End to premium rate helplines and changes to online shopping

[MaxxPower]

It's been announced that from June 2014, companies will no longer be allowed to use expensive 084 and 087 numbers when customers call them. Instead, consumers will only pay the same rate they would to call a standard landline number.

 

Other changes announced are also good news for consumers. The DSR are being 'upgraded' to allow 14 days instead of 7 for you to inspect and return goods. And to top it all off, online stores will no longer be allowed to pre-tick boxes for additional products such as insurance or 'add-on' goods.

 

On the flipside, there are changes to refunds under the DSR. Retailers now no longer have to provide a refund until they receive the goods back. The exception to this though is if the consumer provides proof of postage, at which point the retailer must process the refund regardless of them receiving the goods back or not.

A slightly 'dangerous' addition is also that retailers can deduct from a refund if they deem that a returned product has been used.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25355758

 

 

Overall, a good benefit to consumers, but there are some things to watch out for when returning goods under the DSRs

[jas88]

Some very welcome changes there - though I wish they'd take it one step further and simply end 084 and 087 numbers except for the original intended purposes (pay-as-you-go Internet and telephone services like the "Australia and Canada for 1p/min by dialling 0844..."). After a long time on the bank's 084 number trying to sort out an error on their part (they admitted it and provided three figure compensation, but the irritation of having the phone bill ticking up while explaining the problem to an Indian call centre didn't help) I'm disappointed to see this doesn't (yet) apply to financial companies, though: thumbs up to Barclays and RBS for apparently fixing this voluntarily, though.

[peigibeag]

Does this mean an end to hanging on while they play music and recorded messages at you, claiming to be busy, but all the while racking up their 'cut' from the number?

[jas88]

Does this mean an end to hanging on while they play music and recorded messages at you, claiming to be busy, but all the while racking up their 'cut' from the number?

 

Yes - at the very least, it'll mean they aren't making a penny while they keep you waiting, just tying up one of their phone lines. They'll still have queues of course, but now everyone waiting in the queue will be costing them a tiny bit of money (by tying up lines they pay for) rather than being a source of income, they will feel very differently about having long queues!

[SnaXXy]

Yes - at the very least, it'll mean they aren't making a penny while they keep you waiting, just tying up one of their phone lines. They'll still have queues of course, but now everyone waiting in the queue will be costing them a tiny bit of money (by tying up lines they pay for) rather than being a source of income, they will feel very differently about having long queues!

 

That's wrong. Companies who use 0845/0870 numbers do not earn anything from those numbers... revenue sharing on those numbers was stopped in April 2012. However, companies who use 0844/0871/090/etc still revenue share.

 

Due to Ofcom changes expected on all 0845 numbers which means 0845 will soon become chargeable to the company owning it when they receive calls; many companies are now looking at moving to a new number range. So instead of customers paying 3-4p per min, they'll probably pay 5-10p per min as they'll have to call 0844, etc. Customer loses.

[Surfer01]

I have no objection to paying the normal rate when phoning, but I object to paying Sky when I am changing a subscription as I have to use an 0844 number. The same applies when raising a complaint about a company. The annoying part is that if you email the company, it is seldom that they read the email properly.

[jas88]

That's wrong. Companies who use 0845/0870 numbers do not earn anything from those numbers... revenue sharing on those numbers was stopped in April 2012. However, companies who use 0844/0871/090/etc still revenue share.

 

Due to Ofcom changes expected on all 0845 numbers which means 0845 will soon become chargeable to the company owning it when they receive calls; many companies are now looking at moving to a new number range. So instead of customers paying 3-4p per min, they'll probably pay 5-10p per min as they'll have to call 0844, etc. Customer loses.

 

No, you're a step behind there. Many of the greedier companies already made the change you describe, when 0845 and 0870 were fixed as you mention: this is the next step, prohibiting all 084 and 087 numbers for this purpose. Companies will have to provide proper 01/02/03 numbers (or, presumably, 0800 if they wish): 0843, 0844 etc will no longer be permitted. Long overdue and very welcome, IMO. (Mobile networks also sometimes misuse 07 numbers for helpline purposes - as the terminating operator, of course, they keep all the termination fee, although technically this breaches current Ofcom regulations; I noticed today Three are using an 0843 number instead, perhaps because of that.)

 

Remember, 0845 was supposed to be cheaper than standard geographic calls when introduced as 0345 and 0645, not to impose a surcharge which would be passed to the called party! I know companies have enjoyed the extra backdoor revenue from charging people to call them, but it's high time that stopped - and the government now seems to agree there. Customer wins, greedy company loses.

[SnaXXy]

Ok, I can agree with some of that. However 084 and 087 numbers will NOT be prohibited Instead of being compared with the price of a local/national call it'll no longer work like that. Instead it'll act like any other 084, 087 or 09 number except the cost of calling the number will be made clearer, as it'll be split into two parts: an access charge by your phone provider and service charge payable to the company you're calling (therefore greedy company wins as they can now get a cut again). I have links to reference this on Ofcom's site but I can't post links as haven't made enough posts... pain in the bum!

