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Legalcare or Aska Professional Ltd file court claim **Claim Dismissed + Wasted Costs Order**


Eversir
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Hi all,

 

Good result today - I receieved the following email from Daniels Silverman after sending them a letter:

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Re:- Our Client Aska Professional Limited t/a LegalCare

 

We refer to previous correspondence and write to advise that our client has instructed us to cease all action on your case.

 

Daniels Silverman are no longer dealing with this matter. Should you wish to discuss this matter further you will need to contact Aska Professional directly.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Warham Collections Team

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I've had to obscure certain details for privacy reasons, but here is the gist of it:

 

-----------------

 

Daniels Silverman Ltd.

210-212 Queens Dock Commercial Centre

Norfolk Street

Liverpool

L1 0BG

 

[Date omitted]

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Re: File Ref - [Reference number omitted]

 

Following on from my conversation with [name omitted] in the collections team at [time omitted] today, I am writing to you with FINAL NOTICE that unless ASKA Professional Ltd and/or any organisation working on their behalf ceases their demand for payment, I will be issuing a County Court Claim for damages related to harassment from your client.

 

As I have communicated countless times over the past year: I do NOT owe ANY sum to your client, Aska Professional Ltd. I have been continually hounded and harassed by your client and numerous Debt Collection Agencies since April 2013 for what is, essentially, a non-existent debt.

 

This is clearly an unreasonable amount of time. These repeated and prolonged attempts to facilitate payment of this non-existent debt are now having a significant impact upon my health and is beginning to adversely affect [reason omitted].

 

I demand that your client either takes me to court over the alleged debt within the next 28 days or ceases any further contact, whether directly or via anyone working on their behalf. Should this demand be ignored, I will have no other option but to seek damages against your client via the courts.

 

Yours Sincerely,

 

[Name omitted]

 

----------------------

 

Obviously my situation may not necessarily apply to your own circumstances, but if you've had ongoing issues for a significant length of time then this may assist with your own correspondence ! :)

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Hi Eversir,

 

I sincerely hope this is the result you wanted but the letter above is ambiguous. DS have not said the matter is closed, or that Legalcare have decided to drop all further action.

 

I would not reply to DS as clearly they are no longer instructed.

 

Let us know if you hear anything further from Legalcare or another collection agent.

 

But let's hope you don't .................

 

:-)

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Oh, so unfortunately I was right.

 

Have they sent you a document that looks like a court claim - if so, please post it up as a PDF after hiding personal data.

 

It may be that Legalcare have breached OFT Debt Collection Guidelines if they have sent you a document which could be construed as being a copy of a court claim, without actually filing a proper claim.

 

Thanks :-)

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**you can post up images/letters by this method immediately..you don't need 10 posts**

.

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

.

************************* ************************* *******

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

************************* ************************* ***********

.

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or http://www.freepdfconvert.com/

or

use www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though dont use full bank names or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice DD-mm-yyyy TSB

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

...

YOU DONT have to put a link to the attachment in the msg box..just upload it ..job done

.

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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well anyone can download those and fill them in

 

IF its actually been sent to the court

 

only ringing the court will confirm/deny.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Eversir,

 

As a court claim has now been issued, I have extracted your recent relevant posts from the larger thread and put them here in a new thread for you in the Legal Issues forum.

 

From the PDF in post #8 above, we already have full details of the PoC on the MCOL N1, and of the more detailed PoC sent to you subsequently by Paul Careless ta Aska Professional Ltd t/a Legalcare.

 

So we have the relevant info on this new thread, please confirm for us the nature of your dispute with Legalcare and, in particular, the manner in which you cancelled the agreement so you were not obliged to pay a year's monthly fees.

 

:-)

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Well, the whole thing in a nutshell:

 

1. I discovered the website on 13th March 2013 as I was looking for free legal advice on behalf of a relative struggling with a legal problem.

 

2. I read the various blurbs and information on the website's homepage. I was under the impression this was a legal firm that gave legal advice, and they gave a no-obligation free trial for this service.

 

3. I saw there was a link for terms and conditions at the bottom of the page. I clicked on the link and read the T&C's. All fairly straight forward - how they use my information, how old users have to be, their rights to withdraw the service etc etc.

 

4. I clicked on the "free trial" button and followed the steps. The message of "no obligation free trial" was again repeated. I entered in my personal details and my question.

