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Tribunal 'partial victory' placed in WRAG.


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what is still an unknown as well if someone has a 18 month prognosis, are they treated the same as 12 month prognosis after 6 months or do they get the waiver for the entire 18 months? if the latter then those with 12 month prognosis would be right to feel hard done by.

 

I am on contribution based so that was probably a big factor I didnt get reffered.

 

Lilly it would be really great if you could say what your work programe has been like since you got moved to it, to help others what to prepare for.

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what is still an unknown as well if someone has a 18 month prognosis, are they treated the same as 12 month prognosis after 6 months or do they get the waiver for the entire 18 months? if the latter then those with 12 month prognosis would be right to feel hard done by.

 

I am on contribution based so that was probably a big factor I didnt get reffered.

 

Lilly it would be really great if you could say what your work programe has been like since you got moved to it, to help others what to prepare for.

18-24 months get the waiver for the full prognosis time, however I don't expect that particular concession to last much longer. December seems to be the month of change for the DWP, so I expect a raft of new conditionality to be rolled out within a week or so.

The agenda is to get anyone not in support group signing on for JSA, (in the case of mandatory revision before appeal) and force the rest onto the Work Programme. Either way, it's a no win for ESA claimants.

 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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18-24 months get the waiver for the full prognosis time, however I don't expect that particular concession to last much longer. December seems to be the month of change for the DWP, so I expect a raft of new conditionality to be rolled out within a week or so.

The agenda is to get anyone not in support group signing on for JSA, (in the case of mandatory revision before appeal) and force the rest onto the Work Programme. Either way, it's a no win for ESA claimants.

 

Do you think the scraping of WRAG will come into force soon.

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Do you think the scraping of WRAG will come into force soon.

IDS would dearly love to do it and if the government can get away with it they no doubt will. However it's just hot air at the moment and I cant see anything moving on this for a good while yet.

 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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what is still an unknown as well if someone has a 18 month prognosis, are they treated the same as 12 month prognosis after 6 months or do they get the waiver for the entire 18 months? if the latter then those with 12 month prognosis would be right to feel hard done by.

 

I am on contribution based so that was probably a big factor I didnt get reffered.

 

Lilly it would be really great if you could say what your work programe has been like since you got moved to it, to help others what to prepare for.

 

Basically all I can say about the work programme so far, is that they take NO notice of you being ill.

As far as they are concerned - you are not ill.

I have NO trust in my WP at all.

As I am less than 6 weeks into the programme, I see a lot of stress and added mental suffering over the next 2 years.

They have no idea how to treat people who suffer from MH problems.

I have already been told that some people on JSA need a kick up the backside

People on ESA have no one pushing them to find work, so they lack motivation.

Think that say's it all really.

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Basically all I can say about the work programme so far, is that they take NO notice of you being ill.

As far as they are concerned - you are not ill.

I have NO trust in my WP at all.

As I am less than 6 weeks into the programme, I see a lot of stress and added mental suffering over the next 2 years.

They have no idea how to treat people who suffer from MH problems.

I have already been told that some people on JSA need a kick up the backside

People on ESA have no one pushing them to find work, so they lack motivation.

Think that say's it all really.

 

Yep, that's the mantra. The WP providers are still blinkered by pound note signs at the moment, once the realisation that getting ESA claimants into work ain't gonna be a walk in the park, the novelty will wear off and I reckon most will get parked for the duration with the occasional dust down for a money spinning CV course or two, then it's back in the broom cupboard.

 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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Bump for me, to view.....when 'm sober!!

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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18-24 months get the waiver for the full prognosis time, however I don't expect that particular concession to last much longer. December seems to be the month of change for the DWP, so I expect a raft of new conditionality to be rolled out within a week or so.

The agenda is to get anyone not in support group signing on for JSA, (in the case of mandatory revision before appeal) and force the rest onto the Work Programme. Either way, it's a no win for ESA claimants.

 

Is this agenda from within the DWP and pushed onto politicans or you think its from outside of the DWP been pushed onto it? (since the DWP's agends didnt really change between labour and tories except under the current government they seme to have ramped up the speed they dismantling the safety net).

 

I had a conversation with my dad yesterday, normally when I mention politics he changes the subject or something else to avoid it as he is typically a hardline tory so to avoid arguing, but his comment was he is sick to death of cameron and co, his words not mine. "All they b***** interested in is welfare cuts when its doing nothing for this country. They have no other ideas" Make no mistake my dad loved thatcher, but even he sees these guys are taking it to another level.

 

Also my younger sister has already told me she is voting labour due to the policy on utility bills, according to her lots of her work colleagues are thinking on the same lines, so I dont think the tories even have that much support from the people who they think they winning over. But are cameron and IDS going to go all out and push really hard for all these changes before the election knowing a new government will have a hell of a job to change things back, as after all it has taken decades to get these safety nets in place, and I think unum or whatever they are called have their dirty paws on all the major parties.

