Suspended, Disciplinary Hearing help

[SadBear]

It's my first message here, been reading a few posts and decided to ask for help.

 

A few weeks ago I was suspended from work, pending investigation. I was shocked as I had no idea I had done anything wrong, then I read the letter which said I maliciously didn't tell work I was going away the day before.

 

Right, it goes like this: I booked my holiday months in advance following the company's procedure, then my line manager left and we had a meeting with the new manager, I then reminded them of my upcoming holidays (2 were booked at the same time), they asked me to forward the dates to them after the meeting which I did straight away.

 

The day before I was due to go on holiday, I was extremely busy at work trying to finish everything, so I didn't remember to remind anyone that I was going away. I was sure everything knew anyway as it was booked months in advance and we've spoken about it several times openly in the office.

 

Basically they've done an investigation and they think I decided not to tell them about my holiday. I was in the investigatory meeting for a couple of hours and somehow they decided to include only a few lines in the final report of the meeting.

 

I'm due to go to a disciplinary meeting in a couple of days and the letter says that's it will be treated as gross misconduct so I could be summary dismissed following the meeting.

 

I'm finding everything too exaggerated, I've booked my holidays appropriately (which they agree), but now I might lose my job as I didn't get the chance to remind them I was going away? Could you please advise, thanks.

[All animals are equal....]

Just trying to understand.

1. You followed procedure when booking your holidays.

2. The company agrees that you booked your holidays in accordance with policy and they were approved.

3. Your colleagues (including manager)were all aware that you were going away.

Does it say anywhere in company policy or procedure that you have to remind them?

[SadBear]

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes but apparently they are now saying that they forgot that I was going away and that office chit chat is not valid. They basically denied in the investigation report that they ever knew about my holiday.

 

No, it doesn't say anywhere that I need to remind them before I go on holiday.

Edited December 4, 2013 by SadBear

[SadBear]

Forgot to say, they are saying that I caused stress on a colleague (we both do the same job) and she had no idea I was going away (even though we have chatted about it several times, which she denies). She had to cover me when I was away, but I also had to cover her a couple of months ago when she was away, and she also covered me on my previous holiday. That's the way it works, we cover each other on annual leave and sick leave.

 

They are saying I didn't do a handover before going away, so I caused them financial loss, etc. But I am requested to do a daily handover, which I did before going away (as I do every day, and it was the same procedure used before my previous holiday a couple of months ago).

 

I know I should have told them, after I left work someone asked me if they know I'm going away, which I replied "yes as it's been booked several months ago and we've talked about it openly in the office". Now they are saying that I had the chance to go back to work and inform them, but I honesty thought they knew.

Edited December 4, 2013 by SadBear

[All animals are equal....]

There will probably be many more experienced people along soon however I think that as long as you have followed procedure then any investigation will find no case to answer.

Does the policy say you have to tell your colleague that you are going on holiday? If not then it would be down to whoever should have informed them of the extra workload.

Can you get a copy of the handover that you left or any others if you have to do them every day?

[orfoster]

I'm sorry but this is utterly ridiculous.

 

You've clearly evidenced the reasons you didn't exercise this good practice. It's a management issue in my view.

 

What type of business does your employer undertake? Have you had any other disciplinary's?

How long have you worked there?

[SadBear]

There will probably be many more experienced people along soon however I think that as long as you have followed procedure then any investigation will find no case to answer.

Does the policy say you have to tell your colleague that you are going on holiday? If not then it would be down to whoever should have informed them of the extra workload.

Can you get a copy of the handover that you left or any others if you have to do them every day?

 

I was allowed supervised access to my emails before the investigatory meeting, I then printed a copy of my holiday request and subsequent forwarding to the new manager. I have also printed the handover I did on the day before (daily practice), however the final investigation report doesn't mention that I did a handover or anything. Actually it says that I left work unfinished and didn't do a handover, which I have clearly done and presented evidence at the investigatory meeting. It's all so frustrating and upsetting!

[SadBear]

I'm sorry but this is utterly ridiculous.

 

You've clearly evidenced the reasons you didn't exercise this good practice. It's a management issue in my view.

 

What type of business does your employer undertake? Have you had any other disciplinary's?

How long have you worked there?

 

It's an office job in education. I've been working for them for over 6 years, they've always mentioned I'm hard working etc, so I've got a very good record.

 

I had a disciplinary issue 5 years ago when they tried to make me redundant and I wrote a grievance letter as they were employing lots of new people at the same time. Apart from this disciplinary (totally ridiculous by the way), I've got a clean record.

 

Lately however I haven't been doing as many unpaid overtime as I used to. Nobody said that's the reason for the disciplinary, but I have a feeling they are trying to get rid of me because of that. I'm still performing my job very well during my working hours, but we are short staffed, so they expect me to do unpaid overtime so they don't have to hire more people.