 

5. Towards the end of the sign-up process, I was asked if I agreed to the terms and conditions and had to click a checkbox. As I had already read the terms and conditions earlier, I felt there was no problem doing this.

 

6. I was asked to setup a PayPal subscription as the payment method. There was no other payment method shown. From what I recall there was also a message stating that no payment would be taken at that point in time; they required these details for identity verification and if I wished to continue using the service after the trial finished.

 

7. I receieved a fairly useless and generic reply to my question. From what I recall, most of the information was similar if not identical to information available on the Citizen's Advice website.

 

8. I was not happy with the service; I fully expected a professional legal response specific to my question.

 

9. I cancelled my PayPal subscription the same day. I could not find any link to do so via the LegalCare website, but as the account was setup with a PayPal subscription and LegalCare advertised with "no obligation", I didn't think this would be an issue.

 

10. I sought the legal advice my relative needed from another channel, and put the whole thing out of my mind.

 

11. I received an email on the 8th April 2013 from LegalCare saying my recurring subscription had failed and asked me to make a payment. They stated that they would issue legal proceedings should I fail to pay within 7 days. Thinking this was an honest mistake on their part, I responded and asked that they check their records.

 

12. LegalCare replied, informing me that they didn't consider the cancelled PayPal subscription an official cancellation. I was told if I didn't make a payment immediately, I would lose my right to pay by installments and would instead have to pay the £228 "premium" upfront.

 

13. Numerous emails to and from LegalCare ensued until 26th April. In brief, I told them I had cancelled the same day as their service was not what I was looking for. I was confused why this was even an issue. LegalCare now demanded payment of £228 (the full 12 months) by 2nd May, threatening a £50 penalty and debt collection agencies should I not comply with this demand.

 

14. LegalCare persisted that I had not cancelled "the right way" and therefore had entered into a 12 month contract. I disputed this.

 

15. I was also sent an additional set of T&C's that at no point had I seen when signing up. I then discovered the link to this additional set of T&C's was hidden during the sign-up process; the hyperlink was black (as was the surrounding text) and at the time I did not realise this was a link that would take me to a second set of terms. There was also no indication in the text that additional terms even existed; I was just asked whether I agreed to the LegalCare terms and conditions (which during sign-up, I believed to be the terms and conditions in a link at the bottom of each web page).

 

16. Since highlighting these issues, the LegalCare website has undergone numerous changes which includes making these additional terms more prominent. In addition, there are now messages which clearly state you will be locked into a 12 month contract should you fail to cancel the free trial within 14 days. These messages were not shown during the period I signed-up. The additional terms have also changed considerably since March 2013.

Edited by Eversir
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call me dumb...

 

but how does having someone paypal details

verify ANYONE!!

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi Eversir,

 

I'm sure you were around when Danielle rec'd a court claim but you should check back through her thread and see how she fought her case - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?395012-Legalcare.co.uk-issue-Court-Claim-Help-Needed(3-Viewing)-nbsp

 

She agreed to settle by negotiation and was relieved to have the matter over.

 

What was the date the claim was issued. You need to acknowledge the claim and confirm your intent to (I assume) defend in full, by the due date. Allow time for heavy post and office closures.

 

You will then have a further period to file and Serve your Defence.

 

Your defence at this stage will be limited to responding only to what the POC's refer to.

 

The £50 "collection costs" they refer to could be construed as a penalty charge and not enforceable at law. "They exceed any genuine pre-estimate of the damage which would have been suffered by the Claimant in relation to the Defendant's transgressions"

 

:-)

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Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

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Thread moved to General Legal Issues

We could do with some help from you.

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If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

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Yes, I was aware of the claim Aska issued against Danielle. She signed up around the same time I did and experienced the same problems.

 

I understand why she agreed to settle at mediation (i.e. the time and hassle caused) however I'm going to stand by my principles on this one and see it through. I think it's throughly disgusting how they continue to justify their (in my opinion) unfair and frankly misleading business practices, to a customer base whom they know will be in a vulnerable position by the very nature of services they "claim" to be providing. Unfortunately for Aska, bullying & scare tactics have the opposite effect on me :mad2:

 

I'll get the AOS off this week with the intention to defend in full. I'll see if my university can provide any legal aid too, worth asking the question.

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Thanks Andyorch if I forgot to move the thread here.

 

Eversir, as Andyorch has posted here already, he's subscribed to the thread and will monitor developments.

