Court summons

[cythis]

Due to suffering horrible social anxiety, I've come back to this forum for some advice on what to do.

 

I received a Court summons in the post for 'failing' to pay off an Unpaid fare notice of £8.90 for a journey I made 6 months ago.

 

Contrary to their records,

I paid this off on the evening I received it, to a member of staff at the the station I was returning home from.

 

Here's a summary of what happened:-

 

I took a train to see a friend from an unstaffed station with no ticket machine,

one that I had used regularly and was used to paying for my ticket to the conductor.

 

On this date, my card decided it was going to pull a silly and my transaction was declined twice.

I took the little blue notice stating I'd been unable to pay happily,

understanding that I, from what I was told the being the best thing to do was to go to a ticket office as soon as possible to pay it off,

would do such and pay for my transportation that way as I had no other means to pay on the train.

 

When I arrived at my destination I decided I would make the most of the short time I had to spend with my friend,

and hopefully pay off the notice at the station before I caught my train home.

 

When it was time to head home, I visited the ticket office from the station I was departing from

and the member of rail staff took away my Unpaid Fare Notice.

 

I was charged a return ticket to my card to and from the destination of the journey

I received the notice for, and issued me with the usual OUT and RTN rail tickets.

 

Thinking this was all over,

I didn't have the notice and I had paid for my ticket,

 

I was shocked to have received two warnings in the post stating I hadn't paid,

the first asking for the ticket price + £x,

as to which I ignored as I believed my notice might not have been processed yet.

 

The second I received with a surprisingly larger fine + the ticket price,

I replied to with a letter stating the exact account of the events that had happened,

along with times and photocopies of the tickets that I have in front of me now.

 

I heard no reply from them, presuming this was sorted

 

I was even more surprised to receive this in the post, a summons to court over a £8.90 train ticket I apparently have not paid.

 

Soon as I got this, I had a friend ring the rail company and

they said that the time on my ticket was after when I was issued the notice and it was invalid..

even thought she'd explained that I'd handed the fine to the ticket office and was given this in return.

 

He then proceeded to tell me that so sort it would cost me the £100 fine as demanded in the 2nd letter.

 

I believe I'm completely innocent,

I paid off the price of my ticket to the rail company,

and it seems the only way is going to court and pleading not guilty.

I can't for the life of me afford the £100 fine.

 

Now what I've come to ask is what sort of odds do I stand, wining this case?

 

I have the tickets I was issued,

a bank statement with the transaction details for the tickets on my card.

 

My next move will be to request the name off staff working at the time I got my ticket,

and perhaps some cctv footage of myself taking in the notice, and handing it to the staff.

 

As of now I'm bricking it, knowing I'll end up suffering some sort of panic attack standing up in court,

but I refuse to be bullied by Northern Rail into paying £108.90 they're demanding..

. or as the summons says; for the value of the £8.90 train ticket. WHICH I PAID!

 

I'd appreciate any advice into what I should do next.

If I end up in court I will be representing myself.

 

Will the evidence I have be enough?

What do I do now?

 

Should I write out the details again in a letter to the court with my plee for not guilty? (excuse my panicing).

 

How can I get out of this in good standing?

 

Thank you very much if you read all this!

[renegadeimp]

If you have got a court summon,s the best thing you can do is head on to the court with all evidence and let the judge decide. He isnt there to take your side, or to take the train companies side. He is there to make sure the case is dealt with fairly and correctly. if you have paid it, and you have proof, then it would be up to the judge to decide if you are liable for admin costs.

 

Reading back on your post, you said you paid the ticket after the penalty was issued. Did you pay the penalty too? Im not too sure, but they may be bale to get you on strict liability. You didnt have a ticket at the time, so the penalty is just.

[cythis]

If you have got a court summon,s the best thing you can do is head on to the court with all evidence and let the judge decide. He isnt there to take your side, or to take the train companies side. He is there to make sure the case is dealt with fairly and correctly. if you have paid it, and you have proof, then it would be up to the judge to decide if you are liable for admin costs.

 

Reading back on your post, you said you paid the ticket after the penalty was issued. Did you pay the penalty too? Im not too sure, but they may be bale to get you on strict liability. You didnt have a ticket at the time, so the penalty is just.

 

I was issued an Unpaid Fare Notice by the conductor, which stated that I was unable to pay for my ticket due to my card being declined.

He told me that all I had to do was pay off the price of the ticket within 14 days,

and that I should just visit a ticket office as soon as I can and pay this.

He said that the notice was a valid train ticket for my journey as long as I went to pay it off.

 

The penalty was recieved in the post a good month after I'd paid off the Unpaid Fare Notice.

I refused to pay a penalty for apparently 'refusing to pay off my Unpaid Fare Notice' on the grounds that I'd actually paid for my ticket

by handing over the notice and paying the price of the ticket on the day I received it.

