Tkmaxx allegation of price tag swapping, police investigation and RLP

[Iaia67]

Hello, i am totally new to CAG and need advise.

I am currently Nader police investigation for alleged piece swap where tkmaxx has CCTV passed to the police showing I bought items and returned other items under same receipts.

I recently had a baby and as soon as I could get out of the house I went on a MAD shopping spree period over a couple of months where I was buying on credit card loads of items then return majority of them. On some occasion I would take the price tag off and then return the items within the allowed time having changed my mind. If some price tags were changed it was done completely innocently with no intention of wrongdoing or causing the shop a loss.

One day I was at home alone with mu baby and the police came to search the house, they asked for Ll items I had purchased at tkmaxx recently and they seized them together with credit card statements and purchase receipts found.

Same day I was interviewed on tape by police where I was finally told what the allegations were, I denied any wrongdoing and told them that any wrong price tag swap was due to the large amount of items bought and not remembering which one went where. They had a list of about 10/12 items for which tags may have been swapped at a loss for tkmaxx of approx £260, some of which tkmaxx are saying they were either not purchased from them or they are not fit for resale.

About a month or so later I was called at the police station again for another interview when they showed me the CCTV and told me they could not understand how someone could make such mistake so many times!

I continue saying I did to do any intentional wrongdoing and that the stress of having a baby, tiredness and being disorganised had caused this possible mistake.

On both occasion the police told me to wait to hear more about their decision (I was told it could go to court). The items credit card and receipts seized are still in their possession.

In the meantime while I'm still waiting for a deliberation by the police, I have receive a letter from RLP banning me from tkmaxx for like and asking compensation of £487.

 

I have lost a lot of sleep over this and I'm starting to become ill with worry, I went to the CAB yesterday and told me to reply denying liabilities to the claim and seek legal advise.

I have since spoken to a solicitor who told me to reply to RLP making an offer of part payment as they/tkmaxx could take me to civil court as there is also the possibility I can be taken to criminal court by the police due to the number of items...

 

Over a week has passed for the date on the RLP letter and I still don't know what to do, threads I read seem to suggest to ignore them but my husband is scared they would pass this to the bailiffs.

I am on maternity leave at present and instead of enjoying my time with my baby I cannot focus thinking of what could happen to me.

I have never been involved with the police, my credit score is immaculate and have no debts.

Can RLP access my salary and bank details to see if I can pay them, can they tell my employer to sack me? I have a very good job and cannot afford to loose it when I return from leave.

 

Thanks so much to any advise you can give me, I'm totally confused with all different angles I have been given/reading.

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

With RLP, a smple one liner denying any liability to them is (in my opinion) in order.

 

You will have to wait for the police to do what they need to. If they offer a caution, you will need to think long and hard before accepting this. The police may pass it up to the CPS for evaluation before making a final decision whether to charge or not.

 

On to bailiffs. ONLY if TKMaxx take you to the civil court and IF (big if) they win AND if you failed to pay the judgement then they could send the bailiffs in.

 

Retail Loss Prevention are a money making outfit. Nothing to do with the justice system. They use ignorance to convince people that they are right. They are not.

 

If you were to look at the RLP website, they would show how many cases 'they' have taken to court. I marked they with quotations as RLP have actually taken no one to court. ONLY the retailer can do this so the website is misleading.

 

I would love RLP to come on here and prove me wrong. It won't happen

[Iaia67]

Thank you silverfox1961,

I will reply to the letter with simple denial offering no more details... By the way they totally misspelled my name and surname, not sure if this would be a problem.

And I will wait for the police decision. Hopefully it will come soon one way or another as I hate living in limbo!

[andydd]

This is a very common issue here and the advice we give is always the same. DON'T PAY RLP.

 

Regardless of any criminal action, what RLP/TK Maxx are claiming is that they somehow suffered a loss due to your actions, BUT this is a grey area of law, the most relevant court case is refered to as the Oxford case where the Judge decided that NO money was owning to the Store/RLP.

 

Don't worry, I'd advise that your solicitor is wrong, ask him what relevant case law he is relying upon ?

 

NO, RLP cannot access anything of yours, remember they are a private profit making company, they have no connection with the courts, justice or the police, but they like to imply they do.

 

Don't worry, we will offer support, make sure to re-dact, scan and post any letters you receive from RLP, we enjoy tearing them apart and pointing out the errors contained within.

 

Andy

[Iaia67]

Thank you andydd,

I must admit the various answers I received by cab and solicitors on how to reply or react are at such polar opposites it made me wonder and decided to come here for some light!

