Lowell/BW claim form old Lloyds Tsb current joint account

[yamamoto]

HI,

 

I'm after a little advice on the following and where i stand etc.

 

This all relates to a Lloyds bank account held between 2001 and 2008

 

In 2006 i attempred to get back approx £5k worth of charges from Lloyds

- i never took it to court as i could not afford the initial court fees at the time

so only went as far as issuing a letter before action ti which i got the general "go away" letter back from Lloyds.

 

sometime between 2007 and 2008 lloyds allowed me to go overdrawn and this spiralled out of controll

- when they closed the accoung in 2008 i was £1100 overdrawn and

 

this was mainly due to unplanned overdraught fees and interest etc

- the initial figure that hiad actually gone overdrawn by was only £100 or so

but with wages not covering the excess fully each month it soon shot up to the £1100 figure.

 

between 2008 and 2012

 

i had letters from lloyds and various debt collection agencies trying to get it back

- my reply was always that the figure was made up of excessive charges and i welcomed them to take me to court

so that i could conterclaim on account of the charges from the overdraught AND the previous 5k of charges from 2001 - 2006

- they never took it as far as any kind of court action and was generally just a long line of threat-o-grams.

 

In June 2013 the alleged debt was SOLD to lowel finance and

 

i told them that i didnt recognise the debt as it was made up of charges dating back to 2001 (explained the whole thing to them) and

they needed to prove that i owed the money.

 

in December 2013 they finally got back to me with their "proof" that the debt was owed

and this was in the form of a years worth of statements between 2007 and 2008.

 

So a couple of questions ...

 

1 - What else can i do to delay and ask for more evidence

- A statement of account surely just shows what went in and out of the account etc

and doesnt nessasarily show that X is owed, why its owed, how its made up etc ( or does it and is it enough ? )

- should there be a CCA or similar ?

 

2 - The last entry on the statement when the account was closed was march 2008

- will this become statute barred in March 2014 ?

or would it become statute barred earlier

- for example when i originally went in to unplanned overdraught

- or maybe later when they first sent a default notice ?

 

3 - and finally

- do i actually have ANY kind of defence with my stance that the majority of the amount owed was from unplanned overdraught fees

and that that i may have a counterclaim for unfair fees going back to 2001 ?

 

Any help would be appreciated

 

D

[dx100uk]

i'm sure if Lloyds could have taken you to court via their solicitors - SCM

they would have done.

 

that speaks volumes.

 

how have you been communicating with lowlife?

not by phone I hope.

 

i'd knock up a spreadsheet

at the OD int rate

 

showing what you would use to counterclaim.

 

CISheet v101.xls

[fkofilee]

1st off... the case of unfair penalty fees etc only applies to Penalties...

As you might know in 2009 there was a court case for this and the court ruled in the Banks favour here.

 

Could you please post up the letter that they sent back with the statements? remove all personal info.

A CCA agreement doesnt apply to the bank account but the overdraft it does.

[yamamoto]

thanks both,

 

DX100uk - contact has been a mixture of letters and phone over the years.

 

I am of the same opinion re lloyds taking me to court and in the past

 

i had hoped they would of taken me to court so i could of counter claim

but with the court finding in the banks favour i fear that boat may of passed.

 

Fkofile

 

All the letter states is as follows:

we write in respect of the above debt which we have purchased from lloyds.

 

We would advise that after lloyds removed the account from their systems,

interest or charges were applied to the account which wiil not be shown on the enclosed statement.

We have confirmed with the original creditor that the outstanding balance is correct after these have been added to the account.

 

We are now entitled to receive payment of the balance of £11XX.XX from you and enclose a copy of your statement as requested.

 

please kindly make payment of the outstanding debt blah blah blah

that was sent mid december and since then ive had two "you have not contacted us" threat letters.

I have had no other proof what so ever, cca or otherwise.

 

from looking at the the original letters and statements it seems that after going over drawn they gave me an overdraft of £250

- anything over that is made up of overdraft excess fees which vary between £30 and £165 a month

and overdraft interest which at its greatest is a sum of £12

[fkofilee]

Thats complete bull they have sent... Just sending statements saying there is "Account Usage"! Thats not on...

You need them to provide you proof of the balance actually getting to that stage... I would personally send a response saying

 

"Hiya twitts...

 

Thanks for the useless info, you havent complied with what i asked you!

Send it otherwise nothing is going to happen"

 

Lowell are getting desperate... I can feel it with this one.

Give them one final warning to provide proof as what they have given you is clearly not.

 

It shows random account usage from a selected period.... Thats not right for claiming you "OWE" a debt,

[yamamoto]

Thats complete bull they have sent... Just sending statements saying there is "Account Usage"! Thats not on...