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Voting simply encourages them, besides there is no difference between any of them, they are all the same, they all collude and corroborate with each other.

There is no longer any need for a government, they no longer work to serve us, they only wish to feather their own nest and work for their own benefit.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Thank you for everyone who has contributed/advised, and simply divulged their knowledge.

 

Today I went to my local Veterans Outreach service, a monthly drop in centre for veterans to 'drop in' for advice and guidance.

 

Spoke to a rep from the RBL who put it all into language I could understand, not laymans terms, but baby speak!

 

So it turns out, that even though I won my appeal, and they have given me 12 months before I am reassessed, what they deliberately WON'T tell you is that, the reassessment starts from the date of your ORIGINAL assessment, so although the tribunal appears to be friendly and impartial, they forget to inform you of the truth and actual fact.

 

So, whilst I am about to appeal, yet again! their decision to push me in WRAG rather than the support group, it would seem that, in the time I demand a 'statement of reasons' I may also be in receipt of another flawed corrupt ESA85 form to fill in and send off, to await yet another criminal interrogation by fake doctors and nurses for a disability they have no expertise in!

 

Now I am also going to be looking at suing the DWP for the costs incurred during this farce, not only have I been indebted as a direct result of their actions, my Mother has also been financially disadvantaged by them also, by having to put her own money into my bank account on a weekly basis since they F'd up.

 

I am ready to go now, I've not calmed down since last December when the fake Dr ticked boxes on his speak & spell, if they seriously believe they are going to continue with this, then they, and most certainly he, have a very big surprise coming to them.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Voting simply encourages them, besides there is no difference between any of them, they are all the same, they all collude and corroborate with each other.

There is no longer any need for a government, they no longer work to serve us, they only wish to feather their own nest and work for their own benefit.

 

Agree, the only thing to look at is our own personal circumstances, and decide what party might benefit us.

But as they all shoot from the same gun, then there is not much difference.

 

They all spin promises in the run up to an election, then when they are in power out they all go with the bath water.

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So it turns out, that even though I won my appeal, and they have given me 12 months before I am reassessed, what they deliberately WON'T tell you is that, the reassessment starts from the date of your ORIGINAL assessment, so although the tribunal appears to be friendly and impartial, they forget to inform you of the truth and actual fact.

 

My original assessment was on 21/01/12 I won at appeal on 02/08/12 and was given 24 months before review, the DWP and JCP have both confirmed that my next review will be 01/08/14. So in my case the reassessment clock starts from the date of the appeal win.

Either I'm lucky or you have been given the wrong info.

 

The tribunal service have no jurisdiction over reassessment frequency, they can only make recommendations to the DWP who routinely ignore those recommendations.

 

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

 

Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.

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My original assessment was on 21/01/12 I won at appeal on 02/08/12 and was given 24 months before review, the DWP and JCP have both confirmed that my next review will be 01/08/14. So in my case the reassessment clock starts from the date of the appeal win.

 

Ah I see, maybe I have been given the wrong advice?

I guess I will just have to wait and see, if nothing else at least it wont come as a shock if another interrogation application drops on my doormat.

I was also told that ATOSsers had lost the contract to do the interrogations, when their current contract runs out?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Agree, the only thing to look at is our own personal circumstances, and decide what party might benefit us.

But as they all shoot from the same gun, then there is not much difference.

 

They all spin promises in the run up to an election, then when they are in power out they all go with the bath water.

 

There is differences but they do collude on various things, I think social security is one of those things.

 

Notice how every change to the social security system is designed to affect a certian generation, and the older generation gets protected and MP spin it off as "fair"

 

eg. raising the pension age to 70 for those born after a certian date is seen as fairer than cutting a % of existing and new pensions whilst keeping the same pension age.

raising the qualifier for full support to 25 than later to 35 so that generation is "used to" reduced help, in approx 10 years I have no doubt single room rate will apply to those under 45 to keep up with the generation change.

job centre staff giving older people an easier time of it. am I talking rubbish? why is the work programme dominated by young people.

council tax changes protecting pensioners.

 

the baby boomers had free university, factory work, full time employment vs temporary agency work, proper sickness benefits, dole without forced slave labour, better housing support, retire at 65, high wage inflation, cheaper houses, final salary pensions and more.

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  • 1 month later...

Well that's it!

Come next month, the 7th Feb, my ESA contribution based stops, and I will be living, er surviving off my Army pension.

In a way I'm pretty pleased not to have to jump through anymore hoops and be accused of Benoit fraud on an annual basis by the DWP, but on the other hand, I am stewing slightly that those who have put into the pot are forced to live in poverty with a little help here and there by charities.