 

If calling a company to make enquiries or complaints is such a big deal why do people not complain about the cost of a stamp when writing in to complain, etc? If they have to take something back to a store why do they not complain about extra petrol money or bus fares? They don't, so why should call charges be any different. You have to pay when calling to find a job (Jobcentreplus), get medical advice (NHS24), etc yet I don't hear many people grumbling about those, but they grumble about bank/credit card call centres, councils, companies, etc.

 

Maybe I'm just in the minority of people who think there are worse things in the world to worry about than a pound or three to companies most individuals don't phone often. *shrug* lol

[jas88]

I've already read the Ofcom material on changing the pricing - changes I recall proposing myself years ago, as it happens (to industry contacts, I don't think any Ofcom staff were present at the time) - to something akin to "normal price plus 5p/min" - but those are totally different changes to the ones this thread concerns. Yes, Ofcom are changing the pricing structure - but this thread is about new consumer protection rules prohibiting companies from using 084 and 087 numbers for this purpose in the first place, whatever Ofcom may do with pricing.

 

You seem to me to be missing the point about the difference between paying somebody for the privilege of talking to them and paying someone else for a service. If I take a taxi round to visit my GP, it might cost me £5. That's fine: I'm paying the taxi driver £5 to transport me there. Now imagine the GP charging me a £2 booking fee for making the appointment - or requiring all patients to get there by taxi, with the GP getting a cut of the taxi fares. Do you really think that would be accepted as readily, even though it's cheaper? I'd expect anyone suggesting it to be burned in effigy, if not in person!

 

NHS24 is on an 0845 number - which as you pointed out, is not a revenue share number and is charged at standard call rates by BT anyway, meaning BT residential customers don't have to pay anything for the call at all, let alone pay the NHS for calling it. Moreover, government policy is to "actively encourage public bodies to use 03 numbers" - and the NHS Direct 0845 4647 number terminates by February next year, to be replaced by 111 - which is free to call, even from mobiles. Plenty of people have indeed complained at length about GPs using revenue-share numbers - to the extent the NHS prohibited GPs from using them as of the 2010/11 contract renewal, and is now cracking down on the remaining c 8% of GPs still using those numbers in breach of their NHS contracts. (My latest credit card gives both 0800 and geographic numbers, and I'm pretty sure the previous one did too; I'd probably have second thoughts about remaining with a bank which didn't.)

[Ian011]

Companies who use 0845/0870 numbers do not earn anything from those numbers... revenue sharing on those numbers was stopped in April 2012. However, companies who use 0844/0871/090/etc still revenue share.

 

Due to Ofcom changes expected on all 0845 numbers which means 0845 will soon become chargeable to the company owning it when they receive calls; many companies are now looking at moving to a new number range. So instead of customers paying 3-4p per min, they'll probably pay 5-10p per min as they'll have to call 0844, etc. Customer loses.

Ofcom did not proceed with removing revenue sharing from 0845 numbers in 2009. Calls to 0845 numbers continue to incur a 2p/min Service Charge to the benefit of the called party. This fee is hidden within the call price. They use this revenue to cover the call handling and call routing costs incurred at their end of the call. This means they usually do not pay anything for the use of the number if calls are forwarded to a standard geographic number. They will usually incur fees if the call is routed to a mobile phone or to an international destination.

 

Very large users of 0845 numbers may receive a revenue share payment approaching half a penny per minute. Revenue sharing has not been stopped on 0845 numbers, nor will it.

 

BT controls most of the 0845 numbers used by businesses. BT gives callers using a BT line to make the call a discount in the form of making these calls inclusive within their call plans. 0845 calls are not inclusive from most other landlines and are almost never inclusive calls from mobiles.

 

Under Ofcom's "unbundled tariffs" system users of 0845 numbers will be required to declare the 2p/min Service Charge. BT will be free to continue giving 0845 as inclusive calls within their call plans, but it will be clear this is BT giving their own customers a discount, not the normal price of these calls.

 

Calls to 0870 numbers are inclusive in many landline call plans. Since 2009 there has been no Service Charge and revenue sharing has been banned. This has not brought down the cost of calling 0870 numbers from a mobile phone. Users of 0870 numbers currently have to pay the running costs for the non-geographic number and the call handling fees. In many cases these fees are similar to those that would be incurred if they had instead used an 03 number.

 

On 26 June 2015, revenue sharing returns to 0870 numbers and the Service Charge is likely to be around 10p/min. After this time, these calls will no longer be inclusive in call plans.

 

Calls to 0843 and 0844 numbers incur a Service Charge that varies from 1p to 7p/min depending on the number called. Calls to 0871, 0872 and 0873 numbers incur a Service Charge that varies from 1p to 13p/min depending on the number called. The first couple of pence per minute covers the call handling and call routing costs incurred by the call recipient and the remainder can be paid out as revenue share.

 

Under Ofcom's new "unbundled tariffs" system, all users of 084, 087 and 09 numbers will be required to declare the Service Charge wherever their number is advertised. It will be clear that the call recipient is financially benefitting from the call.

 

Before all that, another major change will occur. From 13 June 2014, new legislation bans 084, 087 and 09 numbers for use as customer service lines in many business sectors. The Cabinet Office has also published guidance effectively banning these numbers from government departments and public services. The Financial Conduct Authority is also expected to produce similar regulation for the financial sector. In order to comply, users must move to new 01, 02, 03 or 080 numbers. Users of 084 and 087 numbers can move to the matching 034 or 037 number.