Fixed penalty notice and 3 points for driving without a rear bumper

[Lulu87]

Morning all, I

was hoping for some advice please as this is a completely new situation for me.

 

On saturday night i was driving on the a13 and heard a loud bump

,i didnt know what it was but nothing seemed amiss so i continued on to a friends party.

 

Later that night someone pointed out to me that my rear bumper had fallen off and wondered if someone hit me.

I then realised what the loud bump but my friend who does know a bit about cars assured me that in the meantime i could continue driving

as my plate number was still clearly visible and lights etc working fine.

I did manage to drive back home with no issues.

 

However this morning, my brother had a hospital appointment and i had no choice but to go and pick him up so he could make this appointment.

I was pulled over on the a13 by a bike policeman who proceeded to issue me a fixed penalty notice for £100 and 3 points on my license for "dangerous condition"

despite me explaining all the above and i honestly thought i wasn't comitting any offense.

 

He said there were jagged pieces sticking out which there really wasnt,

at least nothing that could cause serious damge to anything or anyone,,

i even took pictures to show this.

 

I am terribly upset as i have been such a careful driver since getting my license and to get 3 points for this!

I am now considering appealing ,

do i stand any chance of suceeding?

Thanks to everyone in advance.

[renegadeimp]

What you have to realise is that the police have heard every excuse going. If there were any rough edges on the vehicle, or parts that could cause harm ( there would be because you didnt have a rea bumper), then if you reversed into something, or someone hit you, then you could be causing much more damage to the other party than if there as a bumper.

[Lulu87]

Thanks for responding renegadeimp. Of course i understand that he probably didnt believe me. Going forward i could produce the hospital appointment letter at court so that could at least prove some of my story. I have been given the ticket now and although i am upset about it, there is nothing i can do at the moment. I was just wondering if i have much grounds at a court appeal because i feel the punishment is exceptionally high.

[renegadeimp]

The sad thing is, even though you seem to have a valid excuse, that wont wash witht he police. You were caught with your vehicle in a seemingly dangerous condition.

[Lulu87]

Appreciate your answer but as i am now contemplating going to magistrate court to appeal it,i dont believe its a matter of convincing the police anymore....more like convincing the judge

[edjama]

3 Points Isn't The End Of The World. Losing I'm Court Would Carry A Heavier financial penalty So You'd Have To Be Confident Of Winning.

If You Clipped Someone In Reverse imagine The injury A bumper Bracket Could Cause!

Maybe You Could Upload The Pictures You Took To Show The Condition Of The Rear Of Your Vehicle

[renegadeimp]

You wont convince a judge as you were driving the car in a dangerous condition. Plus you dont really have any mitigating factors. Sure, if it was an emergency dash to the hospital then they could look in your favour, but it wasnt. You were taking your brother to a pre-arranged non emergency appointment.

 

You may get a sympathetic judge, but i doubt it.

[green_and_mean]

Dangerous condition is not defined in the legislation and is subjective, your vehicle was defective but that is not the charge. You could gamble on going to magistrates court and arguing that the vehicle was not a danger. The test in Court is "is it likely that injury may occur? Likely is deemed to be something more than a bare possibility but less than a probability."

 

Using vehicle in dangerous condition etc.

A person is guilty of an offence if he uses, or causes or permits another to use, a motor vehicle or trailer on a road when—

 

(a)the condition of the motor vehicle or trailer, or of its accessories or equipment, or

 

(b)the purpose for which it is used, or

 

©the number of passengers carried by it, or the manner in which they are carried, or

 

(d)the weight, position or distribution of its load, or the manner in which it is secured,

 

is such that the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person

 

 

Note that it is danger to a person and not a vehicle, would a missing rear bumper be likely to injure anyone? It would cause more damage to a vehicle in an accident but would the passengers be in danger?

[Jamberson]

I don't think you have to have a rear bumper by law. It's a question of whether the condition of the vehicle without it poses a danger.

 

In the main, rear bumpers are there to protect your car, rather than to protect others, and you are pretty unlikely to hit anyone with the back end of the car. Unless there is clearly sharp metal protruding, I would say you have a case to argue.

