Is it mandatory to let the advisor access your universal job match?

[Perseus1]

In real life (not hypothetical) if a Job Centre advisor or WP advisor asked me for proof and did not take my word that I employed for a job, I would consider it a breach of trust and an irrevocable breakdown of the relationship. I requested a new WP advisor w/o citing this as a reason.

 

I allow JC access, but it is good to know that I do not have to. If they get stroppy I will withdraw my permission. I don't like it that I can't delete entries. I have not allowed the WP permission in any case on confidential grounds.

[kernowlife]

As far as I know, the guidance hasn't changed - and that says that they (the DWP) can NOT specify how a client shows their job search. It can be done on via UJ, on paper and even verbally. See the extract below, which is part of a reply by DWP Central Office 22/07/2013 to someone asking if they had to give access to their UJ account and quotes Chapter 3 of the Universal Jobmatch Guidance (which all advisors should know and abide by!) - I've outlined the main points in red;

 

190. The evidence of jobsearch produced when they attend to have their regular reviews may

be in various forms:

 information they have provided from their Universal Jobmatch account;

 evidence in writing from employers, employment agencies, or other organisations which

they have contacted;

 copies of letters they have sent to employers;

 the claimant’s un-corroborated written evidence, for example an ES4;

 the claimant’s verbal evidence

 evidence from previous Jobsearch Reviews recorded on LMS.

 

In response to the question you have raised about requiring jobsearch evidence from Universal

Jobmatch. Advisers cannot mandate claimants to give them access to their Universal

Jobmatch account, nor can they force a claimant to print out screen prints of their UJ account.

The extracts below from Chapter 3 of the Universal Jobmatch Toolkit clearly explain the

parameters when assessing what a claimant has done to look for work within Universal

Jobmatch.

Actively Seeking Employment

82. We cannot specify to a JSA claimant how they provide us with records of their jobsearch

activity and Universal Jobmatch will not change this – it is not therefore possible to require

JSA claimants to give DWP access to their Universal Jobmatch account.

 

Well today I ended up having an interview with the job centre manager. I quoted the above noted paragraph and was told the following (Don't forget this is the Job Centre Manager!!!)

 

"Oh I'm not familiar with that one, I will have to look it up and get back to you" as she wrote the details down.

[Complete Misfit]

In real life (not hypothetical) if a Job Centre advisor or WP advisor asked me for proof and did not take my word that I employed for a job, I would consider it a breach of trust and an irrevocable breakdown of the relationship. I requested a new WP advisor w/o citing this as a reason.

 

I allow JC access, but it is good to know that I do not have to. If they get stroppy I will withdraw my permission. I don't like it that I can't delete entries. I have not allowed the WP permission in any case on confidential grounds.

 

Wish I thought of that when I was claiming JSA. I allowed my adviser to see my universal job match, and even though I applied for jobs on it, it took me to another site so it didn't seem to log that I had applied on it. So he was basically accusing me of lying that I had applied on there.

[Perseus1]

Wish I thought of that when I was claiming JSA. I allowed my adviser to see my universal job match, and even though I applied for jobs on it, it took me to another site so it didn't seem to log that I had applied on it. So he was basically accusing me of lying that I had applied on there.

 

I don't apply for jobs via Job Match any more. They are all on Monster. I use the other Recruitment Agencies and I consider the jobs up there unsuitable or repeated elsewhere.

 

Most jobs are not ideal and I tend to apply nearer to home because I hate travelling on a dark damp morning. These sort of jobs are best listed on CV Library, Total Jobs and other agencies.

 

WP Advisor has asked me for the names of the Recruitment Agencies I have signed up for. I do not consider this being unduly nosey. They can suggest other ones if I have overlooked one. It took me a bit of time to get up to speed on this.

 

For the Job Centre to encourage/coerce you do sign up on the Job Log to just be helpful advice. Sometimes, I forget to log jobs applied for. I keep a record on my computer as replies (most of the time) come through EMail. I just cut and paste the details on the job log. I find this much easier than writing it out in pen as I have been known to leave my Signing-on booklet at home so I am highly likely to lose a written job log. Better all around.

