Jump to content


Parking in a shopping centre


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 6286 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 105
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Hi Popsy

 

Who are you trying to tell? If it's the debt collection agency you last wrote about, you need to tell them that the payment they are claiming is in dispute with the parking company, and the company should never have passed your details to them.

 

When you do this, the only correct course of action for the agency is to hand the problem back to the parking co. If they do anything else, like stepping up the pressure or arriving on your doorstep making demands they are acting illegally and you should call the police. Do not let them in. They have no authority to take anything from you.

 

If it's the parking company, I think you've probably already told them enough. Any further correspondence by you will be futile and will only encourage them to pile on the pressure. I haven't tracked back through the entire thread to see what you did say, but they know they've gone as far as they can. Like others on this thread, I do not believe they will take you to court as their claim in unenforceable.

 

I've read through hundreds of stories on this forum and the pepipoo parking ticket forum, and I've yet to hear of anyone being taken to court. Knowing my luck, I may be the first!

 

Keep fighting

 

B2B

Link to post
Share on other sites

Phantom how do i legally tell them that their charge is unenforceable?

 

 

A letter along the lines of;

 

Ref; Your excess charge ticket number XXXXXXX

 

Dear Crooks,

 

On XX/XX/2006 I was parked in a private car park at XXXXXXXXXXX whereupon I recieved the above mentioned ticket from you.

 

It is my belief that the ticket in question was issued due to circumstances arising from a purported breach of the parking contract I entered into upon entering the car park. If this is not the case then I would be greatful if you would point out to me me statutory provisions which allow you to collect this sum.

 

Having reaserched the legal issues involved it has become clear to me that the issuing of a fine or "penalty" charge in relation to a purported breach of contract is unlawful in English Law and, consequently, is entirely unenforcible.

 

This being the case I wish to inform you that I will not be paying this sum. You must cease from any attempt to collect this sum. Demanding a sum of money that is not lawfully due and backing up that demand with menaces is a criminal offence. Attempting to collect a sum of money by using threats of legal action where no cause of action exists constitutes criminal harassement.

 

Do not contact me again. Should I receive any communication from you - other than to acknowledge that you will not be pursuing this matter further - I will consider this criminal harassement and will contact the police.

 

P.

Northern Rock; S.A.R sent 11/8/06 - Delivered. Recieved details of 6 yrs charges on 8th. Wrote back asking whether or not they hold information going back further than that.

MBNA; S.A.R sent 11/8/06 - Delivered 14/8/06

Barclays; S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request sent 11/8/06 - Del 14/8/06

Diners Club; S.A.R sent 11/8/06 - Delivered 14/8/06. Recieved form to fill and return with fee on 17/8/06. Sent form back, delivered 4/9/06.

Intelligent Finance; Prelim letter emailed 16/08/06, claiming £318. Email recieved from "Anne-Marie" 17/8/06 saying my email has been passed to Customer Relations dept. Fob-off letter received 23/8/06, letter sent in return same day - Delivered 24/8/6 Recieved letter offer 25% settelement - refused - LBA sent. MCOL on 10th revcieved notification that they intend to defend on 13th. 06/9/2006 WON!!!!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I would advise going after the land owner as the parking company are their agents. When you entered the CP any contract you may have had was with the land owner

 

They may at 1st try but they cannot relinquish responsibility for the parking companies actions.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's if you can find out who the land owner is of course.

 

ASSG, who are currently harrassing me, smugly informed me that the Data Protection Act requires them to protect the identity of the land owner.

 

Of course, the same act did not protect me from them. The DVLA happily took their money for my name and address. Oh for the days when governments and their agencies did not consider themselves above the law.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Here we go again. They are talking absolute rubbish. Once again we have these sorts of cretins hiding behind the DPA. It may even be possible that they do not have an agreement to act for the owner. Won't be the 1st time

 

Go on line to the Land Registry Website a for a small fee you will be given details of who owns the land

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's if you can find out who the land owner is of course.

 

ASSG, who are currently harrassing me, smugly informed me that the Data Protection Act requires them to protect the identity of the land owner.

 

Of course, the same act did not protect me from them. The DVLA happily took their money for my name and address. Oh for the days when governments and their agencies did not consider themselves above the law.

 

As I have posted in another thread, the Data Protection Act does not give you control of your personal data.

