at 11.15 am for the purposes provided for in Sections 99, 100 and 101 of the said Act. Creditors wishing to vote at the meeting must lodge their proxy together with a statement of claim at the registered office of the Company which is now Capital Books, 103 Scotney Gardens, St Peters Street, Maidstone, Kent, ME16 0GT not later than 12.00 noon on the business day before the meeting. At the meeting, creditors may be asked to consider a resolution specifying the terms on which the liquidator is to be remunerated and the meeting may receive information about, or be called upon to approve, the costs of preparing the statement of affairs and convening the meeting. A copy of ‘A Creditors Guide to the Liquidators’ Fees’ published by the Association of Business Recovery Professionals and Capital Books fee policy are available at the link http://www.capital-books.co.uk/FeePackages.html. Notice is also given that Mansoor Mubarik (IP No 009667) of Capital Books, 103 Scotney Gardens, St Peters Street, Maidstone, ME16 0GT, is qualified to act as an Insolvency Practitioner in relation to the Company and will, during the period before the day of the meeting, furnish creditors with such information concerning the Company’s affairs as they may reasonably require.


Creditors can contact this office on 01622 754 927 or by email at [email protected].



Nearchos Chacholiades, Director



03 January 2014.






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You may want to send a copy of your judgment to Capital Books, 103 Scotney Gardens, St Peters Street, Maidstone, Kent, ME16 0GT


But also call them on the given number 01622 754 927 and ask them about your voting right and how you can vote against the dissolution of the company. Capital Book are not a bookshop by the way. They are insolvency practitioners.

Be polite with them. They have nothing to do with C4P - they are just doing their job.


Also, you may want to inform the police that the man they may be looking for may be at 122 Hither Green Lane, Hither Green, London, SE13 6QA, on 13 January 2014, at 11.15

Q. Can I use Bankruptcy and Company Insolvency Proceedings to recover my money? This sounds very complicated. Will I recover all of my money using this method?


Bankruptcy is available for debts of £750 and over; however, it rarely results in payment to `ordinary' [i.e. unsecured] creditors. A judgment creditor [even the creditor who starts the insolvency action] is not necessarily a "preferential" creditor and must take a share in any assets with other ordinary creditors, but only after those `preferential ' creditors with security (e.g. mortgagees) have been paid and after payment of outstanding tax and the fees and expenses of the receiver in bankruptcy.


A Statutory Demand is the first step to bankruptcy against an individual and this is prepared and served without any court involvement. A statutory demand can be served as soon as the debt is due and a judgment is not necessary. If the debtor disputes the claim, he or she can apply for the statutory demand to be set aside. The bankruptcy court will halt the bankruptcy if there is any dispute about the sum outstanding. It can be relatively easy for a debtor to have a statutory demand set aside and the process can result in an order for costs being made against the creditor, so caution needs to be exercised before using a Statutory Demand.


The Winding-up Procedure against companies also starts with a statutory demand. There is no set procedure to set aside a statutory demand against a company, and if the debt is disputed, the case is argued after the presentation of the petition i.e.?


The court fees and sums payable to the official receiver by way of deposit are considerable and will deter most creditors pursuing a Small Claims judgment via the bankruptcy or insolvency route.



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Please click on the link that the forum posted its gives you the email address of [email protected] - They will send you a proof of debt form, I am currently sending the CJ Number, Proof of delivery for letters sent along with the letters, Emailes received from C4P.


Gather as much info as you can that they owe you this money. Once the documents are completed either email them back to the email addreess provided or send it by registered post to the address of capital books quoting Yeomania.


Good luck guys & gals.

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That's right, I'm afraid.


But if you have a copy of the judgment then I think that you should contact Capital Books - quickly. And the police. Have you contacted the police? - Action Fraud?


Amazingly, most of the victims pf Cash4phones who I have come across have not bothered to contact the police!!!!

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Great. Have you given them the crime details as well?


I suggest also that you contact the fraud team and tell them about this new developments - and give them the details of Capital Books

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Amazingly, most of the victims pf Cash4phones who I have come across have not bothered to contact the police!!!!


I have and have a crime number. also contacted companies house to press them to keep the company from using insolvency to close the company which was obviously setup as a front for criminal activity.

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The only thing that would discourage it would be a serious police investigation and some arrests.


If one of the victims had been a policeman's daughter - you can bet that it would have been stopped a long time ago.

