Jump to content

 

BankFodder BankFodder


mrbrooks

Smile trying to apply unfair charges

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 1726 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

Hi all, I have a question for you...

 

A few days ago, on the 31st Dec, I made a purchase with my smile debit card, for £10.00, the transaction was of course accepted and on my way I went.

 

Then on the 2nd Jan Smile charged me the monthly fee of £13.00 for my smile more account, again which is fine.

 

On the 3rd Dec, the £10.00 from the first transaction shows up, Smile informed me they had paid this despite me not having enough funds to pay for this transaction, and puts me £9.08 over my OD limit.

 

I then paid in £35 at around midday on the 3rd Jan(The same day as the payment was listed as being taken) to bring my account back into limit with a little to spare. I have also transferred another £25 today so my account is now well within the limit.

 

Smile are now saying that I am going to be charged £20.00 for the indiscretion, but i fail to see how they can do this, it is unfair in my view as the first transaction in my view was 'paid' at the point of purchase, I base this on the fact it was accepted at POS by the bank, and the last physical payment was actually to themselves for the subscription charge. I of course accept this may not be correct but that's how I feel about it just now.

 

More importantly though, the account was back in limit the very same day before their close of business and therefore I fail to see how they can apply any charge as they have not actually lost anything, nor have they been caused any additional work that actually costs them £20.00. I see this charge as excessive and is more a penalty charge than a charge to recover any loss suffered by Smile.

 

I believe this is rather unfair and would like CAG members to throw me some opinions and thoughts on what they think and how to go about dealing with this.

 

Thanks in advance ...

 

mrbrooks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as the charges have been applied in line with the terms and conditions which you agreed to then I don't think you can say it's unfair. After all you agreed to it and it does work the same way for everybody else.

 

The fact is you went beyond your overdraft limit. Why shouldn't you pay the fee you agreed to?

 

For your info, you can find the account t+c and the charges booket on their website: http://www.smile.co.uk/currentaccounts/smilemore-current-account#documents

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi CagBmn, thanks for the reply, I agree that the bank deserve compensating IF they have suffered a loss, but this is not so, they have suffered no loss, neither have they been caused additional work as the message is entirely automated, they ended the day no worse off than when they started it, as far as I can see...

 

Still I suppose you are right, I agreed to the T+C so I suppose they can lawfully do whatever they wan to us and we should not argue back,simply because we agreed to it. Whether it is fair or not.

 

I will probably pay it and just keep a closer eye on matters in the future...

 

mrbrooks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually various terms and conditions can be considered unfair and unenforceable, regardless of if you agreed to them or not. It all depends on what the terms actually state, and without knowing the exact wording, we cant really advise better.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi renegadeimp, thanks for the reply,

 

Actually various terms and conditions can be considered unfair and unenforceable, regardless of if you agreed to them or not. It all depends on what the terms actually state, and without knowing the exact wording, we cant really advise better.

 

Aye that's what I think too...And I do feel it is unfair...

 

mrbrooks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Should've added that what I posted was just my opinion. Even if it wasn't for long you did technically borrow from them, does that count as a loss?

 

Others here will have an understanding of the legal side.

 

For clarity here are the links to the terms and conditions and banking charges documents.

Terms & conditions: http://www.smile.co.uk/assets/pdf/smile/currentaccounts/smilecurrentaccount/terms-and-conditions.pdf

Charges guide (from page 23): http://www.smile.co.uk/assets/pdf/smile/currentaccounts/smilemorecurrentaccount/benefits.pdf#page=23

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did come across something in their charges guide though:

"If you maintain your account in credit (or within any agreed overdraft limit) for a year then we won’t charge you if you then request an informal overdraft, providing that your account is returned to credit

(or inside an agreed overdraft limit) within six working days."

 

Any chance this applies to you? Could be worth a phone call

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi CagBmn, thanks for the heads up, Yes applies to me i think, I have not been outside my OD, and the account was brought within credit the same day. I did not however request an informal OD, the bank simply paid the £9.08

 

I also read something in the section about refusing payments that said cleared funds should be in the account before 12pm on the day of payment, I think I was just outside this time frame.

