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    • Hmm yes I see your point about proof of postage but nonetheless... "A Notice to Keeper can be served by ordinary post and the Protection of Freedoms Act requires that the Notice, to be valid,  must be delivered either (Where a notice to driver (parking ticket) has been served) Not earlier than 28 days after, nor more than 56 days after, the service of that notice to driver; or (Where no notice to driver has been served (e.g ANPR is used)) Not later than 14 days after the vehicle was parked A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales." My question there is really what might constitute proof? Since you say the issue of delivery is a common one I suppose that no satisfactory answer has been established or you would probably have told me.
    • I would stand your ground and go for the interest. Even if the interest is not awarded you will get the judgement and the worst that might happen is that you won't get your claim fee.  However, it is almost inevitable that you will get the interest.  It is correct that it is at the discretion of the judge but the discretion is almost always exercised in favour of the claimant in these cases.  I think you should stand your ground and don't give even the slightest penny away Another judgement against them on this issue would be very bad for them and they would be really stupid to risk it but if they did, it would cost them far more than the interest they are trying to save which they will most likely have to pay anyway
    • Yep, true to form, they are happy to just save a couple of quid... They invariably lose in court, so to them, that's a win. 😅
    • Your concern regarding the 14 days delivery is a common one. Not been on the forum that long, but I don't think the following thought has ever been challenged. My view is that they should have proof of when it was posted, not when they "issued", or printed it. Of course, they would never show any proof of postage, unless it went to court. Private parking companies are simply after money, and will just keep sending ever more threatening letters to intimidate you into paying up. It's not been mentioned yet, but DO NOT APPEAL! You could inadvertently give up useful legal protection and they will refuse any appeal, because they're just after the cash...  
    • The sign says "Parking conditions apply 24/7". Mind you, that's after a huge wall of text. The whole thing is massively confusing.  Goodness knows what you're meant to do if you spend only a fiver in Iceland or you stay a few minutes over the hour there.
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Ambiguous notice ?


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I have often seen on more then one occasion a notice on a card machine on a train platform that states it is a legal requirement to purchase a ticket before boarding the train. I would like to know that in the absence of a ticket office and there being no requirement to use a card for payment how it would be possible to pay for a ticket in advance of travel.

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I see machines for permits for travel where you put in what cash you have to show you are making the effort. There is one at warwick parkway.

 

I know the ones you means. That serves the purpose of covering one legally until your journey ends. What I am getting at is implying a legal obligation exists but with no way of fulfilling such..

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Hello CD.

 

This has been covered many times on threads here, if yo have a read around.

 

From memory, if you are really unable to buy a ticket before you board the train, you need to find a ticket inspector on the train in order to buy one.

 

I'm sure the forum regulars will be along to comment.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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I have often seen on more then one occasion a notice on a card machine on a train platform that states it is a legal requirement to purchase a ticket before boarding the train. I would like to know that in the absence of a ticket office and there being no requirement to use a card for payment how it would be possible to pay for a ticket in advance of travel.

 

If you have a payment card, with sufficient funds attached to the account you should use the machine prior to travel. The railway would have provided a facility for you to purchase the appropriate ticket, and if you elect not to use that, then you are on some dodgy ground.

 

If you genuinely have no valid cards, and 100% certain, no other options are available such as PERTIS, ticket office etc, you must buy your ticket at the first available oppertunity, which may include seeking out the conductor or revenue staff- I.e. you shouldn't just wait for them to (try and) find you.

 

If you failed to use a card only achine, and tried to pay by card on board then you would DEFINITELY be on dodgy ground and liable to prosecution.

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Further to this issue, The notice would state the legal obligation to purchase before boarding the train but then giving you the option at the end of the notice to pay on the train. In my opinion that is an ambiguous notice unless I'm mistaken and would be a defense in a court not to use the card machine..

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If there is a card only machine and you have a card that has sufficient funds then it's fairly obvious that you must purchase a ticket from said machine before boarding the train.

 

If you only carry cash you must seek out a conductor on the train as far as I am aware.

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The reason it is a legal obligation is that it if you board a train with a ticket, you have an express contract with the railway company; if you board without one, you have an implied contract- but still a contract. Since the company's half of the contract (you being transported) is being fulfilled on the one hand, you then have the afore-mentioned 'obligation' to fulfil your part of it: by paying for it. Which is non-negotiable, so has to be paid for, and that is up to the passenger, rather than the company. So, if you do not have the means of payment the company wants (or, indeed, have one it doesn't want, e.g., often an Electron card), you should not travel. If there is a MoP available prior to travelling, then the co. doesn't care if you've got the money; you need to have actually spent it on 'them' first.

 

Know wot I mean.

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If there is a card only machine and you have a card that has sufficient funds then it's fairly obvious that you must purchase a ticket from said machine before boarding the train.

 

 

 

If you only carry cash you must seek out a conductor on the train as far as I am aware.

 

I disagree as if I have a card, it can be used for other reasons other than a machine transaction so with that I do not believe it is obvious that I have to use that card before I board the train..

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Yes, but card machine does not accept cash..

 

Which is missing the point; it is NOT up to the passenger to decide how to pay for his journey. S/he either pays, or does not travel. End of. It is a legal contract between the passenger and the railway company.

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Yes, but card machine does not accept cash..

 

Fair enough, but if you don't want to use the system that is there to use, I would say you need to make other arrangements.

 

Forgive me, but didn't we start this thread about ambiguous notices?

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Which is missing the point; it is NOT up to the passenger to decide how to pay for his journey. S/he either pays, or does not travel. End of. It is a legal contract between the passenger and the railway company.

 

I hear what your saying but does not help those individuals that for what ever reason can't use the machine..

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Fair enough, but if you don't want to use the system that is there to use, I would say you need to make other arrangements.

 

Forgive me, but didn't we start this thread about ambiguous notices?

 

HB

 

Some people might not be able to use the machine.

 

Yes it did start with the point of ambiguous notices, it just developed really..

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Some people might not be able to use the machine.

 

Yes it did start with the point of ambiguous notices, it just developed really..

 

 

 

 

If you know you can't use the machine then carry cash with you!

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