 

When you need to submit your defence, we'll offer whatever help we can to assist you.

 

I'm glad to hear you're prepared to stand up to them and this will hopefully encourage others to do the same.

 

:-)

We could do with some help from you

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  • 2 weeks later...

Okay-dokey, I'm just starting to compile my Defence. My date of service is the 23rd December 2013, I filed my AOS and that was delivered to Northampton on the 31st December. I take it that leaves me until the 20th January '14 to file my Defence, however I will be unavailable w/c 13th so I'd rather get it all done and dusted by the 10th!

 

Now firstly, their particulars mention that the agreement was a written agreement. This so-called written agreement has not been provided with the claim form. Would it be possible to strike out the claim on that basis?

 

Secondly, they mention that:

 

"The terms were that, in the absence of a cancellation request during the free trial period, the Defendant subscribed to the services for a term of 12 months to be paid monthly in advance to the Claimant a fee of £19 throughout such term."

 

No mention of a specific cancellation step there. Also no copy of their T&C have been provided in the claim. Notice it also says it's a 12 month term to be paid monthly - would I be correct in arguing this agreement is technically a credit agreement? This would be as per this document: http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/business_leaflets/consumer_credit/oft140.pdf

 

Over to the appended POC. Paragraph (2):

 

"...the Claimant and the Defendant entered into an agreement in writing, namely the online presentation of the Claimant's terms and conditions for use of the Site and the Defendant's acceptance of the same by checking an acceptance field on the subscription page of the Site..."

 

This appears to refer to the T&C's that were at the bottom of the website, in which there is zero mention of a subscription, cancellation via a specific method etc.

 

Paragraph (3)(e):

 

"That in the event of a default on the part of the Defendant the Claimant should have the right to claim payment of its fees for the unexpired remainder of the said term."

 

My thoughts on this are, firstly, they prevent you from using the service if you default on a payment. Surely then the question of whether they can levy charges for a service you cannot use comes into play?

 

Secondly, in the case of OFT v Ashbourne there is mention that contracts lasting 12 months where there is no provision to terminate the contract due to certain circumstances are unfair as there is a significant imbalance in the parties rights, as per The Unfair Terms in a Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

 

Additionally, in the same case it was held that contracts that received accelerated payment of fees in the event of termination were unfair as there was no allowance for the fact the business benefited from such accelerated payment.

 

Would these be all valid points to put into my Defence? Obviously a little more formal :)

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Your timeline is as follows..

 

Issue date 18 December 2013 + 5 days for service = 23 December + 14 days to acknowledge = 6th January 2014 + 14 days to submit defence = 20 January 2014.

 

I do not know for sure if you have an extra 3 days on this timeline due to the bank holiday.

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I read, over the holiday period, that extra time IS given for bank hols.

 

:-)

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This so-called written agreement has not been provided with the claim form. Would it be possible to strike out the claim on that basis?
- No. The court will decide if and when a doc't is required.

 

No mention of a specific cancellation step there. Also no copy of their T&C have been provided in the claim. Notice it also says it's a 12 month term to be paid monthly - would I be correct in arguing this agreement is technically a credit agreement?
- No, it's not a credit agreement.

 

Re Paras 2 and 3 of the POC and your defence in general, your defence should simply address or respond to the points raised in the POC.

 

Go through pages 2, 3 and 4 of Danielle's case again where you will see the defence was really quite simple. No need for formal or legal language.

 

Put a draft defence here and we'll knock it into shape if needed.

 

Re the AMSL case, the significance of it is that the High Court judge said one could cancel an agreement in one of several ways. It's not about whether you could cancel in certain circumstances like illness or moving home - those apply more to gym agreements.

 

It's about the judge saying you could cancel an agreement in ways OTHER than those specified by the narrow terms in an agreement. Eg, one can cancel by phone, in person, by letter, email or by cancelling a DD mandate. In your case, you cancelled via PayPal and you'll suggest this was a clear act of cancelling, in the absence of other clear requirements on their website.

 

:-)

Edited by slick132

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Thanks Slick, this is what I've got up to now. I guess the time to go into more detail is when it comes to witness statements and the like.

 

----------------

 

1. [i don't actually know what to put in response to this point? It's just a statement of what they provide as a company.]

 

2. The Defendant visited the LegalCare website at www.legalcare.co.uk ('the Site') on 13th March 2013 after searching for “free legal advice” in an internet search engine. Upon visiting the Site homepage, the company advertised itself as providing “Justice for All” and offered protection and advice for a variety of legal issues.

