wrongfully suspended - ** RESOLVED WITH FWW **

[MARKIE1]

Hello, I've returned to work yesterday, only to walk through the door and get suspended, the reasons given,

were for allegedly making threats to the business and/or individuals.

 

So let me give as much background as I can, I was off work for nine weeks with depression.

My employer insisted I saw the oc.nurse, attended 'meetings' about my situation (with a manager) and also offered the services of a counsellor,which I agreed to.

I met the nurse a few times, and in one the the meetings(with my manager and a member of HR), I refused to see the nurse anymore, because I felt she was hampering any recovery.

I was told this was not possible and I would have to see her again. My manager offered to go with me (at my next app), I agreed purely to have a witness,

I was immediately challenged on why I needed some there. Once returning to work(after my sickness) I have seen the nurse a few time and feel she is now being supportive.

 

Before my sickness I had booked holiday's (which ended up been the last week of my sickness) I was informed by HR, because I had not cancelled holidays,

I had to take them as holidays and not sick pay(even though my sick note covered this time).I did lose my temper (by raising my voice, but not shouting).

I eventually wrote a grievance letter and had my holidays reinstated.

 

Obviously these two instances where 'upsetting' to me and I discussed it with the counsellor, I have had 6 sessions with her - 2 of which where at her house. We were supposed to schedule 2 more,

but because of christmas these have been sidelined. she is the one who has made these allegations against me,

for threats against the nurse,HR rep. and the company.

 

But at no time did I indicate harm to anyone/anything, yesterday I was read quotes, I has supposedly made, but Its not what I have said!

 

I am not expecting to keep my job, as Its her word against mine.

 

But is there anything I can do? other than just sit back and wait.

 

thanks in advance

MARK

[Emmzzi]

hello,

 

was it stated that the counselling meetings were confidential?

 

I know when I have been depressed I have sometimes not been the best judge of people's motives. Is that possible with the nurse maybe - that as you feel better she seems more helpful?

[MARKIE1]

yes the meetings were confidential in the most part, but I was told at the first meeting that certain things could be shared with the company and/or police.

 

as far as the nurse goes, while I was off, her concern was only to get me back to work asap - this she told me on more than one occasion.

 

thanx for the reply

 

mark

[orfoster]

Hello,

 

Just to clarify, you haven't been wrongly suspended. While its up for debate in the courts whether suspension is a neutral act as it stands you aren't at a detriment while being suspended. I wouldn't allege your employer is wrongfully suspending you (if the issue arises). Its important to focus on the likely investigation that is gonna take place.

 

Firstly, who does the nurse work for? The other thing is, I would certainly question the issue of confidentiality, if you'd threatened death upon someone or something very serious or made a disclosure of a safeguarding nature I could understand why the confidentiality may be breached but under the circumstances based on what you've told me I am concerned she has breached confidentiality.

 

How long have you been employed there? What is the nature of your work?

 

Thanks

 

O

[MARKIE1]

hi orfoster

 

i do understand my bad titling of the thread.

 

to clear up what could be a bit of confusion there is a nurse (employed by the company) and also a counsellor(payed by the company but independent) it is the counsellor who reported to work "i hated' the nurse and the HR rep.

and that is why, she believes i could be a threat.

 

I have worked there for about 5 years and never had a problem, it is a food manufacturing co.

 

I cant really see what type of investigation they could have, other than to question me and then question the counsellor. what I find strange is my last meeting with the counsellor was Nov 29th. But this was only reported to the company last week.

 

thanks Mark

[ScarletPimpernel]

A counsellor should explain, at the outset of your sessions, the boundaries, and specifically the circumstances in which confidentiality could be breached. Paying for counselling doesn't entitle an employer to any information about what was discussed.

[MARKIE1]

yes the meetings were confidential in the most part, but I was told at the first meeting that certain things could be shared with the company and/or police.

 

 

 

 

she did tell me, scarletpimpernal, but it took her 3 weeks to inform work.

 

I should point out I never said I hated the nurse or HR rep. but that was part of her report to work.