You need them to provide you proof of the balance actually getting to that stage... I would personally send a response saying

 

"Hiya twitts...

 

Thanks for the useless info, you havent complied with what i asked you!

Send it otherwise nothing is going to happen"

 

Lowell are getting desperate... I can feel it with this one.

Give them one final warning to provide proof as what they have given you is clearly not.

 

It shows random account usage from a selected period.... Thats not right for claiming you "OWE" a debt,

 

thanks - thats what i thought to be honest

[fkofilee]

Well think about it, if were given a receipt, it legally has to have a breakdown of what was bought with individual prices, and then the total etc etc...

Same thing with this... Its like an invoice for £1100... But you cant see how the £1100 came about, they've just given you a random figure.

 

You need proof of those transactions which made the balance £1100!

[yamamoto]

so can you ask for a CCA and send the general cca request letter in relation to Over draughts ?

[fkofilee]

In theory, yes you can...

Overdrafts come under section 10 of the Consumer Credit Act.

 

10.—(1) For the purposes of this Act—

(a) running-account credit is a facility under a personal credit agreement whereby

the debtor is enabled to receive from time to time (whether in his own person, or

by another person) from the creditor or a third party cash, goods and services (or

any of them) to an amount or value such that, taking into account payments

made by or to the credit of the debtor, the credit limit (if any) is not at any time

exceeded; and

(b) fixed-sum credit is any other facility under a personal credit agreement whereby

the debtor is enabled to receive credit (whether in one amount or by

instalments).

(2) In relation to running-account credit, " credit limit" means, as respects any period,

the maximum debit balance which, under the credit agreement, is allowed to stand on

the account during that period, disregarding any term of the agreement allowing that

maximum to be exceeded merely temporarily.

(3) For the purposes of section 8(2), running-account credit shall be taken not to

exceed the amount specified in that subsection (" the specified amount") if—

(a) the credit limit does not exceed the specified amount; or

(b) whether or not there is a credit limit, and if there is, notwithstanding that it

exceeds the specified amount,—

(i) the debtor is not enabled to draw at any one time an amount which, so far as

(having regard to section 9(4)) it represents credit, exceeds the specified

amount, or

(ii) the agreement provides that, if the debit balance rises above a given

amount (not exceeding the specified amount), the rate of the total charge for

credit increases or any other condition favouring the creditor or his associate

comes into operation, or

(iii) at the time the agreement is made it is probable, having regard to the

terms of the agreement and any other relevant considerations, that the debit

balance will not at any time rise above the specified amount.

[AndyOrch]

so can you ask for a CCA and send the general cca request letter in relation to Over draughts ?

 

 

No its not applicable to Current Accounts/Overdrafts.

 

 

Andy

[fkofilee]

I thought you could because it does fall under the Consumer Credit Act

[AndyOrch]

They are exempt except for Part V.

 

 

1.1 What is covered by the s74 determination?

 

A determination under s74(3) was made by the OFT with effect from 1 February 1990. It applies to d-c agreements enabling the debtor to overdraw on a current account, under which the creditor is a ‘bank’ as defined in the Bankers’ Books Evidence Act 1879, provided that certain conditions are satisfied – see Q1.5.

 

A separate determination was made in respect of certain agreements connected with the death of a person.

 

Copies of the determinations may be obtained from the OFT.

 

Agreements covered by a s74(3) determination, and satisfying the relevant conditions, are exempt from most Part V rules including s61(1) on execution. However, the Agreements Regulations will apply to any document embodying such an agreement, and to any term expressed in writing – see Q1.2.

 

1.2 Are all bank overdrafts exempt?

 

The s74 determination in respect of bank overdrafts (see Q1.4) applies subject to the following conditions:

· the creditor must inform the OFT in writing of his general intention to enter into such agreements;

· the debtor must be informed, at or before the time an agreement is concluded, of the following:

o the credit limit (if any)

o the annual rate of interest and any charges applicable, and the conditions under which these may be varied

o the procedure for terminating the agreement;

· the above information must be confirmed in writing.

 

Furthermore, where a debtor overdraws a current account with the tacit agreement of the creditor, and the account remains overdrawn for more than three months, the creditor must inform the debtor in writing not later than seven days after the end of that period of the annual rate of interest and any charges applicable.

[yamamoto]

where do i stand on the statute barred side of things ? Can an overdraght become statute barred and if so what would activate the start of the 6 years ?

 

i realise i may have to pay this but ive always felt that lloyds reluctance to take it to court despite them and many DCA's threatening it meant i did have something in my favour or something was amiss so anything i can do to frustrate or delay - especially as its been sold to lowell would be handy lol

[AndyOrch]

You don't do anything...ignore until you receive a claim form then challenge it.

