Lowell/carter and OH's HBOS Card & OD Debts

[Munirs]

Hi ,

 

my wife had an old Halifax account that she hasn't used in over 5 years (last used around Feb 2008) and

she accrued a debt of over £1400 on the credit card + £500 on overdraft.

 

The original debts were well below these figures but added charges

+ accrued interest on top, makes these figures as things stand.

 

 

We then left for Australia as part of my work, and only recently been back.

 

Fast forward now,

and the greed machine have been grinding away hard,

the latest company to have taken over is Bryan Carter LLP (no less !).

 

This outfit now sent a letter three weeks ago to my wife threatening court action and CCJs.

 

After reading few useful (always!) articles here,

I decided to CCA Bryan Carter (+ £1 as per law) and I was about to SAR Halifax.

 

To my surprise, Bryan Carter sent back a reply within 2 days, and they say:

 

"We thank you for your recent letter the contents of which we note.

If you require documentation under Consumer Credit Act 1974,

you may request this directly from our client with the appropriate fee".

In the meantime, please contact us with your payment proposals".

 

How can they chase this debt then if they cannot or do not hold any valid, relevant and original agreement?

 

What is the course of action in this case?

 

Thanks for your help and for reading this.

[Guest]

has it been sold on? if not, they should've passed the cca request on but who did you make the payment out to? as they won't deal then they should return the 1£. ensure that they do and it is not used for any other purpose.

do the cca request re the cred card to the current owner, halifax?

there is also a request type letter re an o/d around.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Ford

[Annie71]

Hi

The response fron bryan carter exactly matches the oft guidelines on s77-79 requests.

 

 

In it they say if a dca is not the creditor they should either pass it on to the creditor

OR reply with details of who to send it to.

 

 

They must not however be deceptive and try to confuse the debtor.

 

I have seen a letter about overdrafts but not sure where it is.

[Guest]

hello

yes, they usually should pass it on if just acting so long as the payment has been made out to the owner/their client. and if not, they should return the request as you say, with the payment.

yes, i saw a letter but can't remember where atm. i think andyorch has drafted one?

Edited November 30, 2013 by Ford

[dx100uk]

you should of let sleeping dogs lie

 

 

get an sar off to haliprats ASAP.

 

 

if they've sold the debts to lowells [9/10 its them as they own carter now]

 

 

you're in for a bumpy ride proving she don't owe on the OD.

 

 

dx

[fletch70]

Here is a letter that I have used successfully against Halifax and their various goons about an OD

Dear Sirs,​

Ref: XXXXXXXX​

Under the provisions of The Consumer Credit (EU Directive) Regulations 2010 and also c.39 (s.74 (A&B) (VA)) CCA(1974) I wish to formally request a copy of the original overdraft agreement and relevant paperwork that you should be sending me annually, for the above numbered bank account with [enter bank name here].​

As I held what can only be regarded as an 'Agreed Overdraft', which has now reverted to an 'Unauthorised Overdraft' then the lending becomes regulated in line with c.39 Part VA (s.74) (s.1(b)) CCA1974 meaning the normal rules and CCA(1974) protection applies to this account.

You should be sending an annual reminder to me regards the overdraft, as well as copies of the original agreement made and an annual renewal form that contains the relevant prescribed terms that are clearly outlined in s.74(A)2(a,b,c,d,e). I highlight this provision for your perusal;​

s.74A(2)*The current account agreement must include the following information at the time it is made:

​(a) the rate of interest charged on the amount by which an account-holder overdraws on the current account or exceeds the pre-arranged overdraft limit,*

(b) any conditions applicable to that rate,*

© any reference rate on which that rate is based,*

(d) information on any changes to the rate of interest (including the periods that the rate applies and any conditions or procedure applicable to changing that rate), and*

(e) any other charges payable by the debtor under the agreement (and the conditions under which those charges may be varied).​

You should also be paying attention to s.74(B)(2) which reads, I quote;​

s.74B(2)*The matters referred to in subsection (1) are:

(a) the fact that the current account is overdrawn or the overdraft limit has been exceeded,*

(b) the amount of that overdraft or excess,*

© the rate of interest charged on it, and*

(d) any other charges payable by the debtor in relation to it (including any penalties and any interest on those charges).​

Therefore in line with the above, please could you send me what you should have been doing annually, to allow me to take whatever action I deem appropriate.