 

mark

[ericsbrother]

It seems to me that the counsellor is abusing a position of trust by reporting the contents of the sessions without your express written consent. Are they medfically qualified? if so then their actions can be challenged as a breach of the Access to medical records act. You also have a right to see those records passed on before your employer gets them so demand a copy and if they are inaccurate to a point of being libellous there is nothing you can do to get them corrected ( mediacal opinion, regardless of how wrong and even if maliciously so is opinion and not actionable) but you can prevent them being acted upon by others as there is no compusion on their part to do so.

I would be telling your employer that you will be choosing a different professional to discuss things with and they will be told only as much as you allow them to be told other than as required by law (which is very little).

[MARKIE1]

hi ericsbrother, I have already looked into this side of the argument. if a counsellor believes you are a danger then they can break confidentiality, without permission. she has told my work i could be a danger to 2 others and also to the business itself. I do think whatever I said to give her concerns, she should of probed further rather than jumping to conclusions.

 

The quotes I do remember were:-

'I hated these two people'.(which I never said, and THAT is hardly a threat)

'When I leave, I will leave with a bang'.(ok that could be a threat, but again I never said it)

'when I leave, I will receive a payout'.(this was the only thing, that was even close to what I said.......)

if you read my OP, where I mention raising my voice at the HR rep.Work really played on this and made me think they would fire me. I said if they fire me , I would take it to tribunal and I would win.

 

 

I still have not heard anything further from work, and do not know whether to take the 'constructive dismissal' route.

 

could anyone give some advice on that?

 

Mark

[Emmzzi]

there is pretty much no chance you'd win constructive dismissal just for being suspended

 

remember there is also the tone of how you said what you said to be taken into account, as well as what you said outside of counselling

 

Are you sure you are well enough to be dealing with this just now? I would be talking to my GP/ a specialist for support.

[MARKIE1]

thank you for your advice emmzzi, I have seen my gp again,

 

finally have a date for my DH. What they seem to want, is for me to prove that I have not said anything threatening. How can I do this? Really its the counsellors word against mine. They will not let me have any witnesses or any statements. They wont allow me to contact my counsellor to get copies of my session notes.

also I have a strong belief they have more 'evidence' which they are not forwarding on to me. It would seem not investigation has taken place, as i have not received any documentation since my suspension.

 

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions to help a very very desperate person?

 

thanks in advance

 

mark

[Emmzzi]

I think thee is a huge difference between "letting off steam" in a counselling situation and actually meaning it.

 

There's no point calling the counsellor a liar - you will not win that one. But, if you had unfortunately phrased things badly while letting off steam? That's a different matter.

 

Does your doctor think you are a danger?

 

Would you be happy to be assessed by an actual psychiatrist if they were worried?

 

Would you be willing to take anger management classes?

[smokejumper]

As you have been informed of a hearing date, did they not also state the exact allegations and supply copies of all documentation they will be relying on.

 

Sadly though and don't wish to be making your anxiety worse, yes it does seem that it will be your word against hers, however their conclusion is judged on probability. They will give more credibility to her due to perceiving that a professional person is right or doesn't lie ( although we only have to turn on the tv or read a newspaper, to know this perception is untrue ).

 

If this is the actual hearing , then you need to request the documents they are relying on and then try and find something to disprove them. Another idea, ask them to ask for the notes of the session, they are roughly written at the time, not verbatim and by the time they are written up properly can not be accurate ( a type of Chinese whispers ) .

 

Do you have much time to prepare.

 

I was accused ( may have been true ;-) ) of something similar, threatening and abusive to a doctor. I told them I required the doctor to be present and questioned at the hearing, she refused and they had to drop the allegation.

 

You might continue in that direction, you will need more information to defend yourself, if they are blocking this then it is not natural justice.

[Emmzzi]

for most other cases I would follow smokejumper's advice but you do need to be extra careful as you are accused of aggressive behaviour. Therefore you need to couch your requirements in very soft language. Even better if you can get a union rep to make the requests for you...

