My niece needs help please

[SweetLorraine]

Sure, steampowered is right - letter tennis is not a healthy pastime - I was just worried about that 29th of Nov, deadline - a pithy reply might be all that is needed.

 

According to a BBC new item from Jan. 2013 new ratios were being introduced "Statutory ratios for carers per child vary depending on age and setting. Ratios for two-year-olds are set to rise from four children per adult to six children per adult, and for ones-and-under to rise from three children per adult to four children per adult.Ratios for three-year-olds and over would remain at eight or 13 children per adult, depending on whether a qualified graduate was present."

 

Nurseries are governed by tight regulations - and clearly a higher ratio brings more stress to the adult carer. It is even more of a worry if these limits have been exceeded.

Edited November 28, 2013 by SweetLorraine

[maddiemay]

I agree with the backwards and forwards letters being unhealthy, Susan does get very upset each time another one with the same threat pops through the letter box. I need to return Susan's 'uniform' which consists of 2 x polo shirts tomorrow, or else the boss is adding that cost to the list of losses she compiling at the moment, I will prepare a short receipt for a signature as I don't trust them at all.

 

I have also discovered that the employer got funding for the college course, employer stated in her last letter that she's included it in her losses to date, so I assume she will refund it to whoever sent the funding, We rather hoped that Susan could enter into an agreement with whoever (Local Authority, I presume) to pay it in installments, so might be tricky if it has to be repaid direct to the employer.

 

I shall leave you all in peace for a few days, employer said Susan must contact her by the 29th, but can't see what she thinks she can do if she doesn't. One other interesting thing is that, employer seems desperate for Susan to contact her, seemingly by telephone, we have responded to all her letters, but she still keeps saying, you haven't contacted me to discus the money you owe!

That's all for now, I shall be back with the next instalment and no doubt more begging for help.

Thanks to all once again

Maddie

[SweetLorraine]

Personally I prefer the written word. I found at my old place of employment that HR had a fondness for the occasion phone call, or informal chat in a side room, rather than a written reply to an email enquiry. I later found, as we moved to an ET, that the contents of these 'cosy' chats were not only hotly denied by HR but were used to claim the opposite of what was said. A problem with a phone call is that they can be recorded and only sections of the transcript used to further the recording side's claims.

 

I guess you can just pop in, drop off the uniform, and see what comes next.

 

Even if the employer is advised by a solicitor that she has no claim for losses that doesn't mean that she won't try it on for a little while longer. I guess the nonsense may stop once the six weeks notice period is up.

 

Good luck tomorrow, don't let it ruin your week-end

[maddiemay]

Agree sweetlorraine, employer has sent every letter so far recorded which suggest to me she wants to make sure there is proof of delivery, something that didn't enter our heads would be necessary, until said employer pretended she didn't get our letter, so now we know how her mind works! I, and Susan also know she wants her to call so there is no proof of what was said, just like your cosy chats sinario!

 

This issue is all new to me, I've been through many things and had help from various people on CAG, but never any employment problems, I'm learning fast though thanks to you guys

Hope you all have a good and peaceful weekend

Maddie

[ericsbrother]

hand delivered letters are just that so no worries on that point and it would be stupid to argue they werent received.

I think that the ex-employer has stated a position they are now aware is wrong but arent going to back down because they dont want to admit they were wrong. The resignation has been accepted and that is that so no agency costs can be claimed and as for the college course costs, they must be mitigated by the employer so she cant claim the full whack when she hasnt paid them. To knowingly do so would actually be a criminal offence andif she is unaware then there is still the argument of betterment-ie making a profit from the situation which is not allowed and would be slapped down if she tried court for it.

Would agree that Susan should ask about doing the course as a place is held and paid for her and then offer to pay back ex-employer in instalments. If college has refunded some or all of the money then a stiff refutation of the claim supported by the college invoice/statement will be in order.

This woman is just sore that she didnt get everything her own way and Susan happened to be in the firing line at the time. It will be someone else next week.

[maddiemay]

Uniform delivered and signed for today, that can now be crossed off the list of employers losses. I have also been in touch with the college, and the lady I spoke to is going to find out if the course has actually been paid for yet, we are obviously hoping not, but unlikely really.

Other than that no further developments.

 

Thanks guys, really appreciate you posting

[maddiemay]

Update

I have been in contact with the college, and they said if I write in with all the details of Susan's illness, they will consider refunding the course fee. I have done this on Susan's behalf, and are awaiting a decision.

