Foot in door law

[%Ostrich%]

Can the good people of this forum please explain their understanding of the "foot in door" action that some bailiffs use in connection with Magistrates Court fines please?

 

Does it make a difference if the bailiff just stands there with his foot in the door refusing to remove it but going no further than the threshold or do folk believe it to be an illegal action regardless?

[renegadeimp]

Stamp on it. Hell soon move. Just kidding. Gotta be careful since its a court fine.

[outlawla]

Have a look at page 31 & 32 of the Bailiff Pocketbook

[%Ostrich%]

Thanks outlawla, very interesting reading. However, this is a guide provided by a bailiff company and as such a little bias. The sections you refer to relate to "peaceful entry" by the bailiff.

 

What if the bailiff uses this method as a means of continuing a verbal conversation with a debtor (who refuses to cooperate) after a conversation takes place about the money allegedly owed to the Crown?

 

If the bailiff places his foot in the doorway and refuses to remove it but goes no further than the threshold while continuing said attempts to remedy the situation on behalf of HRH, does he break any law where case law can be used to confirm said unlawful action?

 

[king12345]

Let them in and go out locking them in the house. Then call the police and say that you have burglars.

That will waste them a few hours, however if they're court bailiffs the problem won't go away.

You will still need to pay the fine and costs unfortunately.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Let them in and go out locking them in the house. Then call the police and say that you have burglars.

That will waste them a few hours, however if they're court bailiffs the problem won't go away.

You will still need to pay the fine and costs unfortunately.

 

And end up with a charge of false imprisonment????

[king12345]

And end up with a charge of false imprisonment????

 

you are out and find strangers in your house and lock them in before calling the police.
I call this 'any person arrest' under PACE.
How would you know they're bailiffs?
You probably forgot the front door open and they entered without breaking in.
Then you saw them through the window and locked them in.
Police will have trouble ruling this version out.

[renegadeimp]

King, you just changed the scenaro. You said, and i quote:

 

Let them in and go out locking them in the house. Then call the police and say that you have burglars.

 

No. You have guests you allowed in then locked them in. That is false imprisonment.

 

You then change the topic to

 

you are out and find strangers in your house and lock them in before calling the police.

I call this 'any person arrest' under PACE.

How would you know they're bailiffsicon?

You probably forgot the front door open and they entered without breaking in.

Then you saw them through the window and locked them in.

Police will have trouble ruling this version out.

 

 

So you are willing to lie to the police and risk heavy penalties including substantial prison time.

 

 

I think its time you stopped posting as your attempt to justify what you are saying is falling flat. We have no doubt that you hate bailiffs with a passion, but stopping to their level NEVER works out. Play by the rules and dont give them a single inch to move and theyre easy to deal with.

[king12345]

King, you just changed the scenaro. You said, and i quote:

 

 

 

No. You have guests you allowed in then locked them in. That is false imprisonment.

 

You then change the topic to

 

 

 

 

So you are willing to lie to the police and risk heavy penalties including substantial prison time.

 

 

I think its time you stopped posting as your attempt to justify what you are saying is falling flat. We have no doubt that you hate bailiffs with a passion, but stopping to their level NEVER works out. Play by the rules and dont give them a single inch to move and theyre easy to deal with.

 

It was a tongue in cheek email, but I see that it failed to come through as such.
Never had to deal with the lovely bailiffs myself, apart from when they knocked at my door to gain antry to my neighbour 's back garden.
I let you imagine my answer (little clue: starts with f and ands with u, followed by the common word starting with c)
If you read my entire post you would have seen that I said that if they are court bailiffs the problem won't go away, but it will just get bigger.
Anyway, excuse my intrusion in your personal blog

[renegadeimp]

I know it was a tongue in cheek, but unless you state that in your post ( like i did in mine), you run the risk of someone misinterpreting it and possibly trying it. Especially on a public open forum.

 

And less of the personal attacks. There is absolutely no need for it.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I know it was a tongue in cheek, but unless you state that in your post ( like i did in mine), you run the risk of someone misinterpreting it and possibly trying it. Especially on a public open forum.

 

And less of the personal attacks. There is absolutely no need for it.

 

How true, a little thought before posting especially when the comments come from one with no experience of a particular situation.

[sonictheory]

isn't it a good idea to film the bailiff if they put a foot in the door. If you've asked them to remove it on camera and they refuse do they not as such leave you with the option of standing there forever or moving away allowing them in? Is this not then forced entry as you would be technically under duress? Or am I missing something?

[renegadeimp]

It is always a good idea to film a bailiff. Even if they are acting completely in line with all regulations. If they refuse to be filmed, or are aggressive, then you have to ask yourself why.

 

If they wont remove their foot from the door, iirc you can take reasonable force to remove them. What defines reasonable though is completely up for debate, as many rogue bailiffs will claim assault. Even if its a 90 year old frail woman who did it.

[brassnecked]

It is always a good idea to film a bailiff. Even if they are acting completely in line with all regulations. If they refuse to be filmed, or are aggressive, then you have to ask yourself why.

 

If they wont remove their foot from the door, iirc you can take reasonable force to remove them. What defines reasonable though is completely up for debate, as many rogue bailiffs will claim assault. Even if its a 90 year old frail woman who did it.

 

Think R v Tucker 2012, mind you the bailiffs lost their cetrificates over that one, where a debtor was wrongfully convicted of assaulting two bailiffs who perjured themselves, and the conviction was overturned on appeal. The police came out of that one with discredit also

[HCEOs]

I don't think king12345's advice was tongue in cheek just the usual drivel by somebody who knows nothing about the subject matter. And what is meant by court bailiff.?... Advice like this is dangerous and not up to the usual standard for posters on here.

 

I would remind anybody that a bailiff has a right to force entry once inside and that includes to get out. Kicking the door through will not please anybody.

[HCEOs]

What I would add is that any type of Enforcement Agent should not use the foot in the door approach. Access should be peaceful at all times.

[tomtubby]

What I would add is that any type of Enforcement Agent should not use the foot in the door approach. Access should be peaceful at all times.

 

 

 

 

Just reading your post reminded me about a comical incident around in 2006 at Clerkenwell & Shoreditch County Court. At the time I was observing a Form 4 complaint with a client and her solicitor and we were really early and there was a steady stream of bailiffs arriving for either certification or renewals and one bailiff arrived on crutches with plaster on both his feet.

 

I would have loved to have been in court because the bailiff came out of the court and said that Judge Cothrane ( who I think has now retired) refused to grant him a renewal without knowing more about the incident that led to all his toes being broken.