 

The court summons, I believe is only for 'Did travel on a Railway without having previously paid the fare with intent to avoid payment',

and for the amount of £8.90, no mention of the £100 odd quid penalty they were trying to get from me to stop this going to court.

 

I paid the £8.90, which I'm being taken to court over,

but I'm scared somehow they're going to find a way to make it seem otherwise..

. and I'm going to end up in an even worse situation..

 

I need to make sure I have enough ground to prove I'm innocent (at least I honestly don't believe I've done anything wrong

and wouldn't even dream of travelling without paying for a ticket.)

[renegadeimp]

Do you have proof that you paid the ticket fare as stated by the conductor? Do you have proof the conductor said what he did?

[cythis]

The only sort of proof I have is the train tickets I received when I handed over the Unpaid Fare Notice to a member of staff at a ticket desk, for the journey and price that's stated on these summons. I also have a bank statement of the charge coming out of my account, as a sort of receipt. I don't have any proof of the words he said, as I just took it as it was at the time, and didn't think it'd end up as serious as it's become.

 

I'm thinking I should perhaps write to the ticket office and find out who was working at that time, and who I gave the notice to... and perhaps try get hold of cctv footage of me paying it off? When I think about that it sounds a little overkill.

 

Ps. I forgot to add, I've no idea what to do from here. Other than to turn up on the date of the summons;

[dx100uk]

i'm afraid you either understood wrongly or misunderstood what was said.

 

as far as we are aware

once issued the penalty fare notice cannot be cancelled by 'paying the fare'

 

 

 

dx

[renegadeimp]

i'm afraid you either understood wrongly or misunderstood what was said.

 

as far as we are aware

once issued the penalty fare notice cannot be cancelled by 'paying the fare'

 

 

 

dx

 

Thats what i was thinking, which is why i asked if the penalty had been paid. Theres usually strict liability for non production of a ticket. Doesnt matter if it is paid after. The penalty is for the fact you didnt have one at the time.

[Old-CodJA]

I don't think this is what the OP wants to hear, but I'm afraid it would be wrong to ignore what seems to have happened in this case.

 

From the OP's original post it would appear that no Penalty Fare Notice was issued for the following reasons:

 

1.) Northern Rail do NOT issue Penalty Fares Notices (PFN). There is no DfT authorised Penalty Fare scheme in place on Northern Rail.

 

2.) If a company does have a Penalty Fares scheme, the statutory time allowed for appeal or payment is 21 days, not 14 as suggested here

 

3.) The only payment that will be accepted by a booking office where a PFN is issued is the penalty charge amount.

 

It would seem from the OPs post that cythis was spoken to when travelling without a ticket and has been reported. The inspector may have given the traveller a note confirming that cythis had been reported and why.

 

If you then went to a booking office and insisted on paying the fare after being reported you would be given both halves of any return ticket that you asked and paid for, but this would not negate the offence because Section 5 of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889) states clearly '....having not previously paid his fare....'

 

The evidence of 'time paid' is printed on the ticket and correctly referred to by the company representative.

 

Having travelled without a valid ticket and not having the means with which to pay the fare on demand is likely to be charged as 'attempt to avoid a fare'. It is the travellers responsibility to ensure that they have either a valid ticket for their intended journey, or if facilities are not available to get one, must have acceptable means to pay the fare due on demand.

 

Having ignored two previous applications for payment will not have helped and copies of the relevant letters will be appended to any Court file.

[Grotesque]

Can I just point out a small fact that I think's got lost in translation by some of the above: the OP was issued an UNPAID Fare Notice not a PENALTY Fare Notice. On the assumption that that is actually the case (and as OC points out, NR issue no other types of unpaid notice, not having a PF scheme), then what has happened here- I am guessing!- is that one particular piece of information has either been processed twice, or not at all.

This is what has happened:

 

3. Unpaid fares notice

 

The payment of the outstanding fare (only) must be made within 21 days of your receipt of the notice. If you do not pay within 21 days there will be an administrative charge of £30.

 

• Failure to pay after this stage will result in the matter being referred for prosecution.
  

http://www.northernrail.org/travel/fines-and-penalties

 

Suggested course of action: the photocopying of the financial guff s/he mentioned above (re: proof of payment) and sending it to NR.

The only issue, of course, is whether it does prove payment!

 

'luck.

[Stigy]

I'm sorry, I'm confused here. There was a UFN issued, and paid for on the date, but was exchanged for a return ticket? UFNs can't be used like that, and certainly not for a return journey. My head hurts! What are we saying occurred here? If it was a UFN and it was paid for, that would be the end of the matter.

[Grotesque]

Exactly Stigy. The fact that the UFN by the sounds of it was exchanged for money suggests it was paid, as if the OP had only bought a return, s/he would be in possession of both, right now.

 

Hurting head? That'll be the Brandy butter then