[nickk]

I'll be putting a new thread up later about the whole interview because I feel there were a number of breaches of rules/power today. However I did ask him to show me the rules and the legislation/law and was refused with

 

"I do not have to show you anything!"

 

See, this is what I'm worried about. I don't want to come off as belligerent and argumentative, but at the same time, I don't want to give them access; I'd much rather submit printouts as proof.

 

In theory, he might have to show you legislation/law but in reality he probably can do pretty much what he wants.

[nickk]

I would recommend collaborating and allow them access. More grief than it is worth not to.

 

 

There's an element of coercion, I feel. I can see why they want access - they want to root out the lazy skivers who aren't applying for work. I am, and am happy for them to see all my printed applications, even every week.

 

I don't want to annoy them, but I don't want to give them access either.

[antone]

There's an element of coercion, I feel. I can see why they want access - they want to root out the lazy skivers who aren't applying for work. I am, and am happy for them to see all my printed applications, even every week.

 

I don't want to annoy them, but I don't want to give them access either.

 

If you don't want to give them access then don't. Whether or not the advisers are "annoyed" isn't your problem. And no, JCP advisers can't just do whatever they like. Believe me, I've worked for JCP (though not as a front line adviser) and the staff are not free to behave as they wish.

 

In any case, if the most annoying thing they have to deal with that day is a JSA claimant refusing to give them UJM access, it will count as a pretty easy shift for them.

[jasta11]

The JC seem to expect people to find at least a couple of UJ jobs - no doubt they've been told this by their managers (and my own decent advisor has confirmed that they have been told this, at least in my JC).

 

While there may be requirements in a JS Agreement to 'use' UJ or 'check' UJ, there's nothing to say you have to actually find and apply for any jobs on there; you can use any site you want as long as you meet the minimum application requirements of your JS agreement - in my case, only 5 per week.

 

I'm only mandated to 'check' UJ so... I create a search, which is logged and dated automatically in the 'My Activities' section. I do this every day then screen-print the list, showing I have indeed been in to UJ every day and done something. That's all they'll ever get from my UJ account. I show them 50+ applications from other jobsites and that satisfies them.

 

Give them access and you multiply the chances of a sanction, either because you innocently forgot to record/check something, or the site itself failed to record a genuine application (which can definitely happen) or in the worst case, it loses all your fortnight's jobsearch if you store everything on there (which has also happened).

 

I also simply don't trust most of the advisors - I've had them blatently lie to me in the past so God knows what they might get up to if they have access to a customer's account and have sanction targets to meet.

[Shendor]

My advisor told me last week that I MUST tick the box to allow access. I don't have an issue with it, but fair enough if other claimants do. My issue would be that if I got uppity and started shouting rules and regs at her then she'd simply say, 'OK, you are correct. Now I need you to come in EVERY DAY for your signing.' - See what I mean? You may win the battle but lose the war. Whilst I play 'good dog' with her and roll over to have my belly tickled, she doesn't make too much trouble for me. She said last week that some people are having to now come in every day to do a jobsearch at job centre, but as she could see I was making an effort, she was happy for now to keep me on a two-week signing cycle.

 

Think on about your attitude, would be my advice...

[essexmat]

Come in every day to a job search? That is very productive when you can do it of your own accord. Of course should JCP/WP want to take this route with people presumably as your JSA is money you need to live off they will refund the £25.00 odd travel per week to attend? Or if they are not going to do this then I presume £45.00p/w is enough for us to get by? Stupid rules set out by a government that simply has no idea about the real world.

 

This is why when I was made redundant I made sure I got 2 voluntary roles (one which may lead to something in the near future) at 14 hours per week doing what I want to do and keeping my skills and references up to date. The least time I spend in the company of JCP/WP the better - one a fortnight for 30 minutes is quite enough.

