Self Assesment behind and not straight forward

[Eshezo]

Dear all,

 

I'm behind with my self assessment's (stupid I know) by 7 years !!, as you can imagine I have bills from HMRC of around the £8k mark for not doing them.

 

I accept that I haven't completed them and eventually have come round to some sensible thinking of getting it all straight,

the last few years haven't been easy having been made redundant, closing a company and having a new daughter

who was in intensive care for 3 months after being born

but I appreciate all the personal stuff needs to go aside and HMRC probably wouldn't care anyway.

 

So my situation:-

 

1/ I need to complete my self assessment's, which I'm in the process of doing

2/ I can only complete 4 of them because I need payslips, P60's from my old companies which I've requested but need to wait for them to arrive.

3/ I have a letter from "Rossingdales" regarding the debt (first letter today but dated 5th Dec)

4/ I have some complex tax issues in 2 of the years where I was not working due to living from my investment in a company from the sale of my house.

(my equity was as a loan to the company and I received loan payments back that I lived on).

5/ One company I worked for over 4 years had me on a tax code of BR for the period despite being sent coding notices from HMRC,

is it the employers liability if they there were sent coding notices?,

although HMRC haven't given me copies and maybe they didn't;t send them in

which case is HMRC liable given that they have plenty of information from my employer over a long period using a BR code

 

I wanted to get some breathing space with HMRC to do the above,

not much, say 1 week for the first 4 assessment's and an additional month for the others because I need copies of P60's etc...

 

I called HMRC and the good "love them" call centre told me they couldn't do anything and regarding rossingdales (debt collection)

it was an automated process and not possible to change it.

 

They did offer to put me through to the "technical department" in relation to clarifying what I needed to fill in on my assessment

where I had a query but after 20 minutes told me they couldn't get me through and could I call again tomorrow (and wait another 45 minutes !).

 

I re called them and asked for an appointment at my local tax office and they took my number

and said it would take up to 5 days for me to have a call back to arrange an appointment,

so depending on how long the appointment is after it could be a few weeks (hope not).

 

So in summary I have a self assessment issue (self caused) that I want to sort out, fines and rossingdale on my case.

 

Genuinely I know it's my fault for not sending in my self assessments but now being committed to resolve the situation

I'm looking for advice on stopping Rossingdales while I resolve it with HMRC and just getting things straight.

 

Actually HMRC told me to call Rossingdales and explain so they would stop !!

(to be clear Rossingdales have only sent one letter, nothing more and there is no distraint order or anything)

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

 

rgds

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I'll alert the site team to your problems and will also send an SOS to someone who deals with tax, if they're around at the moment.

 

Have you seen an accountant at all? Even if you can't afford to pay one, it could be worth and initial half hour interview, which would normally be free, to see if they can give you any pointers. Sometimes a phone call from an accountant who is acting can slow things up a bit with HMRC.

 

My best, HB

[dx100uk]

well you can TOTALLY ignore the rossers

 

they are a DCA they have no BAILIFF powers in this instance

they can do NOTHING to you at aLL>

 

they do not own the debt.

 

dx

[slick132]

Hi Eshezo,

 

I would not ignore Rossendales. Write to them saying the tax which they seek to collect is based on estimates, you are appealing HMRC's estimates and supplying actual figures, after which HMRC should issue corrected figures if any tax is payable.

 

The way forward re submission of the outstanding tax returns is to deal with the easiest or simpler ones first.

 

If there is one or more that you can complete in full, pencil in all the figures in it, or them (assuming you have paper returns to complete) and put that to one side.

 

You can then focus on the more difficult returns.

 

When you were taxed under the BR code, in that tax year did you have any other earnings from employment or self-employment.

 

I suggest you do NOT visit HMRC yourself to bring matters up to date. You could end up being the proverbial Lamb to the Slaughter, being hit with penalties and interest without mercy.

 

You will benefit from using an accountant or tax advisor and you should ask around for recommendations from family or friends, unless you already have one in mind whom you trust.

 

Using an experienced professional to present your and the o/s returns to HMRC could save you a lot, in tax, penalties and interest.

 

For the tax years you are missing forms P60, did you have other sources of income from :-

 

Employment; Self employment; Directorships; Investment income

 

If not, you may not need the actual form P60. In any event, HMRC will have the pay and tax data if you supply details of the employer.

