parking fine from civil enforcement whilst in Pencoed, Wales

[poorweescotsman]

i had notification of an alleged parking offence whilst attending a friends wedding in Wales,

 

the pcn was dated 11/10/13,

parking offence 28/09/13,

reminder today with £90 fine to pay in the next 14 days,

 

thing is, myself or wife, don't recall seeing a parking notice in the said carpark,

no ticket on windscreen,

just this notification out of the blue, two weeks after the day.

 

Q. where do I stand if refuse to pay,

 

because now I have received a final warning with threats of debt recovery & legal proceedings, advice please

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

What ever you do . Don't pay

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

Agreed!

 

This is a speculative invoice, not a fine

[poorweescotsman]

red letter looks highly serious, & fine has doubled £45 to £90, just a wee bit worried that they would go all the way to Scotland just for £90, cant see it myself??

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

They won't.

As your in Scotland u can ignore.

 

It's not a fine you have been told this.

 

And why is red ink more serious then black or blue ink

[havinastella]

If you are in Scotland......................................

 

I refer to your invoice dated the xxxxxx

 

In response, I would ask you to note the following.

The registered keeper/owner of a vehicle is under no obligation whatsoever to provide details of the driver or any other information to a commercial company of no legal status of any description. (Scottish Jurisdiction).

 

In addition, liability for payment could only be determined by a Sherriff under Scottish Civil Law and such demands should not be confused in any way with Penalty Charge Notices issued under the terms of a Road Traffic Order.

 

Furthermore,, where a ticket has been issued under the law of contract to a vehicle which although allowed to park on the land, is in breach of the conditions relating to parking, the driver could argue that the charge being demanded is so high that it amounts to a penalty and is therefore unlawful under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999.

 

What the regulations state

 

A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties’ rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.

 

A term shall always be regarded as not having been individually negotiated when it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term.

The previous paragraphs are also supported by the Scottish case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498 the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract

 

Transferral to a debt collection agency and the threat of additional charges is also in my opinion questionable for the following reasons taken from the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance.

 

 

2.6 Paragraph H.

Ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for money.

 

2.8 Paragraph A

Sending demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

2.8 Paragraph J

Requiring an individual to supply information to prove they are not the debtor in question.

 

2.10 Paragraph B

Misleading debtors into believing that they are legally liable to pay collection charges when this is not the case, for example, when there is no contractual provision. .

 

I am also aware that I am under no obligation to engage in any way with debt collection agents.

 

In Conclusion, the contents of this correspondence should not be considered as a letter of appeal, but as total denial of liability..

 

I hope this clearly outlines my position.

 

Yours faithfully

[ericsbrother]

As you were in WALES at the time it is english law that counts, not Scottish, I'm afraid so the above 2 posts are incorrect.

 

You have several choices,

you can continue to ignore or you can respond to the company by telling them that you deny any liability to them whatsoever

as you have not entered into a contract with them by way of either a paper submission for your consideration

nor an offer via signage so no unilateral contract.

 

If they can prove that your trespass has caused the landowner a loss

then you will consider paying compensation for any liquidated loss suffered by the landowner to them and them only.

 

Any claim otherwise will be strongly refuted.

 

An alternative is to again deny a contract and loss to CEL and ask for this to be considered as an appeal and ask for a POPLA number if they dont accept that.

[Maursh]

Unless I have miscounted, I think they have failed to comply with Schedule 4 Protections of Freedoms Acts 9(5) and 9(6) 5) "The relevant period for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4) is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended.” 6) "A notice sent by post is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to have been delivered (and so “given” for the purposes of sub-paragraph (4)) on the second working day after the day on which it is posted; and for this purpose “working day” means any day other than a Saturday, Sunday or a public holiday in England and Wales." So it is dated 13 days after the event took place, but they failed to allow for 2 days of postage so it would arrive within the relevant period.

[Maursh]

The editor keeps on removing my paragraphs - sorry. Hope the above makes sense.

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

Cel don't use pofa in most cases.

[Maursh]

Thanks, Kirkby - who are Cel?

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

Civil enforcement

[Maursh]

Sorry, it was in the title!

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

They issue thier invoices under old school rules

[Maursh]

If Civil Enforcement are not relying on schedule 4 PoFA then they cannot pursue the registered keeper for the alleged debt - only the driver. Do not advise on the identity of the driver and submit a response as the register keeper under PoFA.

[armadillo71]

i had notification of an alleged parking offence whilst attending a friends wedding in Wales,

 

the pcn was dated 11/10/13,

parking offence 28/09/13,

reminder today with £90 fine to pay in the next 14 days,

 

thing is, myself or wife, don't recall seeing a parking notice in the said carpark,

no ticket on windscreen,

just this notification out of the blue, two weeks after the day.

 

Q. where do I stand if refuse to pay,

 

because now I have received a final warning with threats of debt recovery & legal proceedings, advice please

 

Where was the car park? Hotel,supermarket... ?