Credit Card Debt - now received a Claimform **Disc'd**

[1099OID]

I have a Debt collector chasing me for a debt that they bought off credit card supplier back in September2012

 

as soon as I got the DCA first letter I started the three letter process and a sent a fee schedule,

since then and have sent them around 17 invoices.

 

They then passed the debt to another debt collection company, so I started the three letter process and sent fee schedule and 1 invoice.

 

All of a sudden I get a court papers from Northampton money claim on line with a solicitors firm on the paper work,

 

claim for the original DCA who bought the debt.

 

after looking through my file I have found a copy of the credit agreement with my original credit supplier sent to me In march 2013.

 

For which I sent them an invoice.

And they kept sending me letter I kept sending them invoices

I am look for defence help and ideas

 

Credit card supplier sold the debt to the DCA which it says in the original contract,

the credit card company can transfer all their right to another.

 

Which part of the Bills of exchange states that if another buys the debt then there is no more debt?

 

I have asked for a copy of a contract between the DCA and my self not the original credit card company

and the deed of Novation which I have not received.

 

Regarding the deed of assignment (which I have not received)

 

In contract law if you breach the contract, the courts it normally balance one side loss with what the contract would have supplied them if the contract had run it course.

 

Since the DCA and I have no contract and they only paid pennies in the pound for the contract,

how can I show they have had no loss to the original debt value?

 

Could any body you let me know any laws

I may use like the consumer credit act 1974,

 

The bills of exchange etc

Edited December 4, 2013 by Andyorch
Paragraphs added

[AndyOrch]

Hi sfbpest

 

 

I think it may be wise for you to research Debt Assignment and how the process works....before you consider defending this claim.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

PS I will amend your thread title.

[1099OID]

just to speed up the search process could you point me in the right direction to any posts either on this site or another please.

[1099OID]

the the original credit card supplier has said they have sold the the debt to the DCA,

the debt collection company has said they have bought the debt will that make any difference.

 

i know that if it get assigned it is normally still with the original company and they have assigned the DCA to collect on their behalf.

[AndyOrch]

That is because there are 2 types of assignment Legal and Equitable

 

An Equitable Assignmet ....An assignment which does not fulfil the statutory criteria for a legal assignment. An equitable assignment may be made in one of two ways:

The assignor can inform the assignee that he transfers a right or rights to him.

The assignor can instruct the other party or parties to the agreement to discharge their obligation to the assignee instead of the assignor.

 

Only the benefit of an agreement may be assigned. There is no requirement for written notice to be given or received. The only significant difference between a legal assignment and an equitable assignment is that an equitable assignee often cannot bring an action in its own name against the third party contractor, but must fall back on the rules governing equitable assignments and join the assignor as party to the action.

 

A legal Assignment is the usual way of assigning the benefit of any debt or other legal thing in action under section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925. Under that section, the basic requirements for a legal assignment are as follows:

 

Only the benefit of an agreement may be assigned.

The assignment must be absolute.

The rights to be assigned must be wholly ascertainable and must not relate to part only of a debt.

The assignment must be in writing and signed under hand by the assignor.

Notice of the assignment must be received by the other party or parties for the assignment to take effect.

 

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?345106-Debt-Assignment

 

Regards

 

Andy

[mjt2013]

I have a Debt collector chasing me for a debt that they bought of credit card supplier back in September2012 as soon as I got the DCC first letter I started the three letter process and a sent a fee schedule, since then and have sent them around 17 invoices. They then self’s passed the debt to another debt collection company, so I started the three letter process and sent fee schedule and 1 invoice...For which I sent them an invoice. And they kept sending me letter I kept sending them invoices

 

What on Earth are you invoicing them for?

[Annie71]

He has been reading the fmotl website. Complete trash

[Old Cogger]

I have a Debt collector chasing me for a debt that they bought of credit card supplier back in September2012 as soon as I got the DCC first letter I started the three letter process and a sent a fee schedule, since then and have sent them around 17 invoices. They then self’s passed the debt to another debt collection company, so I started the three letter process and sent fee schedule and 1 invoice.

 

All of a sudden I get a court papers from Northampton money claim on line with a solicitors firm on the paper work, claim for the original DCC who bought the debt. So after looking through my file I have found a copy of the credit agreement with my original credit supplier sent to me In march 2013. For which I sent them an invoice. And they kept sending me letter I kept sending them invoices

So I am look for defence help and ideas

 

Credit card supplier sold the debt to the DCC which it says in the original contract, the credit card company can transfer all there right to another. Which part of the Bills of exchange states that if another buys the debt then there is no more debt?