Susan had her final wage slip last Friday, it wasn't very clear what had been deducted, so I e-mailed the office manager at the former employers, setting it out in idiot form, to make it easier for me.

Then owner has replied today, and answered the questions.

It seems there was £600 in total, made up of holiday pay and final salary, this has been deducted for the college course, with £300 still owing. Obviously, the employer isn't aware that the college are considering a refund.

One of my questions to employer was how much did nursery receive in funding for course. Answer was, None! Very confusing, Susan was led to believe it was funded.

Employer says she has estimated the cost of replacing Susan to be £1.400, but will calculate exactly on the 20th December, as that is the date the 6 weeks notice period will be up.

Could someone advise me if it would be best to wait until 20th, then ignore everything until court papers are received. Or advise her we will not be offering any repayment, because as far as we are concerned, she accepted the notice, therefore contract ended on that date.

I'd be really grateful for any advice on which way to play it.

Many thanks

Maddie

[honeybee13]

Hello Maddie. I'm sorry this is still continuing.

 

I'm sure the experts will turn up later, but I would really expect the owner to come up with proper figures before she expects money. From memory, earlier in the thread the guys have pointed out how the figures could have been inflated by this lady.

 

You have time, don't rush into anything and well done for getting information from the college, that could be really useful later.

 

I think you're going about this the right way although it must be frustrating to bide your time. Please wait for the forum guys.

 

HB

[SweetLorraine]

....It seems there was £600 in total, made up of holiday pay and final salary, this has been deducted for the college course, with £300 still owing....

 

Sorry Maddie, I'm little confused - how much should Susan have got in total, how much has been deducted, and for what reasons?

[maddiemay]

Hi sweetlorraine

Final salary consisted of roughly, £250 holiday pay, and £350 salary, employers deducted the whole amount towards the college course fee.

[maddiemay]

Employer is charging Susan £5.90 ph for 6 x, 48 hr weeks, the difference between Susan's hourly rate and agency, as she says that's when Susan will end the contract.

[SweetLorraine]

Hi Maddie,

 

so it would appear that the employer is withholding all the final amount due to Susan (£600) and will probably present a bill for a further £800 to settle the debt of £1,400.

 

You may have to check her contract, and any other forms Susan may have signed, to see what the employer is entitled to deduct. Might be worth glancing through these websites.

 

https://www.gov.uk/understanding-your-pay/deductions-from-your-pay

 

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4125

 

Personally I would put it on the back boiler ahead of Xmas, enjoy the festive break and get stuck in again in the New Year. By then you may know where you stand with the ex-employer re: figures and whatever else she is saying/threatening.

 

If reasoning with the ex-employer doesn't work you may end up having to head to a Tribunal or small claims court to recover the £600.

 

If you want to put in a few hours before the end of the year, then maybe a visit to the local CAB might be a good idea at this point, they might be able to book you into a free advice session with a legal professional. If there is a local law centre nearby they might do some free advice sessions as well.

[maddiemay]

There will be no reasoning with the employer, I shan't even bother, she's a pretty nasty person from what I can gather, she certainly has no care or compassion for her employee's. If the college does indeed decide to refund, I presume they will pay it direct to employer, so she will have the course refunded, and £600 from Susan, if employer goes away and leaves her alone, I'm sure Susan would be happy with that.

I'm pretty sure employers have the right to keep any money owing if notice hasn't been worked, not sure how the land lies given the resignation, then being signed off, I suppose it could be argued that, Susan was emotionally unstable at the time she resigned, and maybe employer should have handled it better, rather than going straight in with the threats! Maybe we should see this through to court, that way Susan can let everyone know some of the reasons she felt she couldn't bear another day there!

We'll wait until after the 20th, when according to employer contract ends, and take it from there.

Thanks guys

Maddie

[Emmzzi]

if she gets stressed do NOT go to court. Srsly.

[ericsbrother]

Is she still signed off as unable to work by her doctor? If so her ex-employer is talking out of the wrong end of her alimentary canal when claiming losses.

[maddiemay]

Yes, still signed off, and awaiting appointment for counselling, more than likely she will be signed off again when she goes back to GP in January.

From the letters we have, it looks so obvious that the employer was not going to accept the resignation, but changed her mind once a medical certificate was produced, I'm assuming she would have had to pay SSP, if she didn't accept it.

Once accepted, contract terminated, I am led to believe, so employer cannot then hold Susan to anything contained within, said contract.

