Can I claim JSA - if i'm out of work and have 2 houses on rent?!?

[Purpleflowers 2]

I lost my job a few weeks ago and now have no source of income coming in...can i claim JSA if i have 2 houses on rent none of the tenants are claiming housing benefits.

 

The rent the tenants pay covers the mortgate and I have still have to pay something from my own savings.

 

Will the job centre accept my claim or will they refuse my claim?

 

Can they find out I have 2 houses on rent?

[antone]

They certainly could find out you have rental properties, and you would be ill-advised to try and hide this fact from them. That would be fraud.

 

Now, if you qualify for contribution-based JSA© then your rental properties and the income you receive would not be an issue, at least for the first 26 weeks of your claim. You would probably qualify for JSA© if you've been in full time work for an employer (that is, not self-employed) for tax years 2011/12 and 2010/11. Is this the case?

[Purpleflowers 2]

I have no other source of income coming in the rent just about covers the mortgage and i still have to pay from my pocket.

 

I have bills and direct debits to pay I have no other source of income coming in - can i claim for JSA and do I tell them I have the houses on rent and what will they do when I tell them - accept or ignore my claim or dig deeper?

[antone]

I have no other source of income coming in the rent just about covers the mortgage and i still have to pay from my pocket.

 

I have bills and direct debits to pay I have no other source of income coming in - can i claim for JSA and do I tell them I have the houses on rent and what will they do when I tell them - accept or ignore my claim or dig deeper?

 

You can claim JSA, and if you qualify for contribution based JSA©, the rental income from your properties will not affect any award you may be entitled to. Were you working full time for an employer in tax years 2010/11 and 2011/12?

 

If you don't qualify for JSA© the picture changes, so this is crucial information.

[Purpleflowers 2]

I have worked full time in the tax years 2010/11 and 2011/12 - who makes the decision if i get JSA© or JSA based on income?

 

What would happen if I did not qualify for JSA© then would they look at the rental properties?

 

 

You can claim JSA, and if you qualify for contribution based JSA©, the rental income from your properties will not affect any award you may be entitled to. Were you working full time for an employer in tax years 2010/11 and 2011/12?

 

If you don't qualify for JSA© the picture changes, so this is crucial information.

[antone]

The decision is automatic - if you're entitled to JSA© then you will receive it. It depends on the NI contributions you paid while you were working, and it's worked out by the computer system. You can be paid JSA© for up to 26 weeks, and while you're receiving it, the only income that's taken into account is that from employment or from an occupational pension. So in that case, your rental income would be ignored and you would be entitled to full benefit for a single person.

 

If you don't qualify for JSA©, or if you do qualify but it exhausts (that is, your claim lasts longer than 26 weeks) then you would be looking at means tested JSA(IB). Under those circumstances, income from your rental properties might be considered and deducted from any benefit you may be entitled to.

 

Provided you are upfront about your situation, you don't have anything to lose by making a claim.

[id6052]

If you don't qualify for JSA©, or if you do qualify but it exhausts (that is, your claim lasts longer than 26 weeks) then you would be looking at means tested JSA(IB). Under those circumstances, income from your rental properties might be considered and deducted from any benefit you may be entitled to.

 

Just to clarify, rental income is not usually treated as income for JSA(ib).

 

The DWP normally treat the properties as capital, if the capital value of the 2 properties exceed £16k, you would not be entitled to any JSA(ib). The value is determined by "90% of the open market value" less "any mortgages or secured debts". Any rental income received is also treated as capital.

 

However, if you are taken reasonable steps to dispose of properties, the value of the properties can normally be disregarded for up to 26 weeks from when you first took steps.

 

Your best hope would be to receive JSA© for 26 weeks.

If you have not found work by that stage, put properties up for sale and claim JSA(ib) for a further 26 weeks.

[Purpleflowers 2]

I would assume I would qualify for JSA© because I have been working until a few weeks ago when I lost my los job.

 

If I do not do qualify then I'm looking at means tested JSA(IB) - my properties are over £16k - but the rental income that comes in is paying the mortgage. So i don't think the job centre would class that as income would they?

 

When you say be up front when you apply - do i tell them i have 2 properties on rent should I go and see them to apply? or do i not tell them and just apply?

 

If i don't tell them what is the worst that can happen?