 

This government sucks.

Edited by honeybee13

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Hi Bazooka Boo

 

Hope you don't mind me asking but is your Army Pension - an Attributable Pension by any chance?

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No sorry, my pension is a SIP, not a SAP, service invaliding pension as opposed to service attributable, although that is a bone of contention, and a very long story.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Hi Bazooka Boo

 

I know this mentions Attributable and it is a Pain if you just have SIP as for SIP to be classed as Attributable the percentage has to be 20% or more:

 

Armed Forces Attributable Benefits are paid where the injury, illness or death was caused by service before 6th April 2005. The benefits are paid under the attributable rules of the AFPS 1975 and Attributable benefits scheme order 2010. Full details of the legislation specific to each arm of service may be found at the link below:

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/armed-forces-pension-scheme-1975-regulations

 

When a War Disablement Pension has been awarded under the Naval Military and Air Forces etc (Disablement or Death) Service Pension Order 2006 at the percentage rate of 20% or more, for the same illness/condition which the SIP from AFPS is payable, then the SIP changes to an attributable benefit which is then defined as a wounds pension.

 

A War Disablement Pension as defined in Section 150 of the Social Security contributions and benefits Act 1992 includes any retirement pay or pensions to which any of the paragraphs (a) to (f) of section 641 (1) Wounds and Disability Pensions of the income tax (Earning and Pensions) Act 2003 apply. All of these payments are tax free and include a wounds pension, retired pay of a disabled officer and a disability pension granted to a member of the armed forces on account of medical unfitness attributable to or aggravated by military service.

 

What this essentially means is that the armed forces pension is aligned with the war pension because a war disablement pension is paid for the same condition that a service invaliding pension is paid for.

 

A seperate stand-alone scheme the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme was introduced for those whose injury or illness was caused by service on or after 6th April 2005. The attributable benefit is paid from the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme (AFCS). Although Tax exemption may be granted to the occupational pensions benefits under section 641 of the income tax (Earnings and Pension) Act 2003, the occupational pension from the Armed Forces Pension Scheme becomes aligned with the AFCS award only when a Guaranteed Income Payment has been granted from the AFCS for the same condition that resulted in medical discharge from active service.

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I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

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Thanks stu, I will give this a damn good read! Thank you! :thumb:

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, I have sent off a letter requesting a statement of reasons and await the response.

In the meantime, my benefits stopped yesterday, and today saw me drop in to my LA to see about claiming HB, which has left me fuming to be honest.

 

It appears that as I owe them a monkey and a half, this will be deducted from any entitlement I get.

It appears that even though I wasn't getting my full entitlement of ESA because they cured my brain damage, that the HB entitlement I was getting, has now got to be repaid because my ESA was backdated?

 

Spitting feathers to put it mildly.....so, I have just completed a 'maladministration' complaint letter which will go off in the post tomorrow, lets see just how good their financial maladministration compensation is, as I am also going to be adding the money my mother put into my account every week just to keep me afloat...

 

I will start a new thread for this one I think, as it will undoubtedly be a long one!

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Sorry, my apologies, and thank you all for your time and responses.

 

My prognosis, is a mere 12 (twelve) months......whilst I look and sound perfectly normal, whatever 'normal' means, I am not articulate enough to put into words how my brain injury affects me....

 

I am unsure as to whether I should appeal, accept their decision, or just drop out of society all together, and by that I mean, claim nothing, therefore pay nothing, just live off my Army disability pension, pay my rent, and electric and ignore everything else?

 

I actually cannot believe I served Queen & Country for 18 years,

 

Contact a group called Headway who help rehabilitation for people with acquired brain injuries. They do not do benefit advice though.

 

Note that you will be seen by a ATOS doctor and it is the DWP that will make the decision.

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Cheers Perseus, I'm a service user mentor for my local Headway group. :thumb:

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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  • 6 months later...

Thought I would update the current progress on this, or should I say 'lack of progress'.

 

TRBL have now taken this on for me, and have filled out the next lethargic step in getting this whole corrupt decision overturned entirely.

 

The error of law argument was met by the FTT not giving me a verbal fearing, and simply making the decision (to put me in WRAG) simply on paper.

 

In line with this, I have made a formal complaint to the ICE for the maladministration of my case, which the DWP have completely disregarded and totally refute,

only for the ICE to come back to me saying that the DWP haven't given me a final answer yet, although I fail to see how three letters telling me that they do not believe this was malad, but legislation so it does not fit their criteria for their complaints process???

 

I have also made a formal complaint against them for discrimination, again, they have failed to acknowledge this?

 

How can such a dept be so incompetent?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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