 

As long as the DVLA act fairly and within the uses of personal data registered in their DPA registration, then they are acting lawfully and you cannot prevent them.

 

As far as ASSG are concerned, if the landowner is a company, then the DPA does not apply (as this would be company data, not personal data); also there is a specific exemption (Section 35) in the DPA for legal/court proceedings. Furthermore, the data is already in the public domain on the Land Registry website.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi pat

 

I think that as far as the DVLA is concerned the jury is still out on that one. The ICO are still looking into their disclosure of our data to all & sundry particularly since they have discovered that no criminal checks are made on those who apply.

The high value car thieves no longer have to follow the victim home they just contact the DVLA on some pretext who for a very small fee will assist them in the commission of their criminal act

Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as the DVLA act fairly and within the uses of personal data registered in their Data Protection Act registration, then they are acting lawfully and you cannot prevent them.

 

That's the thing though - DVLA aren't playing by the rules. DVLA are only allowed to give out your information to people who have "reasonable cause" to have it. I cannot accept that a company or person who wants the information to pursue an unlawful, unenforcible and unfair penalty charge could in any way be considered as having anything remotely cloase to "reasonable cause"

 

P.

Northern Rock; S.A.R sent 11/8/06 - Delivered. Recieved details of 6 yrs charges on 8th. Wrote back asking whether or not they hold information going back further than that.

MBNA; S.A.R sent 11/8/06 - Delivered 14/8/06

Barclays; S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request sent 11/8/06 - Del 14/8/06

Diners Club; S.A.R sent 11/8/06 - Delivered 14/8/06. Recieved form to fill and return with fee on 17/8/06. Sent form back, delivered 4/9/06.

Intelligent Finance; Prelim letter emailed 16/08/06, claiming £318. Email recieved from "Anne-Marie" 17/8/06 saying my email has been passed to Customer Relations dept. Fob-off letter received 23/8/06, letter sent in return same day - Delivered 24/8/6 Recieved letter offer 25% settelement - refused - LBA sent. MCOL on 10th revcieved notification that they intend to defend on 13th. 06/9/2006 WON!!!!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

As many people are now writing to their doctors withdrawing consent for their data to be put on the new NHS data base because they don't trust the government I too have written to the DVLA withdrawing my consent to process my data except in the case of the prevention of crime or at the behest of the police.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder how long it will be before it becomes "compulsory"?

 

The usual trick is to impose conditions, e.g. in the future you might have the option to withdraw you consent but they might in the future say, "fine, but we can't give you a driving licence if you do", that's the way things seem to be going.

I only mouth my opinion, please look elsewhere for sensible advice! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

They are already doing it. The Chief Medical Officer has written to all GP's demanding to know the name & addresses of all of those who opt out. many are refusing to answer that question on the grounds that it would be a breach of the DPA

Link to post
Share on other sites

this is the reply to my email

 

 

Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency

Data Protection Officer

DVLA

Longview Road

Swansea

SA6 7JL

 

Telephone

01792 765258

 

 

 

 

 

Fax

01792 765211

Minicom

 

Email

[email protected]

Website

www.direct.gov.uk/motoring

 

 

 

 

Your Ref

 

Our Ref

 

 

 

Date:

11 December 2006

 

 

 

Dear xxxxxxxx

 

Thank you for your further e-mail of 27 November about the release of your details to the private car park enforcement company, BPM. This has been passed to me to reply as I have responsibility for the release of information and data protection issues.

 

Firstly, may I explain that DVLA takes very seriously its duty under the Data Protection Act to protect the privacy of the motorists whose details it holds for the purpose of registering and licensing vehicles, and to comply with the Act’s guiding principles.

 

The manner in which parking companies obtain vehicle keeper details from the Agency depends on the type of parking contravention being investigated. Vehicle keeper details may be supplied free of charge to local authorities, or their agents, investigating a decriminalised parking contravention. Requests for keeper details to enforce parking restrictions on private land are considered only when ‘reasonable cause’ has been demonstrated. There is a £2.50 fee to cover the administrative costs of providing this information.

 

Drakes have an electronic link with the Agency to request and receive data on behalf of local authorities. Companies that request and receive information electronically are visited by DVLA staff prior to any link being established. These links are operated in the context of clear terms of agreement, which outlines when information maybe requested, how it can be used and how it should be stored.

