Tribunal 'partial victory' placed in WRAG.

[RaeUK]

You've probably thought of this already, so apols, but have you contacted the British Legion or SSAFA?

[Bazooka Boo]

Yes Thank you Rae, I had the RBL there with me, but I am not kidding when we were literally taken in sat down, told I had won, then sent out, the poor sod had come all the way down from London, his day started at 0530!

Besides, it took me another five hours to actually realise what it meant, to be honest, I still don't really know what it all means now, but I am tired with it all now, I have a veterans outreach centre I can go to next week to get someone to explain it to me, in language I understand...

[Nystagmite]

You can appeal; but it would be to the upper tier and you'd probably need someone experienced with doing that. If your condition has worsened your original assessment, you can tell DWP that you wish to have your case looked at on the basis of a change in circumstances.

[Lilly_Monroe]

You can appeal; but it would be to the upper tier and you'd probably need someone experienced with doing that. If your condition has worsened your original assessment, you can tell DWP that you wish to have your case looked at on the basis of a change in circumstances.

 

I am in the process of doing that - believe it could take some time (or so I was told).

[Bazooka Boo]

Thank you!

[**Margaret**]

:Bazooka Boo:

Yes, the hoops depend on the recommended interval before reassessment. Is the twelve months from Tatos, or from a specific date on your tribunal decision notice? The hoops also depend on whether your award's based on national insurance contributions or income related. There's no longer a limit to the number of work focused interviews, but recipients of a contributions flavoured award, or credits only, can't be mandated to the work programme.

 

Margaret.

[worried33]

Once about every 10 weeks was what I had.

No pressure was applied - they were very helpful all in all.

The problems start once you leave the JC and move over onto the work programme.

 

Had I have known then what I know now, about the work programme I would have appealed my WRAG placement.

 

What happened to you on the work programmed whilst on WRAG?

 

There isnt too many reports from people who have been on it whilst on ESA.

 

I had one WFI, and then got moved to the SG, after my single WFI I was told tho I was been moved to phone interviews so I think wasnt going to be put on the WP.

[Bazooka Boo]

What is WFI please?

 

And there is absolutely no chance of me doing any phone interviews!

[worried33]

work focused interview. Although I am not sure if they still called that, basically one of the interviews have when in WRAG group.

[Bazooka Boo]

Excellent cheers!

I have no idea when I will be summonsed for their Work Focused interrogation, but I'm looking forward to dealings with them,

hope they're a fan of you tube!

[Lilly_Monroe]

What happened to you on the work programmed whilst on WRAG?

 

There isnt too many reports from people who have been on it whilst on ESA.

 

I had one WFI, and then got moved to the SG, after my single WFI I was told tho I was been moved to phone interviews so I think wasnt going to be put on the WP.

 

 

With my JC adviser nothing really happened.

Each time I saw her she asked me what if anything had happened in respect of my health,change of medication etc, which she entered into the computer.

Had I had any thoughts of doing volunteer work, was I able to do my craft work, all put into the comp, but she never ever forced me to do anything.

She printed off things for me to look at - asked me at the next meeting how I had got on with it.

But she always made it clear she was not there to force me against my will.

I think I was very lucky all in all with my adviser.

 

But I also did my bit, I was never late, never missed an appointment, always polite and respectful, because there was nothing to be disrespectful over.

 

When she finally signed me off from her and handed me over to the work programme people, I truly felt she was not happy in doing so.

She made a point about them not forcing me to anything that was detrimental to my well being (pity they do not see it like that).

She also said if at the end of the two years with them - you are still not working, then you will come back to us.

All in all just friendly professional meetings with a caring attitude (again something the WP seem to not understand).

 

She even told me she new my CPN nurse, and asked me to say 'hello' to her, for her.

[Bazooka Boo]

I'm very confused.

So I have been put in the WRAG group, then am automatically pushed into another group after a set period of time, in order to do work??

 

This is what I am ultimately looking to be answered, as I have absolutely no idea what it all really means.

[antone]

I'm very confused.