 

I have asked for a copy of a contract between the DCC and my self not the original credit card company and the deed of Novation which I have not received.

Regarding the deed of assignment (which I have not received)

 

In contract law if you breach the contract, the courts it normally balance one side loss with what the contract would have supplied them if the contract had run it course. Since the DCC and I have no contract and they only paid pennies in the pound for the contract, how can I show they have had no loss to the original debt value?

Could any body you let me know any laws I may use like the consumer credit act 1974, The bills of exchange etc

 

 

get to grips and see if any area you can defend!

Edited December 5, 2013 by Andyorch
EXternal Link removed to other websites

[renegadeimp]

If you use fotl arguments you WILL lose. Guaranteed.

[Old Cogger]

If you use fotl arguments you WILL lose. Guaranteed.

 

 

 

Fact!

[1099OID]

Any suggestion on a defence then may under contract law

 

1/ a copy of a contract where i gave permission for my details to be given to a third party date protection act ?.

or breach of contract by them by selling the debt without informing me,

changing the contract, no more meeting of the minds?

 

the amount they paid is lees than being claimed so can not show loss for the amount claim making it a unfair contract ?

also why is the bills of exchange not a good idea as a part of a defence?

i am looking for help guys.

 

I am not going to give the ins and out of my life for the last ten years i am not after sympathy,

but i am on the bones of my arse with Christmas looming, ( a northern expression)

 

my wife at the moment earns the most and works for a bank as a cashier

so any CCJ,s on my record or liens on the mortgage could put her in a difficult position with her job

 

i know a lot could come back with a lot of smart reply s like well you should have not done this or that.

but that is not going to help me in front of a judge.

[havinastella]

When did you take the card out? How much was your limit? What are they claiming?

[Ganymede]

I think you should forget about data protection, contract and assignment arguments.

 

As has been said, forget the FOTL nonsense.

[mjt2013]

I think you should forget about data protection, contract and assignment arguments.

 

As has been said, forget the FOTL nonsense.

 

Absolutely right. Please ignore that ridiculous tosh (I've been researching since my earlier post!)

[Annie71]

Contrary to what you have been told on another site these so called defences are an absolute disaster . If you have a defence it will be due to flaws in the agreement or default. Somethingto do with cca1974

[mjt2013]

You may want to start from scratch; abandoning the nonsense, do you owe the money? Have you got all of the paperwork you need?

[1099OID]

it was taken out in July 2002 at a country fair,

it looks like it was an application form,

on the back it is two thirds blank at the top with the T&cs at the bottom of the page.

it says on the front in one section of this page you must read condition 11

but it is not found on the front or back on the form the rest of the pages sent

look as if they come from another form.

 

i could blank out my details and post if required.

[1099OID]

Reply to mjt2013 For my time having to deal with there letter, since they have not supplied any of the documentation requested

[Annie71]

There is no chance of getting them to pay for your time just as you are not paying for there time.

Have you sent a cca request?

 

When was the card taken out?

[mjt2013]

OP, you need to start being sensible about this if you want to deal with it properly.

[steampowered]

Any suggestion on a defence then may under contract law 1/ a copy of a contract where i gave permission for my details to be given to a third party date protection act ?. or breach of contract by them by selling the debt without informing me, changing the contract, no more meeting of the minds? the amount they paid is lees than being claimed so can not show loss for the amount claim making it a unfair contract ? also why is the bills of exchange not a good idea as a part of a defence? i am looking for help guys.

 

I am not going to give the ins and out of my life for the last ten years i am not after sympathy, but i am on the bones of my arse with Christmas looming, ( a northern expression) my wife at the moment earns the most and works for a bank as a cashier so any CCJ,s on my record or liens on the mortgage could put her in a difficult position with her job i know a lot could come back with a lot of smart reply s like well you should have not done this or that. but that is not going to help me in front of a judge.

To answer your questions:

 

 

1/ I don't think they would need any permission from you under the Data Protection Act. Contrary to popular belief, the DPA does not provide for an absolute bar on data transfers.

2/ The contract will entitle them to assign the debt to someone else.

3/ When a debt is assigned, the person to whom it is assigned steps into the shoes of the original creditor and can pursue the entire debt not just the amount it paid for it.

4/ A Bill of Exchange has a defined legal meaning, basically it means a banker's draft. A credit card agreement is not a bill of exchange.

5/ I don't think a CCJ on your credit file should affect your wife's credit file. The exception would be if the debt is a joint debt.

 

 

There is no magic response that will make this all just go away, no matter how much you want it. You have to face this.