 

 

 

The Agency has written to Drakes requesting they explain the circumstance for their enquiry. Drakes have confirmed that it requested the information on behalf of BPM via its electronic link. This request should have been submitted via the fee paying route rather than via the non fee paying link. The Agency is satisfied that this was a genuine error on behalf of BPM and Drakes and that no malice or unlawful intent in its actions. DVLA is satisfied that there was ‘reasonable cause’ for the request.

 

Drakes have now amended their procedures so that this does not happen again. Once the error was identified all documentation was destroyed in line with data protection procedures.

 

The private car parking industry is not regulated, and even if it were, this would fall outside the remit of the DVLA. Therefore, the Agency is not able to influence the value of penalties imposed, the time allowed to park or even enforce concerns about signage etc. These matters are decided between the company and the landlord that employs them. The Agency is required to release information on the basis that ‘reasonable cause’ is demonstrated. Circumstances relating to an incident and appeals should be made directly to the company.

 

New measures were introduced on 1 November, after a review on the release of information by the Minister of State for Transport. These new measures should ensure that the release of information from the Agency’s vehicle register is undertaken in a way that protects vehicle keepers form the misuse of their data but ensures that those who do have ‘reasonable cause’ receive the data they need.

 

I hope this now clarifies the Agency’s position.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Sent unsigned via e-mail.

 

Mrs Catherine Bowden

Data Protection Officer

just as i thought it,s not their problem:evil:,shall i continue with a complaint to the ico?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The same Catherine Bowden who I received correspondance from in relation to a driver who knocked me off my motorcycle and then gave me false details. The usual enquiries due a blank, but then I discovered that the van had been sold, so I asked DVLA if they could assist me with the new keeper details to see if they might be able to tell me who they got the van from. "No" said Mrs Bowden, that would be a breach of the DPA!!. So I changed tack, and asked her if DVLA would write to the new keeper and ask them if they could supply any useful info, and then pass it on to DVLA who could then pass it on to me. Again this was refused. "Excessive processing of data" cried Mrs Bowden!

 

It seems they make it up as they go along.

 

Lilal, I think the Information Commissioner will be the next step for you. DVLA are a total waste of space. The only thing they are good at is raising revenue for themselves.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

hi they have again sent me another letter saying pay up or we will take you to county courts where costs of £160 will be added! The letterhead was different though.. from a Charles Howard and Partners! However i checked the prev letter from commercial collection services and they both have the same address and telephone number???? Seems like its the same company with 2 diff names??

 

MMM should i hold out or just pay up?

 

What weould everyone do?

 

I mean they have threatened me with county court on 2 occasions now..even if i go to court am i obliged to tell them who the driver was?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well for a start I would write back and ask where they get £160 costs from! A court claim for the amount they clkaim you owe only costs £30, and they can't justifiably claim the rest in "administration fees" as it would take them less than 5 minutes to fill in the claim form online.

 

One of my tactics with DCA's is to keep writing back with similar questions, e.g. "please provide a full breakdown of the costs that you will be claiming and the reason why they will be so high" etc. Leave it at least a week-10 days each time to buy yourself extra time.

 

You will probably get a letter back saying £30 court fees, £130 admin fees etc., again stall them and write back asking for a FULL breakdown of charges - state "as is my legal right".

 

Also point out that you are disputing the amount they are claiming. Another tactic I have found works well is to point out that you will be making a counterclaim including a day's loss of earnings for the date of any court hearing plus legal fees etc. If they are trying to claim from you outside of the law - and they are in my opinion - this alone will usually be enough to ensure that they give up sooner rather than later.

I only mouth my opinion, please look elsewhere for sensible advice! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

hi they have again sent me another letter saying pay up or we will take you to county courts where costs of £160 will be added! The letterhead was different though.. from a Charles Howard and Partners! However i checked the prev letter from commercial collection services and they both have the same address and telephone number???? Seems like its the same company with 2 diff names??

 

MMM should i hold out or just pay up?

 

What weould everyone do?

 

I mean they have threatened me with county court on 2 occasions now..even if i go to court am i obliged to tell them who the driver was?

 

I sure as hell wouldn't pay them a penny until they can show you that the debt is legally enforcible. I mean properly show you not try to fob you off with waffle.