 

The solicitor said if it went to court I would have to pay court fees plus any loss incurred so I was better off trying to negotiate with rlp a partial payment. So basically to balance out my options and the part pmt would be cheaper and would get them off my back!

 

So far I only received the preliminary standard letter from them with my so cited "options", should I receive a reply after my denial of liability as per previous post I will upload it here (must learn how to with an iPad first).

 

In any case I will not pay rlp anything.

[Sidewinder]

Don't pay RLP a penny. IF it were to proceed to Court, then TK Maxx have the opportunity to ask for compensation - if it does not go to Court then you will be innocent of wrongdoing so will owe them nothing in any case.

 

RLP should not be pursuing anything - especially whilst charges are still being considered and this would appear to be a gross abuse of process. Only a tiny percentage of anything received from you would go to TK Maxx anyway and the lion's share would just be revenue for RLP.

[andydd]

CAB have a lot of experience with RLP and are therefore very familiar with them and the relevant law, they even had members attend the aforementioned court case.

 

Your solicitor sounds like an ass, there are many IF's, first of all 'if' they went to court, RLP send many thousands of similar demands to payment, and many thousands don't pay so you'd expect there to be lots of cases, but no, there are only a handful and most of those involved different circumstances such as employee theft, there really is only one relevant case (Oxford) and RLP/The Store lost.

 

Even IF and its a very big if, there was a case and someone lost, the fees would be quite small, and be the actual court fees (not costs) which would be well under £100.

 

I doubt paying them would be cheaper than just ignoring them..cost = £0.

[Iaia67]

I wonder if the solicitor was referring to a criminal court fees, he mentioned £600. That without counting the costs of a lawyer.

 

I have read a lot of other posts here about tkmaxx and price tags swap. If it goes to a criminal court I may not have many legs to stand on as I will struggle to prove it was a non intentional mistake as it happened too many times plus the CCTV footage.

 

I will keep you posted on updates and thanks for taking the time on yet another tkmaxx and rlp case.

[maxxer]

£600 is the base costs prosecution will ask for in a criminal trial, if you go not guilty and loose.

 

To set my stand out - I am a former TK Maxx loss prevention manager, who used to deal with cases like yours on a daily basis.

 

your case isn't that of a 'price swap' - IE you switched the ticket in the store and purchased it for a lower price.

 

Your case is refund fraud.

 

TK Maxx are alleging that the products you brought back for a refund, are not those which you purchased in the first place.

 

This is detected very simply. They look at what you brought back, and then look at the cctv of the original purchase. Do the products match ?

 

You will of been identified by the in store loss prevention. They will have noticed (by either random checks, cashier alerting them) that you needed to be looked at, and your refunds checked.

 

TK's wont take on one 'offence' - which could be a legitimate mistake. They wait for a second occasion where the item purchased, isn't the item returned.

 

Having read your case, it will be a very large uphill struggle to convince anyone that 10 or 11 items managed to have their price tickets removed, and then returned incorrectly.

 

Some things to think about:

 

The items returned - were they also tk maxx stock ?, or was it something purchased from somewhere else ?. Would it be easy for TK's to prove ( IE F&F is a Tesco only brand)

 

Did you stick to your local store, or did you visit more than one store ( different stores for purchases and returns) ?

 

Did you give correct details when asked for them, or did you give fake name or address / post code when doing the refunds ?

 

How did the price tickets detach themselves from the original garment, and attach themselves to the other one that was returned ?

 

I would ignore RLP, even as store employees, we used to tell people to ignore it, as we aren't stupid, and if cases were being taken to court by RLP, we would of known about it. A lot of us also read on here !

 

 

Don't worry about any potential civil / rlp case. Worry about getting your ducks in a row for the criminal case if you get charged.

[ScarletPimpernel]

if cases were being taken to court by RLP, we would of known about it. A lot of us also read on here !

 

 

If RLP took anyone to court it would be most unusual. Despite all their threats, RLP cannot be the claimant, and nor are they a proper law firm, so they can't take anyone to court - only the retailer can. So, the question is, do TK Maxx bring court claims in cases like this? I'm not aware of any.

 

I agree with your main point; ignore RLP and consider what to do if the police/CPS prosecute.

[Iaia67]

Thank you maxxer for your insight

 

To answer your questions, all the items were legitimately bought from tkm over several weeks, I was buying several items at each visit then return the unwanted ones always well within the return period.

All the purchases but one were made at my local store.

I always gave my correct details and always paid with same credit card registered to me.