So I have been put in the WRAG group, then am automatically pushed into another group after a set period of time, in order to do work??

 

This is what I am ultimately looking to be answered, as I have absolutely no idea what it all really means.

 

No. As long as you remain in the ESA WRAG you can't be forced to work or apply for jobs. If memory serves, a 12 month prognosis means you can't be forced to participate in the Work Programme, but I won't swear to that.

[osdset]

No. As long as you remain in the ESA WRAG you can't be forced to work or apply for jobs. If memory serves, a 12 month prognosis means you can't be forced to participate in the Work Programme, but I won't swear to that.

 

The rules changed December 2012, the only ESA claimants that can opt out from the Work Programme are:

 

ESA (IR) WRAG with either 18-24 month prognosis, ESA © WRAG (these two groups are voluntary at the point of referral to the WP, but become mandatory if the claimant volunteers)

 

 

The next section of groups are wholly voluntary.

 

ESA (IR) or © support group

ESA WRAG (lone parent with a youngest child under five or carers)

ESA credits only

Pension Credit claimants (without a health condition)

IB/SDA claimants (ESF funded England only)

IS claimants (ESF funded England only)

 

A 12 month prognosis will result in a mandatory referral to the Work Programme unfortunately.

[antone]

The rules changed December 2012, the only ESA claimants that can opt out from the Work Programme are:

 

ESA (IR) WRAG with either 18-24 month prognosis, ESA © WRAG (these two groups are voluntary at the point of referral to the WP, but become mandatory if the claimant volunteers)

 

 

The next section of groups are wholly voluntary.

 

ESA (IR) or © support group

ESA WRAG (lone parent with a youngest child under five or carers)

ESA credits only

Pension Credit claimants (without a health condition)

IB/SDA claimants (ESF funded England only)

IS claimants (ESF funded England only)

 

A 12 month prognosis will result in a mandatory referral to the Work Programme unfortunately.

 

Thanks for the correction. Nothing ever gets better, does it?

[osdset]

Thanks for the correction. Nothing ever gets better, does it?

No it does not. I have posted today on another thread that I've received a 'good cause' letter from JCP because Seetec have raised a sanction doubt regarding me not attending a 'mandatory' initial WP appointment. Seetec know I have a 24 month prognosis and I have gone to great pains to outline this to them on several occasions along with a reminder that I did not volunteer for the WP.

JCP are frankly useless as well, both the ESA advisor and the advisor that deals with the WP for both JSA and ESA claimants have promised to sort this situation out twice now, without avail.

 

I'm now looking at Seetec sending regular appointment letters that I won't attend, only for them to raise a sanction doubt each time, I'm banging my head against a brick wall here.

[Lilly_Monroe]

No it does not. I have posted today on another thread that I've received a 'good cause' letter from JCP because Seetec have raised a sanction doubt regarding me not attending a 'mandatory' initial WP appointment. Seetec know I have a 24 month prognosis and I have gone to great pains to outline this to them on several occasions along with a reminder that I did not volunteer for the WP.

JCP are frankly useless as well, both the ESA advisor and the advisor that deals with the WP for both JSA and ESA claimants have promised to sort this situation out twice now, without avail.

 

I'm now looking at Seetec sending regular appointment letters that I won't attend, only for them to raise a sanction doubt each time, I'm banging my head against a brick wall here.

 

I am not with Seetec and only have a 12 month placement in WRAG so I know I have to attend but all of these WP believe they make the rules.

 

I had a badly worded letter from them which I rang the DWP to get some clarification on.

The WP had made it read as if they were responsible for me still being allowed to claim ESA under the WRAG stipulations.

They had even highlighted that part of the letter - scare tactics maybe.

 

Bottom line (as I already knew) no they are not - they can propose sanctions - but not as they were trying to make out.

I have been with my WP 6 weeks and have a list of complaints already.

It worrying, and it is banging head against a brick wall.

If we continue to make waves, they do have the authority to make life really painful for us.

[osdset]

If we continue to make waves, they do have the authority to make life really painful for us.