 

There is no requirement at all to tell them who the driver was and unless they can prove who he or she was then their claim cannot succeed, even if the charge was enforcible, as they are unable to say who the contract was made with.

 

As has been pointed out £160 Court fees is outrageous and extortunate.

 

If you feel that you have gone as far as you can and you are just going over the same ground time and again with them then, personally, I'd tell them flat that you are simply not paying under any circumstances (unless they can show that the charge is enforcible) and you want them to stop all further demand as you will only respond to Court papers. Tell them that you dispute the whole amount and that any communication other than Court papers will be considered harassement and reported to the police. This is a perfectly reasonable course of action on your part as you have a right to either a fair hearing or a cessation of their constant demands for payment. Also, point out that you will counter claim and you will bring their behaviour to the attention of the Court.

 

P.

Northern Rock; S.A.R sent 11/8/06 - Delivered. Recieved details of 6 yrs charges on 8th. Wrote back asking whether or not they hold information going back further than that.

MBNA; S.A.R sent 11/8/06 - Delivered 14/8/06

Barclays; S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request sent 11/8/06 - Del 14/8/06

Diners Club; S.A.R sent 11/8/06 - Delivered 14/8/06. Recieved form to fill and return with fee on 17/8/06. Sent form back, delivered 4/9/06.

Intelligent Finance; Prelim letter emailed 16/08/06, claiming £318. Email recieved from "Anne-Marie" 17/8/06 saying my email has been passed to Customer Relations dept. Fob-off letter received 23/8/06, letter sent in return same day - Delivered 24/8/6 Recieved letter offer 25% settelement - refused - LBA sent. MCOL on 10th revcieved notification that they intend to defend on 13th. 06/9/2006 WON!!!!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

... even if i go to court am i obliged to tell them who the driver was?

 

IANAL, I don't think so. I don't think you are under any obligation to appear as a witness.

 

As I recall, they make a series of claims of fact, each of which you can either admit, not admit, or deny.

 

They will have to make some claim of who the driver was, and you will simply not admit it ... that is, you're not denying it, but you require them to prove it (that is, provide evidence.)

 

Unless they can produce evidence, you will request the case be thrown out, on the grounds they have not stated any evidence that any particular person is liable for the charge.

 

If the judge does not throw out the case, then you will have to go to court. Again, after they make their case, you can ask it be dismissed on the grounds they have not shown any evidence that you were driving the car. (Assuming, that is, they do not present CCTV footage showing it was you driving the car ... )

 

Tim

Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeeze, we're losing the plot here folks!

 

This is a private firm trying to obtain money by deception by pretending thay can enforce police/council parking rules to con you into paying. This has reached the point where I would be seriously consider approaching the police or a lawyer to have them arrested and prosecuted for this, with a claim for damages for harrassment!

 

This will NEVER go to court because to do that they would have to expose their [problem] to the authorities! At this stage I would definately advise them that you will be seeking legal advice with a view to prosecuting them on the above basis.

 

Go on the offensive and see how quickly they back down!

I only mouth my opinion, please look elsewhere for sensible advice! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sound advice to go on the offensive.In the unlikely event of this going to court it would pay to show that you have been reasonable at all times.I would suggest sending them the following letter

 

Dear [problematic]

Thankyou for your invoice number ...for excess parking at.......As the registered keeper I would need you to supply evidence that will help me identify the driver at the time you issued your invoice.Please send either the name of the driver (if known) or photographic/video evidence to enable me to pass your communication to the appropriate person.If you are unable to do this, then I regret I can not help you further, and will not enter into any more correspondence on this matter.

 

Yours xxxx

 

They will probably ignore this letter and escalate their demands, in which case just attach a copy of the above letter to each piece of correspondence they send you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Popsy DO NOT send the suggested letter.

 

If you are 'not' the driver there is no contract & you owe nothing. Write & ask them in simple terms to identify the driver & nothing more.

 

If they are unable to do so then tell them you will not pay as there was no contract & should they take court action as they threaten you will counter claim for stress & report them for harrasment whilst bringing to the courts attention their abuse of the system by instigating claims they must know to be unlawful & if they don't they do now cos you've told em!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Agreed, if they had the answers theywouldn't be asking you for the information!

 

You have no legal obligation to provide them with any information and they have no legal right to anything. They are on a loser here!

I only mouth my opinion, please look elsewhere for sensible advice! :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...