 

 

 

The decision is automatic - if you're entitled to JSA© then you will receive it. It depends on the NI contributions you paid while you were working, and it's worked out by the computer system. You can be paid JSA© for up to 26 weeks, and while you're receiving it, the only income that's taken into account is that from employment or from an occupational pension. So in that case, your rental income would be ignored and you would be entitled to full benefit for a single person.

 

If you don't qualify for JSA©, or if you do qualify but it exhausts (that is, your claim lasts longer than 26 weeks) then you would be looking at means tested JSA(IB). Under those circumstances, income from your rental properties might be considered and deducted from any benefit you may be entitled to.

 

Provided you are upfront about your situation, you don't have anything to lose by making a claim.

[Purpleflowers 2]

To clarify is the rental income not usually treated as income for JSA(ib) in all cases...but say if it was treated as income then what would happen?

 

So the longest I can claim for is basically 26weeks for either JSA© or JSA(IB) - can they find out about the properties if i don't tell them?

 

 

Just to clarify, rental income is not usually treated as income for JSA(ib).

 

The DWP normally treat the properties as capital, if the capital value of the 2 properties exceed £16k, you would not be entitled to any JSA(ib). The value is determined by "90% of the open market value" less "any mortgages or secured debts". Any rental income received is also treated as capital.

 

However, if you are taken reasonable steps to dispose of properties, the value of the properties can normally be disregarded for up to 26 weeks from when you first took steps.

 

Your best hope would be to receive JSA© for 26 weeks.

If you have not found work by that stage, put properties up for sale and claim JSA(ib) for a further 26 weeks.

[gioppino]

I lost my job a few weeks ago and now have no source of income coming in...can i claim JSA if i have 2 houses on rent none of the tenants are claiming housing benefits.

 

The rent the tenants pay covers the mortgate and I have still have to pay something from my own savings.

 

Will the job centre accept my claim or will they refuse my claim?

 

Can they find out I have 2 houses on rent?

Try the online benefit calculator, I am not allowed to post link but put this into Google: "DWP benefit adviser" or maybe some good soul can do this for me.

[Nystagmite]

Try the online benefit calculator, I am not allowed to post link but put this into Google: "DWP benefit adviser" or maybe some good soul can do this for me.

 

https://www.dwpe-services.direct.gov.uk/portal/page/portal/ba/lp is what I think you mean?

[antone]

Just to clarify, rental income is not usually treated as income for JSA(ib).

 

The DWP normally treat the properties as capital, if the capital value of the 2 properties exceed £16k, you would not be entitled to any JSA(ib). The value is determined by "90% of the open market value" less "any mortgages or secured debts". Any rental income received is also treated as capital.

 

However, if you are taken reasonable steps to dispose of properties, the value of the properties can normally be disregarded for up to 26 weeks from when you first took steps.

 

Your best hope would be to receive JSA© for 26 weeks.

If you have not found work by that stage, put properties up for sale and claim JSA(ib) for a further 26 weeks.

 

Thanks for the clarification - makes sense now.

[antone]

To clarify is the rental income not usually treated as income for JSA(ib) in all cases...but say if it was treated as income then what would happen?

 

So the longest I can claim for is basically 26weeks for either JSA© or JSA(IB) - can they find out about the properties if i don't tell them?

 

Well, what id6052 is saying is that the rental income would not be treated as income, but as capital.

 

As I read his post, you would need to start like this:

 

• Take the total market value of your two properties - let's say (for example) that they are worth £100,000 combined
  
• The relevant figure is 90% of that market value, hence £90,000
  
• Now subtract the amount of any outstanding mortgage - let's say you have £80,000 left to pay
  
• Your capital is therefore £90,000-£80,000 = £10,000
  
• And then add, each month, the amount of rental income you receive to that £10,000 figure
  

Capital does not affect a JSA© claim. For an income based claim, your entitlement would be reduced by £1 per week for each £250 in capital over £6000. You would not be entitled to JSA(IB) if you have more than £16,000 in capital, but note id's comments above about property you are attempting to sell.

 

 

It would be a very bad idea to attempt to hide the fact that you own these properties. They could find out, and this could be seen as fraud. Not worth the risk - folks can go to jail for benefit fraud.