And vice versa, I'm not about to fall over faced with Seetec's shenanigans. They are being vindictive in my case because I'm escalating a serious complaint against the manager via my MP and not using their own complaints procedure which I know will go nowhere. The manager got one of his subordinates to phone me and ask if I would attend their offices for a face-to-face apology which I declined.

I've also sent off a subject access request to the DWP for all clerical and digital records pertaining to my ESA case file, I believe Seetec were aware of my voluntary status from the initial introductory interview because they have access to JCP's records.

[worried33]

what is still an unknown as well if someone has a 18 month prognosis, are they treated the same as 12 month prognosis after 6 months or do they get the waiver for the entire 18 months? if the latter then those with 12 month prognosis would be right to feel hard done by.

 

I am on contribution based so that was probably a big factor I didnt get reffered.

 

Lilly it would be really great if you could say what your work programe has been like since you got moved to it, to help others what to prepare for.

[osdset]

what is still an unknown as well if someone has a 18 month prognosis, are they treated the same as 12 month prognosis after 6 months or do they get the waiver for the entire 18 months? if the latter then those with 12 month prognosis would be right to feel hard done by.

 

I am on contribution based so that was probably a big factor I didnt get reffered.

 

Lilly it would be really great if you could say what your work programe has been like since you got moved to it, to help others what to prepare for.

18-24 months get the waiver for the full prognosis time, however I don't expect that particular concession to last much longer. December seems to be the month of change for the DWP, so I expect a raft of new conditionality to be rolled out within a week or so.

The agenda is to get anyone not in support group signing on for JSA, (in the case of mandatory revision before appeal) and force the rest onto the Work Programme. Either way, it's a no win for ESA claimants.

[Lilly_Monroe]

18-24 months get the waiver for the full prognosis time, however I don't expect that particular concession to last much longer. December seems to be the month of change for the DWP, so I expect a raft of new conditionality to be rolled out within a week or so.

The agenda is to get anyone not in support group signing on for JSA, (in the case of mandatory revision before appeal) and force the rest onto the Work Programme. Either way, it's a no win for ESA claimants.

 

Do you think the scraping of WRAG will come into force soon.

[osdset]

Do you think the scraping of WRAG will come into force soon.

IDS would dearly love to do it and if the government can get away with it they no doubt will. However it's just hot air at the moment and I cant see anything moving on this for a good while yet.

[Lilly_Monroe]

what is still an unknown as well if someone has a 18 month prognosis, are they treated the same as 12 month prognosis after 6 months or do they get the waiver for the entire 18 months? if the latter then those with 12 month prognosis would be right to feel hard done by.

 

I am on contribution based so that was probably a big factor I didnt get reffered.

 

Lilly it would be really great if you could say what your work programe has been like since you got moved to it, to help others what to prepare for.

 

Basically all I can say about the work programme so far, is that they take NO notice of you being ill.

As far as they are concerned - you are not ill.

I have NO trust in my WP at all.

As I am less than 6 weeks into the programme, I see a lot of stress and added mental suffering over the next 2 years.

They have no idea how to treat people who suffer from MH problems.

I have already been told that some people on JSA need a kick up the backside

People on ESA have no one pushing them to find work, so they lack motivation.

Think that say's it all really.

[osdset]

Basically all I can say about the work programme so far, is that they take NO notice of you being ill.

As far as they are concerned - you are not ill.

I have NO trust in my WP at all.

As I am less than 6 weeks into the programme, I see a lot of stress and added mental suffering over the next 2 years.

They have no idea how to treat people who suffer from MH problems.

I have already been told that some people on JSA need a kick up the backside

People on ESA have no one pushing them to find work, so they lack motivation.

Think that say's it all really.

 

Yep, that's the mantra. The WP providers are still blinkered by pound note signs at the moment, once the realisation that getting ESA claimants into work ain't gonna be a walk in the park, the novelty will wear off and I reckon most will get parked for the duration with the occasional dust down for a money spinning CV course or two, then it's back in the broom cupboard.

[Bazooka Boo]

Bump for me, to view.....when 'm sober!!