 

 

If you want sensible help, you need to go back to square 1 and explain to us what the debt is for and exactly what documents you have received.

[1099OID]

I would like to thank you for your help like some of the site team and senior members who have given me places to look for help like Law of Property Act 1925.

and ideas where to look etc. but there seem to be a few who like to make comments but don't offer any help

 

just like any one starting out you check the internet and you start to educated your self but it does take time to sort out fact for fiction,

so when you find sites with forums like this one stating alleged wins by people from all walks of life using there methods

and have some allegedly real success with you have a tendency to believe that some of the statements are true.

 

it is no good to me if you say thing like (that's rubbish using there method it will be a disaster for you )

what will be help me is, that's rubbish using there method it will be a disaster for you because??and give a reason.

 

but i am now studding contract law and finance but i am at a very early stage so my knowledge is still very limited so this is why i come to to sites like this for help.

[dx100uk]

Ok as as been said, FORGET the freedom of the land stuff and sites you have read and been too

that will guarantee you getting a CCJ by default.

 

now tell us about the debt please

 

when did you take the card out

Who was the original creditor

when did you last use the card or pay something toward it

Who has taken you to court

what is the status of the debt on your credit file.

 

please type out the PoC as on the claim form

 

you need to ack the claim and [defend all? or nothing - partial will guarantee a default CCJ]

using the password etc on the claim for within 14 days of its date

then you have a further 14 days + 5 to get your defence in

[33 days in total]

 

dx

[1099OID]

when did you take the card out (July 2002)

 

Who was the original creditor (I would rather not say at the moment I do not wish my details to be identified.)

 

when did you last use the card or pay something toward it (at a guess Nov 2012)

 

Who has taken you to court (the debt collection company who purchased the debt)

 

what is the status of the debt on your credit file. (I don’t understand the question do you mean my credit sore?)

the particulars of claim are listed below

 

I have listed what I have done below and I have tried to include

I started my process back in November 2012, I sent the three letters and an a unilateral contract/ fee schedule, asking to show evidence of a contract also loss and a deed of Novation, since they had bought the debt, I got the usual we have asked the original lender for a copy of the contract etc (if they bought the debt should they not have had a copy?) and kept sending me demands and I kept invoicing them for my time.

 

How ever in march 2013 I receive a 1 page photo copy of the application form I filled out at a country fair back in 2002, it contained my details address job title etc, it was not my writing it looks like it was filled in by the person at the time but it does contain my signature and that of the person who filled in the form.

 

On the back it is two thirds blank and the last third is where the terms and conditions start. On the front of the form it says that before you sign you must read condition 11. On the terms and conditions provided,

 

But on the back it starts at 1 and finishes at 2.4 at the top of the page it says page 1 of 2 and the other side says page 2 of 2 if this is a copy of the original why is the back two thirds blank .

 

The other document is a 3 page double sided copy of an agreement but it is not a photo copy it has been printed of a PC. It starts top left in bold a credit card agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974. Your lender is XXXX and then my name and addresses no signatures.

 

So I sent them an invoice to see what would happen and all they did was keep sending demands for money I kept invoicing them for my time. In July 2013 they sent the debt to another debt collection company and I started the 3 letter process with them.

 

Then out of the blue I got the court papers through my door

The particulars of claim are

 

1 a credit card agreement made between xxxx bank ltd and the card holder D

2 2 claimant purchased the balance of the account on the 30.01.12

3 3 D accrued balance #4647.99

4 D defaulted on payment

5 C issued formal demand requesting payment dated 01/11/2013

6 Amount now due from D # 4647.99

 

Plus court fees of 100. And solicitors of 80.00 ect

The original bank did not tell me until September 2012 but according to the particulars of claim they bought it back in January 2012

 

Any ideas you have would be gratefully received, I have a few which I would like advice on

 

Must they list a cause of action in the particulars of claim? Like breach of contract etc

What about not following pre action protocol

Wasting court time

Using the court to enforce with out supping the documents I requested never received deed of Novation or deed of assignment etc

 

Would the application form be classed as an offer to treat and not an offer of contract as not every body would get a credit card just by filling in that form so no formal contract was signed. ?

 

Not supplying signed statement of accounts Re cca 1974

Also what is the burden of proof on them if they say they sent my document in the post but don’t have any proof of postage like postage receipt, would that be classed as hearsay?

 

All my document are signed for

Edited December 15, 2013 by honeybee13

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

To help the people advising you, I've put some paragraphs into your post. If you're having problems with posts that you put paragaphs in and then lose them, please tell us and someone like dx will probably be able to tell you how to overcome the problem.

 

My best, HB