I trust that I have set out the position clearly and I await your response with the requested information.

​Yours faithfully,

​

Sign using a computer font

 

They may well come back with something along the lines of not covered by CCA blah blah and then I sent them this

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Ac: xxxxxxx Ref xxxxxxx

I refer to previous correspondence and in particular my request for information under the provisions of The Consumer Credit (EU Directive) Regulations 2010; and also c.39 (s.74 (A&B) (VA)) CCA(1974).

 

I formally requested a copy of the required documents that should have been sent to me annually by Halifax (HBOS) and am to date still awaiting such documents.

 

Until such time as I am in receipt of the requested information, this account cannot be enforced and remains in an unenforceable position because the basic underlying principles of legislation are being ignored. I attach a copy of my original request again, and hope that this time you'll take me more seriously and actually send out historical data as required within the legislative statute that is the Consumer Credit Act (1974).

 

I look forward to your response within the next 28 days with the requested information.

 

Yours faithfully,

[Munirs]

Hi All

 

I have recently received a letter from Bryan Carter Solicitors LLP,

with ref to their client: Lowell Financial Limited, and an outstanding balance of 1,416.24.

 

This is in response to my SAR to them about the credit card my wife had with Halifax in 2008.

 

She made payments and because we move to Australia that year, found it difficult to get payments out to them.

She then completely forgot about it.

 

The letter says "please find enclosed copy of statements of account and

agreement pursuant to your request for documents under section 78 as requested from our client"

 

It also says "It is our client's position that the outstanding balance remains lawfully due"

 

And it goes on to say

" We should be grateful if you contact us by 18th July with your payment proposals"

and ends with " should we not hear from you by this date, collection activity may resume"

 

Ok, now looking at the statements, the last payment made was 24/11/2008.

 

Therefore this is getting close to being barred. Just few months from it.

 

We don't really want to pay them as there are so many charges on there including

repayment cover, late fees, overlimit fee, letter fee etc.

 

What is the next step to do please.

 

Please help.

[ims21]

Two threads merged and now in Debt Collection Forum.

 

Please keep to this one thread for this issue.

[Munirs]

Hi thanks for merging the threads. Almost forgot that I did that last thread silly me...

[citizenB]

Did you ever receive a copy of the agreement ?

 

If there are penalty/default charges, then these can be reclaimed. Do you know if there was any PPI on the account ?

 

This seems to be an extremely strange response to a Subject Access Request - which should have been sent to the Original creditor . Do you mean it was a response to your CCA request ?

 

Also, do you know for sure if the payments made in November 2008 were actually made by you, or are these the fees for the CCA/SAR request ?

[Munirs]

Just to clarify something, which I mentioned in my original post but actually does not relate at all here, which is that no overdraft is mentioned at all, and my wife can't recall for sure if she had an OD either...The debt is solely for the cc.

 

I am wondering what is this repayment cover charge on there? My wife can't recall if she signed anything to do insurance etc...

[Munirs]

Hi citizenb

 

Answers to your questions:

 

Do you mean it was a response to your CCA request?

==> Sorry, I think you're right.

 

Also, do you know for sure if the payments made in November 2008 were actually made by you, or are these the fees for the CCA/SAR request ?

===> The entry shows Payment rece'd - thank you -36.00

My wife can't recall this but the date is just before we left for Australia so looks

 

 

Did you ever receive a copy of the agreement

==> I have now been forwarded by Bryan Carter, but the CCA was sent to Lowell who returned my 1GBP originally.

However, the agreement has no signature on it of anyone - including my wife's!