 

Are you able to pay for an Acct't to help you sort all this.

 

If funds are limited, you can do as much of the groundwork as possible to prepare the relevant figures for each year, so the Acct't has less to do.

 

Edited February 10, 2014 by slick132
typo

[honeybee13]

Thank you for looking in, Slick.

 

Eshezo, I hope that gives you an idea of how to proceed? Please ask any other questions you have.

 

HB

[BazzaS]

 

The way forward re submission of the outstanding tax returns is to deal with the easiest or simpler ones first.

 

 

I agree with slick, with one caveat.

 

The "sum owed" may be based on HMRC's "determinations", so may well reduce when they have correct figures.

However, after some time the "determination " becomes "fact", and if you are headed towards that deadline, it may be worth getting that return in first to prevent an 'inflated' determination becoming fixed and not correctable by a later return.

[slick132]

Good point Bazza - the tax due at the moment is definitely estimated, probably based on a combination of penalty charges and tax due on estimated income.

 

The estimated figures will be challenged or appealed when the proper figures are available.

 

If the earlier returns can be finished except for the missing P60's, you should certainly consider submitting them without waiting for the Pay and Tax data from employers.

 

[Eshezo]

Thanks for the replies, so an update....

 

 

I completed the outstanding Self assessments and sent them in , some years they owed me and other I owed them, it balanced out with them owing me £300 overall.

 

 

In between they stopped chasing me for outstanding fines and estimates but now they have received the assessments they are once again chasing me , I received a letter from Rossingdales today.

 

 

I know it's my fault but if there were no fnes or I could get the fines removed I wouldn't;t owe them anything, that's what's annoying because I pay my tax through PAYE then still have to do a self assessment Arggg.

 

 

So now I'm stuck in a position of being up to date with all the self assessments but owing them money for the previous fines which I can't pay and if they adjust my tax code I will also have a financial problem.

 

 

My understanding is that they are not exactly flexible when it comes to working out a payment with them, has anyone had any experience of negotiating a payment plan with them, I owe just under £4k.

 

 

rgds Esh

[slick132]

Hi Esh and thanks for the update.

 

Did you deal with the submission of forms to HMRC yourself, or did you use an Acct't.

 

Can you give us an approx break-down of what is owed for each year showing separate sums for tax, interest and penalties.

 

We need to know how a net refund for the years of £300 turns into demands for £4K.

 

[Eshezo]

Hi Esh and thanks for the update.

 

Did you deal with the submission of forms to HMRC yourself, or did you use an Acct't.

 

Can you give us an approx break-down of what is owed for each year showing separate sums for tax, interest and penalties.

 

We need to know how a net refund for the years of £300 turns into demands for £4K.

 

 

Thanks, I did submit the self assessment's myself. The outstanding amounts are £1600 for yr end 2012 and £1600 for yr end 2011, these are made up of late penalties and interest, broken down as follows:-

2012 - Interest £21 Penalties £1600, 2011 interest £64.42 and penalties £1600.

 

Interestingly there were a couple of older fines going back to 2002 !, HMRC have used the £300 they owe me against them , ie they have allocated the amount owed into 2002 to wipe out the 2002 fines.

 

 

I don't think there is any chance of getting the penalties removed (would love it if there were) but I really need to pay this over a period of say 2 years , from what I read I'm not sure HNRC will entertain that though.

 

 

Hope that helps, if not let me know and I'll send you whatever detail you need.

 

 

rgds Esh

[rebel11]

Hi eshezo

 

A bit further down the line. Have you been mis-sold PPI on any financial products which you can reclaim? Have you had Credit Charges applied to your accounts which you can reclaim?

[Eshezo]

Hi eshezo

 

A bit further down the line. Have you been mis-sold PPI on any financial products which you can reclaim? Have you had Credit Charges applied to your accounts which you can reclaim?

 

 

 

Interesting you say that, I'm not sure, I have a car loan which finishes in 2 months time and it's possible there is PPI on it but I don't have the agreement copy. I was going to request it from Lloyds and take a look. Don't think it would help me in the short term though because even if there is it takes a while to get it. On the Lloyds website http://www.blackhorse.co.uk/Motor/ComplaintsFAQ.html there is a phone number that can be used to check if there was PPI on a policy, I'll call it later today and check (have have the agreement number).