[Bazooka Boo]

I wouldn't be worried about my attitude one bit.

It's the attitude of the JCP staff that is of concern, making demands of other when there is absolutely no basis for doing so simply because they want to inflate their ego and attempt to exert some kind of authority of the jobless is utterly puerile.

 

Always question authority, maintain the upper hand, bending over and adopting the position just so you massage their ego in an attempt of giving you an easier ride will simply come back to bite you later on, if they think they can control you and your a 'yes' man, then they will walk all over you.

[Shendor]

I wouldn't be worried about my attitude one bit.

It's the attitude of the JCP staff that is of concern, making demands of other when there is absolutely no basis for doing so simply because they want to inflate their ego and attempt to exert some kind of authority of the jobless is utterly puerile.

 

Always question authority, maintain the upper hand, bending over and adopting the position just so you massage their ego in an attempt of giving you an easier ride will simply come back to bite you later on, if they think they can control you and your a 'yes' man, then they will walk all over you.

 

I think you've missed my point. As people on JSA we ARE without power. We NEED their money. Wish it wasn't so. But by getting all self-righteous and antagonistic with them, even when we have the legislation on our side is counter-productive. We may be right, but they can still passively-aggressively, or even actively make the whole process much more troublesome, within the rules. I'd rather endure it under the radar, than bring myself to their attention so they LOOK for a reason to sanction me.

 

Let them play their little ego-trip power games if it makes them happy. I'm sure they must go home at night, look in the mirror and inwardly scream. Such types of people usually do.

[jasta11]

I wouldn't be worried about my attitude one bit.

It's the attitude of the JCP staff that is of concern, making demands of other when there is absolutely no basis for doing so simply because they want to inflate their ego and attempt to exert some kind of authority of the jobless is utterly puerile.

 

Always question authority, maintain the upper hand, bending over and adopting the position just so you massage their ego in an attempt of giving you an easier ride will simply come back to bite you later on, if they think they can control you and your a 'yes' man, then they will walk all over you.

 

Spot on. I reached a point where I was thinking 'Are there any advisors in this $%^&* jobcentre who actually know the rules??' and that's when my tolerance ended. Even the few decent advisors lack knowledge though they won't deliberately invent rules and lie like the bad advisors will.

 

I have most definitely had an easier time by standing up for myself (always calmly and very politely) and, if necessary, reporting staff. I used to see different advisors each time I signed but now I see the same one - and a very pleasant person she is too. Maybe just coincidence but I like to think it's because the other bad advisors don't want to deal with customers who know the rules better than they do. I'm quite happy with this

[Bazooka Boo]

I think you've missed my point. As people on JSA we ARE without power. We NEED their money. Wish it wasn't so.

 

Let them play their little ego-trip power games if it makes them happy. I'm sure they must go home at night, look in the mirror and inwardly scream. Such types of people usually do.

 

Yes sorry, I see what you mean. Just as well I'm not on JSA although I have to go for a WFI next week, quite what they think they are going to do is beyond me??

I just don't take fools gladly, that's the way I am now, I am unable to stop my mouth running away if they don't show me the courtesy and mutual respect I expect, then they are going to be at the end of a very sharp tongue!

 

I'm in a position where by because they have stripped me of all my benefits, IB to ESA con, that I don't need to mind my P's and Q's, I can tell them exactly what I think.

[Shendor]

Yes sorry, I see what you mean. Just as well I'm not on JSA although I have to go for a WFI next week, quite what they think they are going to do is beyond me??

I just don't take fools gladly, that's the way I am now, I am unable to stop my mouth running away if they don't show me the courtesy and mutual respect I expect, then they are going to be at the end of a very sharp tongue!

 

I'm in a position where by because they have stripped me of all my benefits, IB to ESA con, that I don't need to mind my P's and Q's, I can tell them exactly what I think.

 

Fair play - in that situation I'd be exactly the same. Hope it all works out for you at the WFI

[Bazooka Boo]

Thank you!