A4e

[sunnysue]

I,m currently in the work related activity group of ESA. My job centre advisor has told me I have to go to a "information session" with A4E. Because I have a 24mth prognosis, he says I can't be forced to go with them. But I have to attend the information session and then choose whether I want to go with A4E or stay with the job centre advisor.

I haven't got a clue what would be best, so if anyone has any experience of A4E I would love to hear it please. I have to make it known though that it's not an easy option to stay with my job centre advisor. Every time I see him I get hints of sanctions thrown at me. I dread every meeting I have with him. He doesn't seem to make any allowances for my health problems at all.

Anyone?

[Mr.P]

A4e....

 

They are one of the leading bunch of conniving useless misfits (my opinion) around. I spent some time with this bunch under the previous programme and found they had nothing to offer and had the greatest of difficulty in even the basics of the english language when churning out their documents.

 

If you must go to one of their information(sic) sessions, take a red pen with you and record everything from the moment you enter the building. Treat them the same as any snake oil salesman or con merchant, keep at arms length and never believe a word they say.

 

One final point - Do not sign anything, even if they threaten you with a sanction (they can't sanction you period.!).

Edited November 27, 2013 by Mr.P

[jasta11]

I heartily concur. I've been to A4e before and they were utterly and totally a shambles. It's the place to go if you want to be treated like a child and draw posters with crayons as part of your 'back to work' training (I kid you not!). Also, remember that they're there to make money and that means exploiting their clients as fully as possible - whether it actually benefits you or not. They're a business, first and foremost with a dire record of fraud and data violation convictions in the past. Do some internet research and you'll see.

 

At least with the Jobcentre if you stand up for yourself and show you know the guidance rules and won't hesitate to report advisors then they'll treat you a lot better - but you do need to take a fim, no-nonsense approach from the start, as they'll pick on people they see as meek and unwilling to fight back - many stories on here and in the general press back this up.

 

It would be nice if you didn't have to deal with either party, but I'd say the Jobcentre is the lesser of two evils.

[osdset]

but I'd say the Jobcentre is the lesser of two evils.

Yep, have to agree.

[speedfreek]

I have to make it known though that it's not an easy option to stay with my job centre advisor. Every time I see him I get hints of sanctions thrown at me. I dread every meeting I have with him. He doesn't seem to make any allowances for my health problems at all.

Anyone?

 

What exactly are hint of sanctions?

 

Plus what are you doing at the Job Center?

 

With regards to A4E the initial go for a chat with them is mandatory and therefore sanctionable.

 

Since you are in the 24 month before reassessment group except for turning up at that meeting there is nothing else you can be asked to do that will be sanctionable if you refuse it.

 

Although A4E might/will try and tell you differently they are just lies and empty threats.

 

So go say no thank you and walk away son! Unless you have a mobility issue then however you mobilise away son!

 

Remember a JCP+ WFI sessions are a total of 6 for the life time of your ESA award and then that's it. Where as the Work Program is not just for Christmas it's for 2 years!

[Lilly_Monroe]

How come the work providers make out they wield more power than the JCP+ (do they).

[Nystagmite]

I'm sure they do it to scare you. Don't think they really have more powers. The final decision where someone has a sanction is the decision maker. Both WP and JCP advisers can raise a doubt; but they don't have the final say.

[sunnysue]

I have to go to the jobcentre every month to see my advisor as part of WRAG. Every time I see him he says You know if you don't take certain steps to get into work, your benefit will stop. Every time I get that statement.I have been to about 8 wrag meetings now. I did ask how many I had to attend. His response was For as long as I feel you need to be seen. There is no limit I haven't been able to find anything online I can use to argue that point.

[speedfreek]

How many of these interviews have you actually had?

 

The legislation allows for a maximum 6.

 

Any more and I'd complain.

 

You can be sanctioned for not turning up to these 6 meetings. They're called Work Focused Interviews or WFIs

[sunnysue]

How many of these interviews have you actually had?

 

The legislation allows for a maximum 6.

 

Any more and I'd complain.

 

You can be sanctioned for not turning up to these 6 meetings. They're called Work Focused Interviews or WFIs

 

I've had about 8 interviews with the advisor I have now. And two with other advisors. So, about 10 in all. I wish I could find something in writing to show I should only be going to 6.

[osdset]

How many of these interviews have you actually had?

 

The legislation allows for a maximum 6.

 

Any more and I'd complain.

 

You can be sanctioned for not turning up to these 6 meetings. They're called Work Focused Interviews or WFIs

 

Apparently the legislation has changed, there is now no limit to the amount and frequency of WFI's.

[Lilly_Monroe]

If a choice I would stay with the JC.

As they say, better the devil you know.

[speedfreek]

Apparently the legislation has changed, there is now no limit to the amount and frequency of WFI's.

 

You wat!

 

If you would be so kind, any chance of a link so I can investigate further please?

 

I honestly have found a few pilots for ESA like

 

http://disabilityrightsuk.org/news/2013/november/esa-health-care-pilot-provider-guidance - which would be quite interesting if it was fully funded and didn't involve as I suspect care on the read Spot the dog books for the under 5s. Although they are a bit more technical than some might like.