[ashmk]

The bumper may have fallen off but the fixings were likely to still be sticking out.

 

Take the points, pay the fine.

 

You could have and should have took a taxi.

 

Lesson learned.

 

 

 

And Edjama, please stop writing all your posts like a child, capitalising every word. Nobody will take you seriously until you learn to write.

[renegadeimp]

Ash, some phones automatically capitalise the words, as do some laptops. Theres no need to attack the poster like that. You can still understand what they are saying.

[green_and_mean]

The bumper may have fallen off but the fixings were likely to still be sticking out.

 

Take the points, pay the fine.

 

You could have and should have took a taxi.

 

Lesson learned.

 

 

 

And Edjama, please stop writing all your posts like a child, capitalising every word. Nobody will take you seriously until you learn to write.

 

Its amazing that you can tell a car was likely to cause someone an injury without even seeing it!!

[ashmk]

It's a gift and a curse!

[Lulu87]

Oh wow ,i've just logged back in and i'm amazed to have gotten so many responses, thank you all so much. I think attaching a picture would help make my case stronger/weaker, now i just need to figure out how to lol, i'll be right back

[green_and_mean]

Oh wow ,i've just logged back in and i'm amazed to have gotten so many responses, thank you all so much. I think attaching a picture would help make my case stronger/weaker, now i just need to figure out how to lol, i'll be right back

 

 

you can host it on tinypic and then post the link.

[Lulu87]

Thank you Green_and_mean, that's saved me hours of trying to figure it out....I've uploaded a picture to tinypic but the site is not allowing me to post links till my post count is 10....

[Michael Browne]

Post the URL without http: bit

[Lulu87]

Thank you for your response Edjama, i've uploaded a picture to tiny pic and have posted a link below

[Lulu87]

Giving it anther go now Michael Browne, sorry everyone for the great red blob, i couldn't figure out another way to hide away my plate number..

 

tinypic.com/view.php?pic=64jdpf&s=5#.UqTVQfRdWSo

[Michael Browne]

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=64jdpf&s=5#.%20UqTVQfRdWSo

[Jamberson]

It's not too easy to tell - any other angles available?

 

There appear to be a couple of things sticking out, put it's pretty hard to imagine how they could hurt someone who wouldn't be hurt anyway by some sort of collision.

[Kiki1]

I would be more concerned as to where the original bumper might be (on an unlit street, on a major carriageway, halfway off a pavement, just waiting to trap a pedestrian/cyclist/motorcyclist.)

 

 

Not getting out of the car to find out why there was a 'bang' would justify receiving a £100 penalty.

 

Just where is it ?

 

(I trust the bus lane was not active when you took the image)

[Jamberson]

Not getting out of the car to find out why there was a 'bang' would justify receiving a £100 penalty.

 

For what? Shoplifting? Tresspass? Not having a TV licence?

 

The OP was specifically fined for driving a vehicle in a dangerous condition. The only issue which needs to be addressed is whether that is a valid fine. Because you think someone should stop and inspect their vehicle whenever they hear a noise, and if they don't, suffer a fine for some other offence, is not relevant.

[citizenkain]

lol,if it was me,I would be more worried about getting my bumper back!,they aint cheap..

[edjama]

Ashmk, my phone automatically capitalises and any attempt to edit just jumbles all the text. I go with the assumption that the OP would prefer my advice over the text. It is also the reason I try to keep my replies short until I get to the PC. Back to the issue.... At first sight there doesn't appear to be any particularly hazardous parts on your vehicle. I've also started thinking as to what level of evidence would you need in court. What I would do now, is take your vehicle to an MOT testing station. Part of the Mot is to check for hazardous bodywork, so if you could get an MOT tester to confirm they would pass your car in that condition you would have more of a case. If they say they would fail it you can just quietly pay the FPN. I do feel a traffic officers opinion would carry more weight with a judge and therefore an independent view is the way forward. And as stated above, I'd try find that bumper rather than pay to replace!