 

Throughout the Site, it was mentioned that users would be able to “ask a solicitor a question for free” with claims that the Site was “the only place to get free legal advice online”. At the bottom of the Site, there was a link for “Terms and Conditions” which the Defendant clicked and viewed. There was no mention of any payment being necessary, nor details of any cancellation process within these terms and conditions.

 

During the sign-up process for a free trial, the Site displayed a prominent message that the trial was “100% free no obligation”. The Defendant was asked if they had read and agreed to the LegalCare terms and conditions. Taking this to mean the terms and conditions at the bottom of the website and with no description to the contrary, the Defendant completed the sign-up process. At the end of the process the Defendant was asked to provide his PayPal account details for proof of identity. The Defendant was told no payment would be taken should he not wish to continue after the trial period.

3. It is fully denied that the terms stipulated by the Claimant, other than (a), were ever agreed. No such terms were presented during the sign-up process and are completely at odds with the promises of “100% free no obligation” presented on the Site during the sign-up process.

 

Notwithstanding, the Defendant avers that any such contract term that stipulates a specific cancellation method is unfair, as highlighted in the case of The Office of Fair Trading v Ashbourne Management Services Ltd & others [2011] EWHC 1237. The ruling makes reference to acceptable means of cancellation of membership or subscription and precedents made in that case will be relied upon by the defendant.

 

4. Being wholly dissatisfied with the service that was offered during the free trial, the Defendant cancelled the PayPal subscription that he had been required to setup as sole means to access the services provided by the Site. The subscription was cancelled on 13th March 2013, a few hours after the Defendant completed the sign-up process on the Site and well within the 14 day period.

 

 

5. As the Defendant cancelled the free trial within the 14 day period, and terms with explicit payment arrangements/cancellation procedures were not presented to the Defendant by the Claimant, the Defendant maintains that no contract exists in the format the Claimant has put forward and hence, no payment is due to the Claimant.

 

6. As in paragraph (5), the Defendant maintains that there is no contractual obligation for payment to the Claimant by the Defendant. Furthermore the fee imposed is disproportionate under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

7. As above.

8. As no sum is owed to the Claimant, no interest is due.

9. As above.

 

 

 

Statement of Truth

 

I believe that the facts stated in this Defence are true to the best of my knowledge.

 

 

-----------------

 

 

Is there any scope for mentioning the fact there are a ton of complaints across forums such as this one, or would it be a waste of time?

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Hi Eversir,

 

I think this is too much and should be condensed, so as to address and respond to the POCs.

 

1. I accept that Legalcare provide an online advice service.

 

2. I accept that I ticked a field box as suggested but deny that Legalcare adequately displayed terms and conditions relating to cancellation of any agreement.

 

3. I deny that all the terms (a) to (f) were clearly visible on the Claimant's website.

 

4. I cancelled the agreement, contrary to the Claimant's assertion, on xxdate. I cancelled in the only manner I knew, namely cancellation of the payment mandate.

 

Obviously put things into your own words but my examples show how to keep it simple, and relevant to the Claimant's claimed points. You can either refer to yourself as "I" or as "The Defendant".

 

Post it back up when you've had another go .........

 

:-)

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Hi Slick,

 

Thank you for the advice. Should I be mentioning relevant case law at this stage? Or the fact many others have similar complaints of the company?

 

Revision 2:

 

1. I accept that LegalCare provide an online legal advice service.

 

2. I accept that I ticked a field box as suggested but deny that LegalCare adequately displayed terms and conditions relating to cancellation of any agreement.

3. I deny that terms (b) to (f) were clearly visible on the Claimant's website. Term (a) was only visible insofar as that a 14 day free, no obligation trial was mentioned during the sign-up process.

 

4. Being dissatisfied with the service I cancelled the agreement, contrary to the Claimant's assertion, on 13th March 2013. I cancelled in the only manner I knew, namely the cancellation of the payment mandate.

 

5. As I cancelled the free trial within the 14 day period on 13th March 2013, have not used the service since and terms (b) to (f) were not made clearly visible, I do not believe I owe money to the Claimant.

6. As in paragraph (5), there is no contractual obligation for payment to the Claimant. Furthermore the fees imposed are disproportionate under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

7. As above.

8. As no sum is owed to the Claimant, no interest is due.

9. As above.

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