[Purpleflowers 2]

i think i understand it better with the excellent advice on here...so basically be open with them if they ask if i own any properties and whats the worst that could happen if i tell them - they can't refuse my claim can they - i have no income coming in and just been using up my savings but now i have no resort but to claim JSA to help me until I find a job.

 

Do I tell them on the form re: properties or if they ask?

 

To qualify for contribution based JSA© you just have to have been working and paid a certain amount of tax is that correct?

 

If I don't qualify for based JSA© then it will be JSA(IB) for this do i need to tell them I have properties and how much savings etc?

 

i've not signed on for over over 15 years so have no idea if things have changed which is why i'm asking on the forum for advice

[Purpleflowers 2]

It ask on the website "In total, do you have savings of more than £16000? Savings include money, shares, investments and property that you or your partner own in the UK or abroad. Please note: savings do not include the property where you live."

 

Does this mean the properties are not considered part of the savings? but they are only asking if you have more than £16000 in the bank as savings. I have just just over £16000 - how will this effect the claim?

[Nystagmite]

Do I tell them on the form re: properties or if they ask?

 

To qualify for contribution based JSA© you just have to have been working and paid a certain amount of tax is that correct?

 

If I don't qualify for based JSA© then it will be JSA(IB) for this do i need to tell them I have properties and how much savings etc?

 

i've not signed on for over over 15 years so have no idea if things have changed which is why i'm asking on the forum for advice

 

JSA© is based on the national insurance contributions you've made. It's a bit more complex than that. (I'll leave it to someone else to explain - I don't quite understand the rules)

 

If / when you apply for JSA, (ib) you're asked if you have any savings or properties over £16k.

[antone]

i think i understand it better with the excellent advice on here...so basically be open with them if they ask if i own any properties and whats the worst that could happen if i tell them - they can't refuse my claim can they - i have no income coming in and just been using up my savings but now i have no resort but to claim JSA to help me until I find a job.

 

Do I tell them on the form re: properties or if they ask?

 

To qualify for contribution based JSA© you just have to have been working and paid a certain amount of tax is that correct?

 

If I don't qualify for based JSA© then it will be JSA(IB) for this do i need to tell them I have properties and how much savings etc?

 

i've not signed on for over over 15 years so have no idea if things have changed which is why i'm asking on the forum for advice

 

With regard to the properties, tell them - don't wait to be asked. By doing so, you protect yourself from any suggestion that you tried to deceive them in any way. As I recall, there is a part of the form that specifically asks about this, but even if I'm not remembering correctly, there is a section that says (pretty much) "Is there anything else you'd like to tell us?" and you should mention them there if you haven't done so already. This will be the same whether you claim online, by phone or using a paper form.

[antone]

It ask on the website "In total, do you have savings of more than £16000? Savings include money, shares, investments and property that you or your partner own in the UK or abroad. Please note: savings do not include the property where you live."

 

Does this mean the properties are not considered part of the savings? but they are only asking if you have more than £16000 in the bank as savings. I have just just over £16000 - how will this effect the claim?

 

Properties and cash savings are both classed as capital. Capital over £6000 will affect an income based claim, but will be ignored for a contribution based claim. To qualify for contribution based JSA, you need to satisfy two conditions:

 

Firstly, what is the Benefit Year in which you are making the claim. This is BY 2013 - BY 2014 starts on the first Sunday in January 2014. From there, we work out the Relevant Income Tax Years (RITYs), which are the last two completed tax years prior to the BY. So for a claim made tomorrow (for example) the RITYs would be 2010/11 and 2011/12. For a claim made on or after 5th January 2014, they will be 2011/12 and 2012/13.

 

Now, First Contribution Condition (FCC). In either of the two RITYs, you must have actually paid NI contributions on an income that is at least 25 times the Lower Earnings Limit (LEL) for NI. The LEL is around £105 per week or so, so to satisfy the FCC you must have earned about £2600 in one or other of the RITYs.

 

Second Contribution Condition (SCC). In both of the RITYs, you must have paid or been credited with NI on an income that is 50 times the LEL. Credited contributions from JSA do not count towards the SCC.

 

Both conditions must be satisfied for a claimant to qualify for JSA©.

 

This seems confusing, so to simplify, most people who have worked full time for an employer for RITYs 2010/11 and 2011/12 would satisfy these conditions for a claim made before the end of this tax year.

