Tribunal coming up, money worries - ** WON **

[trev1865]

we will do that.

to clarify it wont be a new claim for esa then,or will it as her last claim was stopped by the dwp?

[**Margaret**]

:trev1865:

 

Your wife's request for assessment rate employment n support pending her appeal hearing isn't a new claim. I'm not sure how Jobcentreplus processors deal with a suspended claim for ESA at the same time as a live claim for jobseekers, cos the computer's programmed to prevent two claims at the same time. But your wife's current ESA claim, although it's not being paid at the moment won't be finally closed unless a tribunal panel uphold the fit for work decision, or she misses any of the appeal deadlines.

 

Margaret.

[trev1865]

thanks margeret

now we are scared to sign off jsa incase theres a long wait to be put back on esa assesment rate resulting in no income at all

i presume we will get a letter from dwp confirming our appeal to tribunal? is it that letters address we should send notification of our desire to swap on to esa to?

[trev1865]

we took advice from a solicitor who said in effect it is a new claim for esa were making.

as we dont get paid jsa till this thursday we dare not claim till then and as it is past mar 30 we are still worried they can refuse us esa?

sorry if i appear slow on the uptake...i am!

[**Margaret**]

:trev1865:

 

:frown: , oh I hate these situations. You've no reason whatsoever to accept my advice over that of a qualified solicitor, but in my experience and opinion you've been advised incorrectly and the solicitor certainly hasn't read Chapter 42 of the Decision Makers' Guide. (Hundreds of pages that Work n Pensions decision makers use to inform their determinations in the context of legislation.)

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/decision-makers-guide-vols-8-and-9-employment-and-support-allowance-staff-guide

(Chapter 42, section 42445)

 

Important note about jobseekers is that there isn't a live jobseekers claim. Of the dozen or so claimants I've known in your wife's situation, there hasn't been a telephone claim to 08000 556688 or an ESA1 form between them.

 

So it's either stay on jobseekers. If your wife can cope, you won't have to stress about a gap in payments,

 

Or close jobseekers and follow my advice in #45,

 

Or close jobseekers and make a new claim for employment n support on the grounds of a different or worsened condition, which your wife can do and keep her appeal open at the same time. The big 'but' to this option is that; as we've now passed 30 March 15, ESA won't be paid until a decision maker is satisfied that your wife has or can be treated as having limited capability for work. Initial response from Jobcentreplus will be an ESA83 form asking for evidence. Should the evidence not be satisfactory ESA won't be paid unless she's found to have limited capability for work via a new work capability assessment.

 

ESA is an ever harsher benefit to claim and I'm as sure as I can be that I've advised you correctly. But given the circumstances you may wish to seek further professional advice. Is there a support charity for your wife's condition?

 

Sincerely, Margaret.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[trev1865]

we are so confused now but we are going to follow your original advice and sign off jsa tomorrow..if it turns out esa wont be paid will we have a long wait to get back on jsa again?

[**Margaret**]

:trev1865:

 

Has your wife lodged a formal appeal (form SSCS1) directly to the Tribunals Service? And equally important, so far as assessment rate employment n support is concerned, has her appeal been acknowledged by the Tribunals Service yet? Cos you need to photocopy the acknowledgement and send a copy to the address on the disallowance letter, along with a Med 3 (unfit) note and a written request for assessment rate ESA pending an appeal hearing.

 

There's no reason why Jobcentreplus shouldn't pay assessment rate ESA in your wife's circumstances. It's not a new claim after 30 March. Might help to quote the original date of the claim that's been disallowed.

 

(There's something called rapid reclaim for jobseekers. I don't know the details but someone else will.)

 

Margaret.

 

 

 

 

[trev1865]

Yes logged appeal and confirmation back from tribunal. Also text msg confirmation from dwp this evening.would you advise ring or write to esa? Would prefer write but need to know date to backdate fit note

 

 

 

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[trev1865]

signed off jsa this morning

rang esa, predictably she said sorry theve changed the rules.when i told her it was not a new claim she said oh ok post everything in then!

got a feeling they are eventually going to write back saying we cant do it as the rules have changed?

how do you suggest i get through to them that we are allowed to do this( if indeed we can?)

[**Margaret**]

:trev1865:

 

Once this application gets to a Jobcentreplus decision maker, rather than a call centre, there's no reason why your wife shouldn't be paid assessment rate employment n support pending her appeal hearing. But if it goes pearshaped;

 

The answer, in writing, is to copy/quote the guidance and legislation to them and ask for their explanation for not paying out. (Using this tactic, a self-help group that I attend has a 100% success rate for conversion awards from incapacity benefit and near 100% for ESA disagreements.)

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/decision-makers-guide-vols-8-and-9-employment-and-support-allowance-staff-guide

(Chapter 42, section 42445, cos your wife's claim pre-dated 30 March 15.)