[slick132]

Hi Esh,

 

Can you confirm approx what tax is owed for y/e 5/4/11 and 5/4/12. I ask because the penalties and interest will be relative to the tax due.

 

Considering the amounts involved, I would suggest you contact a local accountant and ask for a free initial consultation, which many practices will offer. Even a 30 minute session should be enough for you to get opinion on whether the Acct't thinks there is any chance of negotiating about the level of penalties.

 

If the Acct't thinks you have little or no chance of negotiating downwards, at least you've tried. But if there IS a decent chance of lowering the amounts, it may be worth paying the Acct't to do this for you. You need an idea of what the Acct't would charge of course as you don't want to throw good money after bad.

 

[Eshezo]

OK , Here it is in detail by year

 

 

Tax Year ending Apr 2012 £1778.52 , Penalties £1600, interest £21,72 , Tax £156.50

Tax Year ending Apr 2011 £1664.42 , Penalties £1600, interest £64.42, Tax £0

 

 

Overpayments:

 

 

Tax Year Apr 2013 of £195.50 which has been allocated against old penalties from 2003

Tax Year Apr 2010 of £931.00 which has been allocated against old penalties from 2002/3

 

 

apologies if the figures look a little different to the previous ones quoted but first I rounded some previously and it seems that there have been adjustments made online since I logedin to HMRC last.

 

 

rgds Esh

[rebel11]

Hi eshezo

 

You can send them a SAR request they will send you all the data they hold on the account, at least for the last 6 years, claim back if it was mis-sold to you. It's amazing that if your name was Amazon, Starbucks etc, they would give you as much time as you like, they would negotiate how much you should pay, allegedly.

 

Interesting you say that, I'm not sure, I have a car loan which finishes in 2 months time and it's possible there is PPI on it but I don't have the agreement copy. I was going to request it from Lloyds and take a look. Don't think it would help me in the short term though because even if there is it takes a while to get it. On the Lloyds website http://www.blackhorse.co.uk/Motor/ComplaintsFAQ.html there is a phone number that can be used to check if there was PPI on a policy, I'll call it later today and check (have have the agreement number).

[Eshezo]

In addition, the postman just arrived and I received a coding notice, changing my code to 1803L, no I haven't miss read it they have increased my tax free allowance to £18,033 per year, muppets on the one hand they are demanding the fines outlined above and on the other hand they increase my tax free allowance.

 

 

rgds Esh

[rebel11]

Hi eshezo

 

HMRC also have a (DMB) debt management & banking department, they may allow you to pay in installment, but they will need information. They might give you as long as 12 months. Google DMB HMRC.

[Eshezo]

Hi eshezo

 

HMRC also have a (DMB) debt management & banking department, they may allow you to pay in installment, but they will need information.

 

 

Thanks, do you have any contact information for them ?

[rebel11]

Half way down the page (Before you ring them, make sure you have all the financial info they will require, or call them to make a general enquiry):-

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/sammanual/sam80071.htm

 

Thanks, do you have any contact information for them ?

[slick132]

Hi Esh,

 

I can now see why the penalties are at the level they are - they approximately reflect the tax that was unpaid for those years.

 

As Rebel says, Google search for the HMRC dep't and put proposals in writing asap for how you intent to clear the debt.

 

Do not discuss the matter with anyone by phone as you need it in writing only. Tell the DCA you are negotiating a payment plan with HMRC and ask them to hold collection for 30 days pending the outcome.

 

[Eshezo]

Hi Esh,

 

I can now see why the penalties are at the level they are - they approximately reflect the tax that was unpaid for those years.

 

As Rebel says, Google search for the HMRC dep't and put proposals in writing asap for how you intent to clear the debt.

 

Do not discuss the matter with anyone by phone as you need it in writing only. Tell the DCA you are negotiating a payment plan with HMRC and ask them to hold collection for 30 days pending the outcome.

 

 

 

Sorry I don't see how they reflect the tax unpaid, they are late penalties for not filing the SA, there was no tax unpaid, in fact it was overpaid

 

 

rgds

[rebel11]

As Slick say best keep a paper trail, government departments are renowned for saying one thing then forgetting what they have said.

[slick132]

Sorry Esh, my mistake entirely.

 

I now see the amounts of tax for those 2 years was minimal, and zero, respectively.

 

So I stand by what I said earlier - make an free initial appointment with an Acct't to discuss the levels of penalties imposed.