[maddiemay]

Update

Course fee is being refunded by college to employers, I'm very pleased about that, it's one less thing to worry about! So now employer has got her money back for that, plus £600 of Susan's wages, I just bet it's still not enough to make her go away and leave Susan to get well again.

 

So Susan's GP and College agree she's unwell, shame the employer doesn't feel the same, particularly as it's her fault!

 

Any views on whether I should hit her with, 'get lost, you agreed to terminate contract' now give Susan her £600 or she'll sue you and let everyone know why they shouldn't leave their kids at your nursery whilst I'm at it! Or just shut up and wait for the claim form, no doubt with the college fee included on it

[ericsbrother]

The employer cannot charge Susan for agency costs as they are not being borne as a result of a breach of contract but sickness. Therefore Susan should receive her full salary without any deductions. I would be looking at waiting until the notice period expires and then send a "letter before action" demanding payment for her contractual entitlement and if that is not forthcoming make a claim for breach of contract via the county court small claims procedure. Quicker and cheaper than an ET. When you can work out what was owed and what has been paid. You local CAB will probably have a lawyer working on a pro bono basis so arrange an appointment when you have all the paperwork form college and ex-employer

[maddiemay]

Hi ericsbrother

I'm sure employer will argue that Susan resigned on the Friday, but didn't get signed off until the Monday, although in Susan's favour, employer did write saying she was happy for her to work her notice......until she got the medical certificate that is!

I find it astonishing that at no time has employer asked what the problem is, obviously that's because she knew, and did nothing about it!

 

Will do as advised and wait until the 6 weeks are officially up, then seek some free legal advice, I don't think employer is going to go away without a fight!

 

Thanks guys

[ericsbrother]

Dont wait to seek the advice, it takes a while to get an appointment. The thing is, the employer cannot have it both ways. Either they accepted the resignation and that is the end of any claim by them, or they didnt and so must pay SSP and cannot claim for breach of contract as absenteeism was due to sickness. They should be forced to make up their mind and a solicitors letter will focus their attention on which they want to consider was the path followed.

[maddiemay]

Good point ericsbrother, employer has had her say, it's our turn to take back control! Will ring around tomorrow, and hopefully ruin her Christmas!

Will keep you updated, I really do appreciate you taking the time to respond, in fact I get quite excited when I see a new post on the thread!

[maddiemay]

Hi guys

Had e-mail from employer yesterday, informing Susan, wait for it ' there is no need to repay the college' didnt mention the fact she had been refunded!

This means on the next payroll run, the £567 salary will be used towards the agency staff costs, she further says she will be in touch once she has calculated the balance Susan owes her.

 

We replied, saying words to the effect of, thanks for info re college course, but we already knew our request for refund had been successful. Also there seems to still be confusion regarding my departure from your employment, either my resignation was accepted and therefore, the contract ended, and terms & conditions contained within it ceased to be enforceable, or you didn't accept it, and having provided you with evidence of my sickness, SSP should be in payment.

 

I feel sure she'll come back with something, she's not the rolling over type!

 

I didn't mention the salary, as I'm not sure if Susan is entitled to it, having resigned on the Friday, and going on sick leave on the Monday.

 

From here on in, I feel I may need help from you lovely people, so will check back before any further correspondence is sent to her.

 

I'm not usually a vindictive person, but I did gain a little satisfaction in ruining her weekend for a change!

 

Back soon!

[SweetLorraine]

Hi maddiemay,

 

do bear in mind the advice in the government and acas links contained in post #62. Susan's ex-employer is simply not allowed to make unauthorised deductions from her wages.

 

I would be inclined to add/send a brief second email asking the ex-employer for a copy of al the invoices (for the agency worker) which support the figures/deductions from Susan's salary. This doesn't mean you are accepting these costs - merely proofing them.

 

It might now be worth popping in to the local CAB or law centre to seek some face-to-face legal advice.

[maddiemay]

Susan has Dr's again on the 2nd so we'll see if we can get an appointment with a solicitor for the same day.

 

Maddie

[topcat1802]

It may be worthwhile making contact to one of the following

 

• Call us on 0300 123 3155 (Monday to Friday from 8.00am to 6.00pm).
  
• Email us at [email protected].
  
• Write to us at:
  WBHL
  Ofsted
  Piccadilly Gate
  Store Street
  Manchester M1 2WD
  

With regards to the nursery in question!

 

 

Anonymously of course!