 

And the document I referred to in #48.

 

I understand that this is an extremely stressful time for you and your wife, so should it be necessary (for any reason) please, pretty please, can someone tell us how to make a rapid reclaim for jobseekers.

 

Margaret.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[trev1865]

thanks again..your advice is actually keeping us going at the moment..still no news from dwp since we signed off jsa but expecting something to happen this week

[trev1865]

still waiting from any response from dwp..

still bit confused if we can be disallowed from esa from 30 march new legislation

just found this online..

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/384007/esa-repeat-awards-regulations-2015-ssac-memorandum.pdf

[trev1865]

after waiting almost 4 weeks since we signed off jsa, the dwp admitted they had lost our proof of logging to tribunal and fit note.

we took these copies again to the job centre where they were scanned.the next day they rang to say they couldnt find the fitnote! a few minutes later they found it. the next day they put the backdated payment in our bank but it was wrong..they had forgot it was a joint claim.today they finally put that right.its been a long stressful wait and next stop is the tribunal.

[**Margaret**]

:trev1865,

 

this has been such a stressful time for you n your wife. Part of the problem is that the outgoing Government preferred appellants to stay on jobseekers (to be closer to the jobs market) rather than pay assessment rate employment n support pending appeal. Absolutely crackers! Doesn't save the taxpayer a bean!! Flipping between benefits gives Jobcentreplus extra admin costs.

 

Now, I don't know (or want to know) which area of the country you live in, but in some areas the horrendous waits for a tribunal hearing have lessened considerably. Consequently, your wife needs to get her case for tribunal prepared sooner rather than later.

 

CAG has an excellent guide, which has been used successfully by several of our members, to prepare a written submission of evidence for the tribunal panel;

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?251737-Appealing-or-going-to-a-Tribunal-Some-useful-information

 

Doctors are told it's not their job to police the benefit system but there may be something in your wife's medical records to cast doubt on the ESA85. Via subject access, a tenner gets you everything that's on the computer. Do you, or someone else, have to give your wife extra help cos of tasks she can't manage? For example, she needs a chaperone when she visits the doctor, or anywhere else, cos she can't walk unaided to the bus stop or has trouble following conversations cos of concentration/memory issues? A statement from a carer may help.

 

Best wishes, Margaret.

 

 

 

 

[trev1865]

we will look at the example you gave and see if there is more we can do.the tribunal have already been sent a doctors statement strongly supporting her case.the main claim we are appealing is the descriptor about bowel problems.wife was told outright no points are awarded for consistant soiling etc..we have found the list of descriptors and that is just not true.

[**Margaret**]

:trev1865:

 

Unfortunately dignity goes out the window during work capability assessments and the subsequent tribunals.

 

There are points for incontinence, but the episodes have to be pretty severe. Or the claimant has to be at risk of an episode for the majority of the time. Here's what the assessors are told to consider;

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/work-capability-assessment-handbook-for-healthcare-professionals

(Pages 105 - 107)

 

Margaret.

[trev1865]

so wifes tribunal is finally happening on july 7th..we have solicitors helping us and going with her to tribunal.

as usual i am thinking the worst case scenario and our appeal is thrown out..what then?

[trev1865]

update..wife won appeal with recomendation to be assesed again in 2 yrs..havnt seen paperwork yet so i dont know for sure if shes in support group. does she need to provide fitnotes still?

been getting 229 pounds a fortnight on assesment rate esa..does this go up now? its been years since she was on full esa i know the first 14 weeks dont count but after that is there a cap on backdated payments

as it would probably be a large amount? cheers

[Nystagmite]

ESA will go up, yes. It will take a few weeks for DWP to look at the decision.

[honeybee13]

Well done on your win, that's excellent news.

 

I'll amend your thread title to reflect this.

 

HB

[trev1865]

thankyou to everyone on this forum for their help and advice

[citizenB]

Excellent news.

[antone]

update..wife won appeal with recomendation to be assesed again in 2 yrs..havnt seen paperwork yet so i dont know for sure if shes in support group. does she need to provide fitnotes still?

been getting 229 pounds a fortnight on assesment rate esa..does this go up now? its been years since she was on full esa i know the first 14 weeks dont count but after that is there a cap on backdated payments

as it would probably be a large amount? cheers

 

Good news! She will be placed in either the WRAG or the Support Group and yes, this will increase her fortnightly payment somewhat. The increase will be backdated to week 14 of her claim and there is no cap on the amount of a backdated payment.

[estellyn]

Best to continue to provide fit notes until she gets the dwp letter notifying her of wrag or sg.

[benidick]

Best news ever, congratulations to your wife and yourself.

 

I have been fighting for mine for 41/2 years, backwards and forwards to the upper tribunal and back, so pleased I have found this site.

Would like to thank Honeybee13 for the template, which I have already written for my next appeal on the 28th Aug.

 

Take Care All