 

I have other bank accounts, Barclays for example and my GF has an account in NatWest where both banks in this same situation have waived any charges because the account was brought into line before the close of business. I suppose this is the bank showing some goodwill and sense...which of course I appreciate...

 

Anyway thanks again for the input...

 

mrbrooks

Edited by mrbrooks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Even if it wasn't for long you did technically borrow from them, does that count as a loss?

 

No I do not believe it does, because they were reimbursed before the loss actually occurred...unless I suppose they measure their loss hour by hour, which I guess is possible...

 

Still like I say, I suppose the best plan is to ask for some leniency and pay up if required and make sure I keep an eye on it in the future...

 

mrbrooks...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey everyone, just a quick update, I have spoken to Smile today and they have agreed to waive the charge!!! The payment I made was just outside their 12 o clock cutoff but they agreed to waive the charge as a goodwill gesture, I pointed out that I would be happy to reimburse their loss if they could provide a breakdown of their actual costs leading to their losses...

 

Anyway, the chap I spoke to in the end was very nice, was very pleasant and very helpful...

 

Good result...

 

Thanks all at CAG and thanks to Smile for playing fair...

 

mrbrooks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahh the good old goodwill gesture. basically they know they messed up but dont want to admit it and have tried to make it look like they were doing you a favour.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi renegadeimp, thanks for the reply...

 

Yeah the old 'goodwill gesture', for which I am thankful, as I did not really want to argue with them, but like I say, and I pointed out to them in secure message and on the telephone, I am more than willing to re-imburse their loss for said transgression upon production of a breakdown of costs leading to said loss...

 

Anyway, whatever they wish to name it, I am just happy to have the matter dealt with...

 

best wishes

 

mrbrooks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Congrats. Once again good old fashioned polite, friendly communication leads to a positive result.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi everyone, I was just wanting to get some thoughts/advice on something re a smile account.

 

I had a smile more account back in 2010-2014 (early 2014 when I moved to another bank).

 

The other day, I received a letter...see attached...

 

I have called the Co-op PPI Claims folks to address a number of concerns...

 

  1. I have made no complaint, nor request for a review.
  2. I DID have an account and though the number of the account on the letter is the one I used to have, and the name and address are correct, and I did have an OD, I was not 64/65 on the date shown.
  3. I am in fact only 45 and would have been 40/41 in 2010/11 at the time of the sated shown, again not 64/65.
  4. I do not at any stage recall having or requesting OPI on my account as the OD was 250-500 and I paid up the OD in 2013/14 and never used it again, followed by the closure of my account in 2014.
  5. I do not recall cancelling OPI, having never recalled having it in the first place.
  6. With all of this in mind, is this cheque still valid/genuine?

The answers were...

 

  1. It was done automatically as part of their 'reviews'
  2. Though I no longer have an account the review covered all accounts active at this time. They accept neither was I 64/65 at the time nor am I 68/69 now. They agree from my listed DOB that I am the age I claim.
  3. This is a mistake on their part and should never have been in the letter, more apologies.
  4. He was rather quiet on this, but did say on some accounts it was ‘standard’ whatever this means? To apply it. I was a little bothered by the fact it has taken them since 2010/11 to address this issue if this is in fact the case.
  5. Ooh really, then how does on go about cancelling something they have no knowledge of?
  6. After discussing the matter with the case handler (yeah I thought it sounded like something off CSI) he confirms that the age things is incorrect, a misprint, and that the cheque is definitely for me, I definitely had OPI on that period of time (he tells me it was sold to me (and this I didn’t quite understand) AFTER the bank stopped selling PPI on their products??? WTF???...Anyway he ends with, so MR XXXXX you can cash the cheque as is your choice, I can confirm it is valid and genuine and we will send out another letter with the correct wording in due course.

I am sitting here thinking, well that’s nice for me, a £40 bonus I had not been expecting,

a couple of beers and wines and pizzas for me and the missus

and a bit of fish for the cats, lovely and change left over for lottery ticket…

 

But then, my brain says hold on here a minute buddy, is this right,

how do you know they only owe you £40,

you don’t know anything about this,

they could have just plucked this number out the air hoping you won’t ask any questions,

they never asked you anything, they just sent a cheque, why would they do this…you get the idea…

 

Which leads me here…

I am wondering still, should I look into this more?