 

 

Andy

[yamamoto]

You don't do anything...ignore until you receive a claim form then challenge it.

 

 

Andy

 

if it was facebook that would be a big thumbsup lol

 

i shall keep reading the forum and see what happens re lowell then and report back when i hear again

 

cheers for advice everyone

[yamamoto]

BIt of an update,

had the dreaded court summons from Northampton today

- Lowel still havent sent me any other proof other than a partial copy of statements

and its my wife that is named on the court papers and that has had all the hassle from Lowels

 

but it was a joint account

 

- so should lowel be dealing with both of us or can they just chose to take on partner to court ?

 

any help and advice gladly received thanks

[yamamoto]

HI - just a quick question relating to a debt that is both mine and my partners name ( joint bank account overdraft).

 

the DCA is only chasing my wife - and she is the only one named on the court summons - is this ok or should it be both of us as it was a joint account ?

[dx100uk]

moved to legals

 

 

please fill out the following

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-April-2014**

[yamamoto]

Details as requested in link above :

 

Name of Claimant - Lowell Portfolio I ltd

 

Date of Issue - 15th April 2014

 

POC - This claim is for 1191.XX the amount due under an agreement between the original creditor and the defendant to provide finance and / or goods.

This debt was assigned to / purchased by Lowell Portfolio I ltd on XX/07/2013 and notice served pursuant to the law of property act 1925.

Particulars RE Lloyds Acc no XXXXXXXXX

 

And tthe claimant claims 1191.XX

 

The claimant also claims interest pursuant to S69 County court acs 1984 from XX/07/2013 to date at 8% per annum amounting to £74.44

 

value of the claim - £total amount is £1411.XX which is made up of amount claimed £1266.XX + Court fee £65 and solicitors cost £80

 

Claim is for charges on an overdraft

 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007? - unknown as lowell will only provide us with bank statements between 2007 and 2008 which only show overdraft charges being added and do not show a paticular date of going overdrawn or using an overdraft

 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. - No issued by Lowell but originally a lloyds overdraft

 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? - YEs aware - interestingly - the notice of assignment letter says it was sold to lowells in 06/13 - the notice was recieved by us in 09/13 and the particulars of claim on court papers say they brought it in 07/13

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? unknown

 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? not to my knowledge

 

Why did you cease payments:- as first post in thread - it was the time when the bank charges were going through courts and we stopped putting money into bank account as charges were becoming unmanageable

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Bank charges dispute from 2006 ish

 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt managementicon plan? yes to first part and NO to second

 

hope that helps ?

[yamamoto]

Oh and finally - The court papers and all correspondance has been ONLY to my wife even though it was a joint account

[AndyOrch]

Either party can be sued ...joint or separately as the debt is joint and several.

 

Andy

[citizenB]

It was my understanding if a debt is in joint names then the claim should be issued in joint names. At the same time however, they are allowed to pursue you together or individually.

 

Who was the first named on the account ?

 

Your timeline is as follows..

 

Issue date 15 April + 5 days for service = 18 April + 14 days to acknowledge claim = 02 May + 14 days to submit defence = 16 May 2014.

 

You need to send hte following letter to the solicitor named on the claim form in order to obtain any documents that are mentioned in the claim form.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?387483-LEGAL-CPR-31.14-Request-when-Claim-is-being-made-for-a-Current-Account(1-Viewing)-nbsp

 

Send by recorded delivery mail

[yamamoto]

Cheers for the link - I was the first name on the account Mr ...and Mrs ....

 

i shall sort out the letter shortly and get it sent tomorrow

[AndyOrch]

Make sure you use the correct CPR 31 .... the one for overdrafts.

[yamamoto]

Had the following letter back in reply to the cpr request:

 

We write further to your letter dated blah blah

 

We confirm the claim form was issued by the XX county court bulk centre and the courts protocol was followed when issuing the claimants particulars of claim. Practice direction 7c point 1.4 (3a) eliminates the requirment to attach the documents to the particulars of claim when they are issued by this court.

 

We confirm this matter will most properly be allocated to the small claims ctrack as this is a simple contractual matter and part 31 of the civil procedure rules will therefore not apply. in any event the notice of default and assignment left the control of the claimant when they were dispatched to you.

 

It i the original creditors policy to issue agreements at the start of the contract and statements throughout the duration of the agreements and, in this regard, we ask you to refer to your own records.

 

We confirm our client is not agreeable to an extension for filing your defence.

 

We confirm we are in receipt of your acknowledgment of service. Please respond to the claim using the response pack provided by the court. Comply with the deadlines to avoid a default judgement being entered

 

we reccomemnd you seek independant legal advice

 

Yours sincerely

 

So i get from that that either they have not got all the correct paperwork or they are just frustrating matters in the hope i give in

 

So what next then ?