[orfoster]

I'm sure this is quite a stressful time for you.

It's important that you challenge the inaccuracy of the report and that you do this in writing in order to evidence that you've done so and why, even if you do this verbally and then follow up in writing.

When is your hearing? Have you seen all of the documents they intend to rely on ie witness statements of your colleagues?

[SadBear]

Thank you for your advice, it is a very long report, full of inaccuracies, so I will challenge it in writing. Should it be done before the hearing? The hearing is on Friday, it was meant to be today, but I was only sent the statements last night (after I requested).

 

Also, I haven't been allowed to speak to anyone until yesterday so haven't been able to invite anyone to come to the hearing with me.

 

I have asked to call in witnesses at the hearing, but I was told they can't see the connection between the witness with the allegations.

 

I have also requested access to my emails since new evidence has appeared, but it was denied. I was told I had one chance to print any documents and that's it (but the chance was before the investigatory meeting, I had no idea what would be sent to me following the meeting.

[orfoster]

Ok by working over 6 years you have employment rights, this means you are protected from being unfairly dismissed. It's important you aren't complacent and you've done the right thing seeking advice.

 

Are you a member of a trade union?

 

The issue you mention doesn't appear to be a disciplinary? It appears you talk about a grievance over a redundancy issue and not something you were penalised for?

 

In any event you have nothing currently on your file, I am concerned based on the information you've given me about the alleged gross misconduct.

 

I deal with these cases every day and this appears to be one of the most silly!

 

You will have to prepare yourself to submit a statement to the hearing in a couple of days time, are you taking a colleague or a union rep in with you?

[orfoster]

Thank you for your advice, it is a very long report, full of inaccuracies, so I will challenge it in writing. Should it be done before the hearing? The hearing is on Friday, it was meant to be today, but I was only sent the statements last night (after I requested). Also, I haven't been allowed to speak to anyone until yesterday so haven't been able to invite anyone to come to the hearing with me. I have asked to call in witnesses at the hearing, but I was told they can't see the connection between the witness with the allegations.

 

I think you should call for an adjournment based on the lack of clarity over the process, you have to have adequate time to prepare your case and by sending you the documents last night isn't adequate given the fact this is gross misconduct, what does the disciplinary policy say? Some are quite indepth and talk about the time you should have before a hearing and yes witnesses can be called.

 

Check out the ACAS website for more information on disciplinary's.

 

I would raise your objections to the inaccuracies in the report in writing before the hearing noting you've only just received them to be able to comment on the content and because of not being able to prepare your case you need an adjournment.

[SadBear]

I haven't been trying to find out what I'm entitled to as I can't believe it's all happening. Out of the blue, I was called for a meeting just before I was about to leave work and told that I was suspended until further notice.

 

I'm not a member of an union, unfortunately. I tried today to get hold of a colleague (I asked them and I was told I could get in touch with one person to invite for the meeting), but they haven't got back to me, so I might have to ask someone else. I suppose everyone is scared as the whole situation is absurd. When I went to the office for the investigatory meeting, my colleagues were surprised to see me and kept asking where I was etc.

 

Regarding the past event, first they called me for a redundancy meeting, then I noticed that they were employing new people and wrote a grievance letter. Following that, they found a silly reason for a disciplinary meeting.

[All animals are equal....]

I'm not sure that you need witnessess. You have the evidence that supports your case - you followed procedure.

Have they shown you in the policy where you have failed to follow procedure? This is what you are alledgedly in breach of.

Take copies of all your evidence for future reference just in case.

[SadBear]

I think you should call for an adjournment based on the lack of clarity over the process, you have to have adequate time to prepare your case and by sending you the documents last night isn't adequate given the fact this is gross misconduct, what does the disciplinary policy say? Some are quite indepth and talk about the time you should have before a hearing and yes witnesses can be called.

 

Check out the ACAS website for more information on disciplinary's.

 

I would raise your objections to the inaccuracies in the report in writing before the hearing noting you've only just received them to be able to comment on the content and because of not being able to prepare your case you need an adjournment.

 

The disciplinary policy is very vague, says that I have the right to be accompanied at the meeting and it can be postponed up to 5 days if my companion cannot make the original date.

 

I have checked the ACAS website several times, but cannot find any guidance on time limits. I don't want them thinking that I don't want to sort it out and I'm just delaying it, but I want to make sure I have enough time to do everything properly.

[orfoster]

Agree - The policy they allege you are in breach of is important.

You need to protect your position and research the way in which disciplinary's are dealt with, ACAS have some excellent information on their website.

 

It seems based on past experience your employer is a but trigger happy on disciplinaries.