 

 

What are the chances they owe me more?

I don’t believe they would owe me less of course,

but I assume if I cash this cheque,

this is as good me saying, yeah

I agree with you,

£40 is all you owe me and I won’t ask for more.

 

When is the 8% interest supposed to take from? Sound like a paltry amount to me for 4 years of them sitting on my £30…and to be fair, the figure may well be correct, but I just figure I should maybe ask a few folks in the know before jumping in and ordering a meat feast and a 6 pack of Carling...

 

So really what I am asking you all is this, is this worth pursuing, saying, hey Co-Op I don’t want this £40 right now, but I want more info? How do I figure out how much they should owe me? IS the number they have given me £40 is quid correct based on the £30 OPI they say I paid?

 

Thoughts and advice on this would be most appreciated…

 

Thanks all…

 

mrbrooks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you need all the statements

 

 

sar them.

 

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

DX thanks for the response...

 

do you reckon they are holding back?

Or You just reckon its worth finding out what they know before cashing any cheques?

 

 

Like I said in previous post, I had no idea about this,

the cheque just turned Friday and I thought about it over the weekend,

 

 

called Smile/Co-Op Monday and here I am..

.I find a bit odd that there was no questionnaires,

no contact

no nothing about the situation prior to its arrival,

but then maybe that's how things are done these days???

 

Now if i write to them to tell them I am at this time not going to accept their offer of this 'out of blue' cheque,

do you recommend any template for such a response?

I have the SAR template, but I am addressing to things here now,

 

1 I am not accepting this cheque as a settlement at this time and am considering my options.

2 I am presenting a SAR.

 

Now in relation to item 1,

The cheque,

Do I send it back?

Keep it?

Tear it up?

Cash it?

Copy it and file it? ..

 

 

. Also, am I putting myself in an awkward spot by not accepting it?

 

 

Can they refuse to play ball if I discover in fact that they have been fair

and I have already refused their offer?

 

 

Where does not accepting the cheque at this point leave me, other than without pizza and beer?

 

In relation to item 2, I have a SAR template so this is ok, I will fill that out and send it off ASAP...

 

Thanks again

 

mrbrooks

 

***EDIT***

 

I am having a bit of a struggle finding an address to SAR them that is not a PO Box, if we send to PO Box don't we have issues with Signed For Mail???

Edited by mrbrooks
Co-op/Smile Address

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

there nowt wrong with cashing the cheque

there nowt on the letter that states by accepting it

that seals a full & final settlement.

 

 

you nor they nor I can check its correct without seeing the data they used to calculate the redress.

 

 

dx


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi dx, thanks for reply.

 

there nowt wrong with cashing the cheque
- Agreed

 

there nowt on the letter that states by accepting it that seals a full & final settlement.
- Agreed

 

I am gonna cash it...

 

You nor they nor I can check its correct without seeing the data they used to calculate the redress.
- Agreed

 

I have done the SAR, and since I have not banked with Smile for more than a year now I have included proof of my ID using my Business CC statements for June 2015 and my phone and internet bill for June 2015...

 

My only concern is that I would (As advised in the past) send the SAR as Signed For Delivery ... However I can only seem to find PO Box numbers for Co-operative, which poses a problem with Signed delivery...

 

The address currently on the letter is:

 

Subject Access Request Team,

PO Box 200,

Skelmersdale

WN8 6GH

 

Once I figure out if its OK to send without Signed For or get another non POBox address then I will fire it off as soon as...

 

Another note, it says on the website for smile, send a cheque, say nothing about a Postal Order, I assume its OK still to send a PO?

Thanks again...

 

mrbrooks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1

ballon street

manachester

M60 4EP

 

 

you don't need recorded nowadays

use free proof of posting from the PO counter


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi dx thanks for that, will get the SAR and other documents printed out and sent out this afternoon...

 

mrbrooks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...