[Purpleflowers 2]

I have worked full time during 2010/11 and 2011/12 and 2013 do I then qualify for JSA© - am i correct in saying you must have earned more than £2600 in either of the tax years in order to qualify for JSA© ?

 

If I were to put a claim in before this tax year then what is the latest date that I can do it online on the directgov site?

 

Properties and cash savings are both classed as capital. Capital over £6000 will affect an income based claim, but will be ignored for a contribution based claim. To qualify for contribution based JSA, you need to satisfy two conditions:

 

Firstly, what is the Benefit Year in which you are making the claim. This is BY 2013 - BY 2014 starts on the first Sunday in January 2014. From there, we work out the Relevant Income Tax Years (RITYs), which are the last two completed tax years prior to the BY. So for a claim made tomorrow (for example) the RITYs would be 2010/11 and 2011/12. For a claim made on or after 5th January 2014, they will be 2011/12 and 2012/13.

 

Now, First Contribution Condition (FCC). In either of the two RITYs, you must have actually paid NI contributions on an income that is at least 25 times the Lower Earnings Limit (LEL) for NI. The LEL is around £105 per week or so, so to satisfy the FCC you must have earned about £2600 in one or other of the RITYs.

 

Second Contribution Condition (SCC). In both of the RITYs, you must have paid or been credited with NI on an income that is 50 times the LEL. Credited contributions from JSA do not count towards the SCC.

 

Both conditions must be satisfied for a claimant to qualify for JSA©.

 

This seems confusing, so to simplify, most people who have worked full time for an employer for RITYs 2010/11 and 2011/12 would satisfy these conditions for a claim made before the end of this tax year.

[antone]

I have worked full time during 2010/11 and 2011/12 and 2013 do I then qualify for JSA© - am i correct in saying you must have earned more than £2600 in either of the tax years in order to qualify for JSA© ?

 

If I were to put a claim in before this tax year then what is the latest date that I can do it online on the directgov site?

 

I can't tell you for sure if you qualify for JSA©, but it sounds like you probably would. The next Benefit Year starts on 05/01/2014 so you should claim on or before the 4th Jan. There's no reason to delay, though, so I'd do it as soon as possible.

[45002]

I would assume I would qualify for JSA© because I have been working until a few weeks ago when I lost my los job.

 

If I do not do qualify then I'm looking at means tested JSA(IB) - my properties are over £16k - but the rental income that comes in is paying the mortgage. So i don't think the job centre would class that as income would they?

 

When you say be up front when you apply - do i tell them i have 2 properties on rent should I go and see them to apply? or do i not tell them and just apply?

 

If i don't tell them what is the worst that can happen?

i think i understand it better with the excellent advice on here...so basically be open with them if they ask if i own any properties and whats the worst that could happen if i tell them - they can't refuse my claim can they - i have no income coming in and just been using up my savings but now i have no resort but to claim JSA to help me until I find a job.

 

Do I tell them on the form re: properties or if they ask?

 

To qualify for contribution based JSA© you just have to have been working and paid a certain amount of tax is that correct?

 

If I don't qualify for based JSA© then it will be JSA(IB) for this do i need to tell them I have properties and how much savings etc?

 

i've not signed on for over over 15 years so have no idea if things have changed which is why i'm asking on the forum for advice

You have to declare anything by law DWP ask you for on any form,they can refuse to pay benefit if you don't !

[Purpleflowers 2]

I have been signing on a few weeks...last week I had my normal sign so I ended up waiting 40 mins past my appointment time one of the advisors had my book and I could see her at her desk she then called over 2 other advisors and they were all looking at the monitor screen...a few mins later she came over to me and told me my cycle had now changed from 'cycle p' to 'cycle r' and i should come in next week instead...being me i never asked why.

 

what is cycle p and what is cycle r?

[antone]

The cycles simply determine which of the two weeks you are due to sign on. Back in the day (like, the 1970s) everyone had to sign weekly, but there were too many people for the Jobcentres to handle. So they switched to fortnightly signing, and assigned everyone to a "cycle", either P or R. Week one was P, week two was R, and then the cycles repeat.

 

Usually, it's based on the last two digits of your NI number. If they're even, you'll be assigned to cycle P, if odd, it will be cycle R. This shouldn't have any real effect on your claim, but you might find your next payments will be for strange amounts. It will even out over a couple of weeks and you will not lose money overall.