The tags were removed by me (I never denied this point) then on some occasion changed my mind and reattached the tags to the items and then return them. What must have happened (I agree it sounds dodgy and it may be difficult to prove otherwise) that on some of these occasions I might have used the incorrect tag against the item and therefore receipt. There is CCTV footage showing the purchase of item a and the return against that receipt of item b, but I have not been shown or aware they have CCTV footage of the rightful purchase of item b.

 

As to prepare myself for a potential court case and create a chronology, I would need all the receipts (some of those which we're out of the return period I have thrown away, the rest were seized by the police) but despite my several request I still have not received a list of the seized items and receipts, therefore I'm unable just based on card statements to remember what I have bought and when...bear in mind I have just had a baby and have had some stressful time, I don't often have a good memory due to this (any new mum could relate to this but I doubt it would stand in court) and it would probably be difficult for me to remember all the items I bought and all of those returned, their price and the dates.

 

Thanks again

[silverfox1961]

If you get called back to the police station, they should allow you to consult with the duty solicitor.

[Iaia67]

I have been called already a second time about a week ago and spoke to a duty solicitor who did not provide much help, now I just need to wait for the police decision.

 

Back to RLP, I have now replied to them with the one liner advised and nothing more. Could they ban me from any other store just on the basis of the TKM allegation? The CAB guy told me they have damaged more lives than the actual criminal court as they can ban you from almost everywhere...do I live in fear of never to be able to go out, will I be "recognised" in every shop in town...paranoia is settling in

 

Would there be any possibility that the police (or the court if it ends up there) contact my employer and let them know about all this, I have worked for the same employer for many many years.

 

Thanks again

[silverfox1961]

No-one will be the slightest bit interested in you. they don't know who you are what you did so don't walk with your head down.

 

We can't really say what will happen with the police and as for your employers, others will have to respond to that one

[ScarletPimpernel]

RLP can't ban you from anywhere; despite all their big-timing threats, they are actually utterly impotent, although they routinely use what the Law Commission termed misleading and aggressive methods in order to bully people into paying their speculative invoices. CAB are probably thinking of RLP' sister company, Cireco, which is supposedly a database of "offenders" that prospective employers can consult. However, I'm not aware of any companies that actually use it, though La Lambert is fond of waffling about its mystical powers.

 

Unless you are in certain occupations (e.g. Nursing) where the police are obliged to report an arrest to employers, there's no reason to think they would treat the matter as anything other than routine.

[ericsbrother]

The use of the database would give potential employers using it a very bad day in court like the building companies using the blacklist. No-one will be the slightest bit interested in anything that doesnt lead to a conviction so you are miles away from having to justify yourself to anyone and if someone is stupid enough to tout their dodgy business to a current employer they will deserve a good hiding by the ICO

[2Grumpy]

So now RLP are running ahead of any criminal investigation and predicting the outcome or attempting to charge for something that the cpa / courts deem to be unwarranted.

[ScarletPimpernel]

So now RLP are running ahead of any criminal investigation and predicting the outcome or attempting to charge for something that the cpa / courts deem to be unwarranted.

 

Nothing new there.

[2Grumpy]

I wonder what the magistrate's view would be if a defendant were to suggest that they had already been dealt with via the private court system (which is what RLP appear to act as) and that the proper courts were "double jeopardy"

[CAGMan69]

Dear all

 

 

I ashamedly find myself in a similar situation to Iaia67 but I have to say reading this thread has so far helped me understand my predicament more albeit my fate still awaits me.

 

 

With regards to the RLP I have received the same kind of communications and again the commentary on here and onward reference to the likes of the CAB have been very useful

 

 

I am hoping that maxxer can however help me out with a specific question. That being is there a specified time that TKMaxx retain CCTV footage for? There seems to be very conflicting general opinions about the length of time such material is and/or can be stored so I was wondering if you had an insight whilst you were there?

 

 

Thank you all on here once again for the commentary and here's hoping that maxxer you can assist

[andydd]

Dont know about the CCTV, maybe 6 years although i suspect storage issues may mean it is only kept for a few weeks/months, but I dont really see the relevance, why would you care ?

[CAGMan69]

hi, merely from an evidence perspective

[maxxer]

6 years so if court action is needed, then the evidence is there

[dx100uk]

Hi guys,

 

I think i made return incorrectly by returning wrong bag I realised this just know reading forums that i might get charged I did it not on purpose my partner told me to return and it seemed i returned wrong one and prie tag was off so i didnt realised it was wrong. what should i do know? and there might be more occasions i just realise in the past as i didnt bother to much but know i know this is offence what should i do??? Please help as i am stressed should i go back and tell tk maxx of this or what should i do?

 

 

Thank you

 

 

please start a new thread

 

dx