It is a plain. Just says "Credit agreement regulated by CC ACT 1974@ and scribbled above this in pencil some numbers and the word "freds"

 

The agreement does say the parties are Halifax plc and Mrs xxx my wife's name and address. But no date or signature.

 

 

 

If there are penalty/default charges, then these can be reclaimed.

==> Yes, late fees, repayment cover, interest, overlimit, letter fee

 

Do you know if there was any PPI on the account ?

==> not for sure, but my wife can't recall this...In my view, most likely though

 

Thanks!

[dx100uk]

sounds like the CCA is not signed and a recon?

 

yes repayment cover is PPI

 

time for some reclaiming

 

dx

[dx100uk]

can you scan up the CCA?

 

**you can post up images/letters by this method immediately..you don't need 10 posts**

.

set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300DPI [150 will do]

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture[jpg] file

don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

'

BUT......

ENSURE: remove all pers info inc. barcodes etc

but leave all monetary figures and dates.

.

************************* ************************* *******

{DO NOT USE A BIRO OR PEN OR USE SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS]

************************* ************************* ***********

.

DO IT IN MSPAINT.EXE or any photo editing program

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites ...

http://freejpgtopdf.com/

http://www.convert-jpg-to-pdf.net/

..

if you have multiple scans/pics

put them in a word doc FIRST and convert that to PDF

or http://www.freepdfconvert.com/

or

use www.pdfmerge.com

 

convert existing PC files to PDF [office has an installable print to PDF option]

..

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf if

you have many images too rather than many single pdfs

.

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

or use Primo PDF.

.

try and logically name your file so people know what it is.

though DONT USE BANK NAMES or CAG in the title

i'e Default notice DD-mm-yyyy

.

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

...

YOU DONT have to put a link to the attachment in the msg box..just upload it ..job done

you can click on your links to check them too!

.

dx

[Munirs]

Hi Dx

 

Great to hear from you. You helped me so much in my other struggles.You're awesome mate!

 

By the way, when you say scan CCA, this is the credit card agreement right? There is 17 pages, inc 1 blank page.

 

Nowhere is there a box for signature, other than where it says I wish to purchase credit card repayment cover, I wish to purchase card care which are both UNTICKED, and underneath it says You Signature, which is blank!

 

Sorry if I misundestood. Thanks

[dx100uk]

when was this taken out?

 

yes scan them up

[Munirs]

when was this taken out?

==================

 

She got that credit card sometimes in 2004, going by the statement entry. Unfortunately, we couldn't take all the docs with us to Australia and thus don't have the original agreement.

The statements do show regular repayments - on time too.

 

Will try now to scan them up. Cheers

[dx100uk]

then they'll need a signed CCA to enforce it.

 

dx

[Munirs]

Hi Dx

 

Attached the pdf. Thanks

[Munirs]

then they'll need a signed CCA to enforce it.

============================

 

Wife's signature is not easily forgeable!

Unlike mine

 

So if I wanted to go after them for PPI, I should SAR Halifax?

[dx100uk]

yep

 

dx

[The GodMother]

Hi Dx

 

Great to hear from you. You helped me so much in my other struggles.You're awesome mate!

 

By the way, when you say scan CCA, this is the credit card agreement right? There is 17 pages, inc 1 blank page.

 

Nowhere is there a box for signature, other than where it says I wish to purchase credit card repayment cover, I wish to purchase card care which are both UNTICKED, and underneath it says You Signature, which is blank!

 

Sorry if I misundestood. Thanks

 

Wow l have seen it all now a 17 page CCA. Must have made sure nothing was left out.

[The GodMother]

Well looking at it this must be a early 2004 card as the fees got changed in 2004 to £12.00 and these say £25.00.

 

Clause 7 is illegal as if you die unless you have assets they cant ask for payment

 

This looks to be 2 sets of ts and cs. the original set when card sent out, if they sent them, then a updated set when the £12 charges came into effect. As you are no doubt aware the no signatures mean they cant enforce in courts but this does not stop them trying now.