 

and have checked the guides on the site that can't be named which still state 6.

 

So... would be very interested!

 

I've only ever had 1 WFI with Ingus in early 2010 and even re-assessment 2 years ago hasn't triggered another.

 

Famous last words

[Perseus1]

I,m currently in the work related activity group of ESA. My job centre advisor has told me I have to go to a "information session" with A4E. Because I have a 24mth prognosis, he says I can't be forced to go with them. But I have to attend the information session and then choose whether I want to go with A4E or stay with the job centre advisor.

I haven't got a clue what would be best, so if anyone has any experience of A4E I would love to hear it please. I have to make it known though that it's not an easy option to stay with my job centre advisor. Every time I see him I get hints of sanctions thrown at me. I dread every meeting I have with him. He doesn't seem to make any allowances for my health problems at all.

Anyone?

 

Post deleted. Change of mind.

 

I think I would try it out if it is a personal interview. Ask JC Advisor what is involved. They are meant to tell you.

 

 

Extract: Vulnerable Participants

Participants who have complex needs and require more support to access

services. These are:

• Participants with complex needs or who require support to access

DWP services and benefits;

• Require additional support due to a life event or personal

circumstances (including disabilities, mental health conditions,

 

I would be inclined to decline a group induction.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Perseus1

[sunnysue]

I have to go to an About You interview. Do I have to fill in the About You quesionaire and sign it? Am I able to refuse to sign it? Thanks. Sue x

Edited December 2, 2013 by sunnysue

[sunnysue]

Duplicate post.

Edited December 2, 2013 by sunnysue

[Perseus1]

I have to go to an About You interview. Do I have to fill in the About You quesionaire and sign it? Am I able to refuse to sign it? Thanks. Sue x

 

Without knowing the rules. Why not?

 

This is an offer of help to find you something useful to do? And you might even get a paid, eventually.

 

If you don't tell them what you want, they will have to make up their own minds and then you only blame yourself for not telling them if they get you all wrong!.

 

In a one to one interview this seems acceptable to me, as long as they do not browbeat you. I declined to publish by barriers to work in front of a crowd of fellow claimants though. Privacy.

[sunnysue]

I asked because so many people have told me not to sign anything.

[Perseus1]

I asked because so many people have told me not to sign anything.

 

In the final straw it comes down to how you feel/think or what you intuition says.

 

Let the people give a good reason why you should not collaborate with them. I would go there without trepidation and try and look forward to it.

 

If you want to make a stand because you think you are mistreated, save it for something important. I expect you will learn something. Unless you have something really much more important and better to do?

 

This is not theory. I volunteered for a hands-on computer assessment tomorrow to see if I am to scratch for going straight into a job. I was having my doubts. The place is claustrophobic, but I will have to put up with it. I don't think people should really work in such cramped offices even for pay. But I think I can walk out if I don't think it is suitable. I won't do this though.

 

It is important that you mention any barriers to work if you want to progress.

 

If you feel you are being browbeaten, I would clam up. If asked I said (real life) that our personalities were incompatible and I did not feel happy about revealing things. This sort of thing happen sometimes. Then ask for someone else to speak to.

[jasta11]

Just heard on the radio this morning that yet another branch of A4e are being investigated for fraud. Apparently they submitted false paperwork to the visiting auditors..again.

 

This is happening with monotonous regularity. Time to pull the plug on this company for good.

[osdset]

Name one provider that hasn't had allegations made against them.

[Mr.P]

Just heard on the radio this morning that yet another branch of A4e are being investigated for fraud. Apparently they submitted false paperwork to the visiting auditors..again.

 

Slough by any chance ?

 

The latest is that five of the original nine have had further charges made against them. It will all end in tears...

[Lilly_Monroe]

Slough by any chance ?

 

The latest is that five of the original nine have had further charges made against them. It will all end in tears...

 

Sooner rather than later - for ALL the WP!

[jasta11]

Yup, Slough. Article here for anyone who hasn't yet seen it - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-24291161

 

Quote: 'The nine individuals are charged with a total of 60 offences, including conspiracy to defraud, multiple counts of forgery and making and possessing articles for use in fraud'. 60 offences? Hard to plead 'isolated clerical error' there then!

 

You'd think that making their money by doing little and claiming appropriate fees would be enough, without outright crime.

Edited December 3, 2013 by jasta11

[Perseus1]

Just heard on the radio this morning that yet another branch of A4e are being investigated for fraud. Apparently they submitted false paperwork to the visiting auditors..again.

 

This is happening with monotonous regularity. Time to pull the plug on this company for good.

 

I see charities are advertising for jobs for proper accountants to oversee this sort of work or to design the systems. Line Managers (like seen at A4e) might not have the skills and aptitudes. The might not even know the basic principles of accounts? They ought to though. Some people pass the exams but still don't get it. They are trying to do it on the cheap. The only set-up is a shambles and I don't think they are going to be able to develop the systems within budget. Even the Daily Mail agrees. Price Waterhouse said it was not financially viable.