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United Kingdom[edit]

England and Wales[edit]

A citizen's arrest is permitted to be made on any person under section 24A of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 for an indictable offence, including either way offences (in this section referred to simply as "an offence"), but excluding certain specific ones listed below. It is thus permissible for any person to arrest:

Anyone who is in the act of committing an offence, or whom the arrestor has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be in the act of committing an offence, or

Where an offence has been committed, anyone who is guilty of that offence or whom the arrestor has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of it

In order for the arrest to be lawful, the following two conditions must also be satisfied:

It appears to the person making the arrest that it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make the arrest instead

The arrestor has reasonable grounds for believing that the arrest is necessary to prevent one of the following:

The person causing physical injury to himself or others

The person suffering physical injury

The person causing loss of or damage to property

The person absconding before a constable can assume responsibility for him

Use of the second power above is rather risky, since it relies upon the person carrying out the arrest knowing that an offence has been committed, of which in itself needs to be indictable or either way offence. The Act therefore gives a constable additional powers under section 24 to arrest the following:

Anyone who is (without doubt) about to commit an offence, or whom the constable has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be about to commit an offence

Anyone whom the constable has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of an offence which is merely suspected to have taken place

N.B. "Any person" powers can be used to arrest before an offence occurs as long as the offence in question falls within the Criminal Attempts Act 1981. This act creates the offence of an attempted offence, as long as the offence being attempted is an indictable one. For this to apply, the offence must actually be in the process of being attempted - preparatory steps are not sufficient. For example, putting gloves on to smash a car window would not suffice, but the throwing of a brick at the window would.

A constable's arrest power is not limited to indictable offences, and conditions different from the above apply.

However, a citizen's arrest cannot be made:

inside a polling station, on a person who commits or is suspected of committing an offence of personation under article 30 of the National Assembly for Wales (Representation of the People) Order 2007,[36]

inside a polling station, on a person who commits or is suspected of committing an offence of personation under section 60 of the Representation of the People Act 1983[37]

in relation to an offence of stirring up racial hatred under Part 3 or stirring up religious hatred under Part 3A of the Public Order Act 1986.[38]

In addition to the above, a private person may be authorised to execute an arrest warrant, if the court issuing the warrant has given them the authority to do so.



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Best place to sell old phones is ebay, gumtree or other free ad places like Vivastreet - I got offered pittance by one of these phone recycling companies whereas I made a nice amount on ebay but mainly cos the sim cards had lots of credit on them...

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I can't imagine that this is correct. Maybe they are floundering and they don't know what to do.


I would suggest a note to them protesting and telling them that you will be sending an immediate complaint to their controlling body and aslo to Trading Standards about them. Surely they are required to log all claims by creditors.


have a look on their website for their professional associations. Copy them into the email you sent to Cap Books.

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Also, you may want to inform the police that the man they may be looking for may be at 122 Hither Green Lane, Hither Green, London, SE13 6QA, on 13 January 2014, at 11.15


Only a few streets away from where I live - pity I didn't get scammed, and will be at work, anyway.
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I've received an email saying the case has been closed for the complaint i made and all victims are being refered to trading standards tel:




I have just had a message form the BBC. They have contacted the provisional liquidator and he has He’s denied that he’s referring creditors to Trading Standards.


He is expecting the director to be there at the meeting!


If you have an email referring you to Trading Standards - please will you post it up here urgently and alos send me a copy as an attachment to our admin email address .

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Hi Guys


I have not suffered any loss with this company but sympathise with those who have. I am just making a couple of points to try and be helpful here.


First, a Judgment does not make you a preferential creditor. Preferential creditors are people like employees etc. A CCJ in itself does not make you any more than an unsecured creditor.


Second, it is unlikely that the police will be interested until the liquidator has finished his enquiries and they will consider it a civil matter. Likewise, trading standards are not likely to get involved at this stage either, not that they could do much anyway.


The problem with this situation as I see it will be that there is likely to be lots (thousands perhaps) of small creditors who are owed maybe £100 or so tops. If the company have appointed their own provisional liquidator, the only way to overturn this would be to collect as many proxy votes from as many creditors as possible with a view to overturn their choice of liquidator and appoint someone else.


The problem with this is initially the time factor, there is not much time to organise this as the creditors meeting is little more than a week away and you would need to get a majority of creditors to vote against the appointment of the provisional liquidator.


The liquidator has a duty to investigate the conduct of the directors and if necessary can take action against them. The directors (or at least one of them) has to be present to chair the creditors meeting.


If anyone has time to attend the meeting, I would suggest that a proposal is made that a committee of inspection should be convened to assist the liquidator to carry out investigations into the director's conduct.


I wish you all luck


regards - Colin

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Well I advised action fraud yesterday that it would be appropriate for them to attend the meeting and arrest the director. they haven't replied to me as yet!


However as I am planning to attend, how about people filling in their proxy form and nominating me? I don't want to put my personal details on here though, but if you post your willingness to do this then Bankfodder can probably get them to you (unless any of the CAG admins are also planning to attend?)

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