[SadBear]

I'm not sure that you need witnessess. You have the evidence that supports your case - you followed procedure.

Have they shown you in the policy where you have failed to follow procedure? This is what you are alledgedly in breach of.

Take copies of all your evidence for future reference just in case.

 

The investigator found that I followed the company's procedure when booking my holiday, but it says that I made no further attempt to inform the company that I was going away, and that my explanation that they were aware of my holiday as it was booked well in advance and we have all chatted about it in the office is not strong enough.

 

Basically they are saying that I tried to damage the company's reputation by maliciously not informing them of my annual leave. That's what they are considering to be gross misconduct.

[Sidewinder]

Yes - not only keep copies of all the evidence that you have, but also make a point of stating during the hearing - and have it detailed in the notes - that you requested access to emails which would prove your innocence but that this request was refused.

 

You should have sufficient with what you do have, however in the unlikely event that you were to be dismissed and take the case to a Tribunal it will be that much harder for the employer to deny the existence of incriminating emails when you ask for disclosure if you have referenced this in the hearing notes.

 

I really can't see how they think this warrants a disciplinary providing that procedure was followed in booking the holiday.

[orfoster]

I think you're right to want to take time. I think they'll understand, this your job we are talking about here, it's important you have all the information to put your case, you have the right to appeal any final decision of a hearing but they should allow you time to put your case.

 

The management side will have had that report ages (I'd hope) or at least longer than you so it's only fair you are able to prepare your defence. Especially as you say it's a detailed lengthy report.

 

It does seem here the employer is overreacting, I don't understand why you've been suspended and I still don't see how this is gross misconduct based on what you've said - but that's why I don't sit on their side of the table I guess.

[SadBear]

Yes - not only keep copies of all the evidence that you have, but also make a point of stating during the hearing - and have it detailed in the notes - that you requested access to emails which would prove your innocence but that this request was refused.

 

You should have sufficient with what you do have, however in the unlikely event that you were to be dismissed and take the case to a Tribunal it will be that much harder for the employer to deny the existence of incriminating emails when you ask for disclosure if you have referenced this in the hearing notes.

 

I really can't see how they think this warrants a disciplinary providing that procedure was followed in booking the holiday.

 

I am 99% sure that I will be dismissed following the disciplinary hearing. There is this whole witness statements from colleagues saying how different it would all have been if I reminded them that I was going away. But the truth is, nothing would be different, we never get outside staff to cover absences, we just deal with everything when someone goes away and we complete daily reports anyway, so there is always a handover at the end of the day.

[SadBear]

I think you're right to want to take time. I think they'll understand, this your job we are talking about here, it's important you have all the information to put your case, you have the right to appeal any final decision of a hearing but they should allow you time to put your case.

 

The management side will have had that report ages (I'd hope) or at least longer than you so it's only fair you are able to prepare your defence. Especially as you say it's a detailed lengthy report.

 

It does seem here the employer is overreacting, I don't understand why you've been suspended and I still don't see how this is gross misconduct based on what you've said - but that's why I don't sit on their side of the table I guess.

 

They are saying it's gross misconduct (which I don't agree) as it was an act of dishonesty the fact that I didn't remind them that I was going away. Based on that, I could get dismissed.

 

I agree that I should ask for more time, it took them 2 weeks to send me the witness statements following the investigation. They sent me a disciplinary hearing a few days ago, but didn't attach the statements to it. It was only sent last night after I asked for it.

[All animals are equal....]

That witness statement is only important if it says in the policy that it was your responsibility to inform them.

If it was not( must be in policy/procedures) then they need to look for the person whose job it was.

Which policy do they say you have breached?

[SadBear]

That witness statement is only important if it says in the policy that it was your responsibility to inform them.

If it was not( must be in policy/procedures) then they need to look for the person whose job it was.

Which policy do they say you have breached?

 

My manager said in the statement that they had no idea I was going away, that they forgot I booked my holiday as it was gone a long time ago.

 

It doesn't say I breached any policy. It says that I maliciously didn't remind them of my holiday, and for not doing that, I have damaged the company's reputation. That's why I'm being accused of gross misconduct.

[All animals are equal....]

Your manager forgot. Please tell me they are not involved in this investigation/hearing?

Did your manager maliciously forget???

[SadBear]

They are all involved in the investigation and hearing. It's all ridiculous. A very good friend is the investigator, another very good friend will be the chair of the hearing.

 

The investigation report added lots of info that were not discussed in the investigatory meeting, saying that they presented those to me (they haven't, of course) and my response to most questions somehow didn't make to the report. So it seems that the 2h that I was in the meeting was for only a few lines in the report. It's all a joke (not a funny one, a very stressful one!!!)