[MARKIE1]

thanks for the replies,

No i dont think my doctor thinks i am a danger, at least he has never shown signs of concern.ie he never asked me to clarify any of my statements. As far as the assessment by a psychiatrist and the anger management, I think that would be a far request by my employer, so the answer is yes to both.

 

 

@smokejumper-"did they not also state the exact allegations and supply copies of all documentation they will be relying on."

in my DH invitation letter, its wording seems unclear it states

"the hearing will be held to discuss your alleged conduct, where the counsellor, X has reported to the business that at you appointments with her, she has interpreted your conversations as a potential threat to the business and certain employees of the business.One of the purposes of the disciplinary hearing will be to decide what, if anything, you said to the counsellor and what effect that has on you future employment"

 

I have asked for the counsellors notes( through HR, as i am not allowed to contact her), HR told me, the counsellor is unwilling to give the notes to myself or the business (unlawful I think). These notes where not written during my sessions,but presumably straight after. HR restated that I am NOT to contact the counsellor.

 

I was told I have ALL the evidence, that been notes on the conversation between the counsellor and HR(initial allegations) and the notes taken at my suspension meeting.thats all I have received.

 

thanks Mark

[smokejumper]

I highly respect any advice given by Emmzzi,

 

My advice at any time is only from experience and studying for my own representation, saying that I am and have been in a lot of trouble.But I would consider Emmzzi, much more knowledgeable than me and diplomatic.

 

Emmzzi mentioned Union, I didn't realise you were in a union, they should be doing all the work for you and negotiations.

 

I do tend to have a very aggressive approach to everything I do, I don't mean too, but it comes across as that, it means I get peoples back up and have to work even harder with my defences on these matters, if I'm right and have evidence to back it up then it doesn't matter that I upset them.

 

Far better to ( if you can) be polite and civil as Emmzzii rightly advises. Like a salesman, although he's selling you a car you want him to be polite.

 

I'm more like Bob Crow in the railway union , but then I do have an illness.

 

I think you might need to take out a grievance as they are not ( in my opinion) allowing you a fair process.

 

Another thing, the letter is very vague. I can't decide if this is still an investigation meeting or the actual hearing. It's not set out like any I've received. Usually the allegation would be something like" gross misconduct that on xmas eve you informed X that you intended to disrupt the business, etc, etc.

 

Also I'm not sure about you having all the documents, they need to give you the documents they are relying on and you have to do the same.

 

they should also state your right to be accompanied and the possible outcome of the hearing ie: dismissal.

 

This grievance might also have to be heard before the actual hearing and buy you time, but then your union show know all this.

[MARKIE1]

hi all, i need to clarify a few things,

 

1 - I am not a member of a union(mores the pity)

2 - I only quoted part of the DH invitation letter, there is more in it, but nothing more about the allegation.

3 - The letter does state it is a disciplinary hearing.

 

thanks again

Mark

 

PS By nature I am a quite person.

[Emmzzi]

is the "more in it" evidence about other things?

[MARKIE1]

hi, no not at all its about time, date(14th),venue who will attend,and the information that i have received etc.

NO 'evidence'!

 

thanks mark

[Emmzzi]

Well, you will just need to wait and see. I might follow smokejumper's suggestion but drop them a letter (keep a copy) asking that, as the interview record does not seem to be included, the counsellor be present to have a discussion. It's easier to be calm in a letter

[MARKIE1]

Hi all, I get frustrated when people dont let you know the outcome of their situation, so I thought I would bring everyone up to date with mine.

 

Had my DH this morning @ 9.45. it lasted until 11.45 included break.

long and short of it I got 12 months final written warning, which I am happy about(at least I still have a job)

 

I would like to thank everyone for their advice and support,

and to wish others good luck in their quest for fairness.

 

 

again thanks Mark

[honeybee13]

Hi Mark.

 

Thank you for letting us know. I'm very relieved for you, I bet you're glad it's all over.

 

Thread title amended.

 

HB

[Sidewinder]

Well done - keep your head down and get on with it!

[Emmzzi]

Fab. Now no more favours for mates!!