Bristol & Sutor Over Council Tax

[brassnecked]

Ian check CAG threads as to removals of fees after complaints. As to a Reg 46 it was a suggestion, as is any advice, it is up to an OP what they do, it's their problem and money, we are here to help suggest options, no more no less. Now this has gone far enough from OP's problem and is not helpful. It is up to them how they deal with Busted & Stupor. Caggers will try to explore options without being too proscriptive, that is what we have done .

[Ian olney]

That's fine-Just try to take on board that there isn't always a solution.

 

I've never read about a removal of a fee after a complaint, let alone the removal of a fee when the bailiff has entered peacefully and the debtor has entered into a voluntary agreement. I thought by the way that you had posted, you were aware of specific cases wher this has indeed happened.

[brassnecked]

There is always a solution, just not always the one we want . My ideal solution for when the Jacobs bailiff tried to levy a car I was sat in parked on the phone opposite a debtors house, would have been to drive off and run over his foot, but as I was on the phone to the local MP at the time that wasn't an option. As he had breached DPA and addressed me as Mr XXX the debtor and had told me what he as collecting I told him I would report him.

[leeward30]

I have not sent any letters I think I went into the abyss after losing my job.

 

Ok update on this made a payment 2 days late because I had to lend the money of a family member and I have been out of job since Novemeber. I did not have the £80 a month they are demanding at the time.

 

Today I get a knock at the door one bloke saying he was with a removal team but only one bloke and charged £230 fees. Payment date is due today for the next payment but now because of various other debts I will not be able to pay.

 

Weekly debt on the dole

 

£20 rent arrears a week

£20 council tax

£10 overpayment of benefits

 

I need some advice before I go under I think this was 7.34 am this morning and my daughter started crying.

[leeward30]

I was late on a payment and paid on the 2nd of Feb and it seems strange they turned up a month later with only one man and how could he remove heavy goods. Is this another way of them getting money as he just left a letter and not asked for payment or giving us a time span.

[dx100uk]

if you've never let him in and signed a walk-in possession

been given a levy

 

then theres no such thing as £230 removal fees.

 

dx

[brassnecked]

if you've never let him in and signed a walk-in possession

been given a levy

 

then theres no such thing as £230 removal fees.

 

dx

This IS Busted & Stupid wea are talking about here, If we go back to the beginning I think there was some discussion regarding the validity of the levy they had.

[leeward30]

Thanks to everyone on here I went for it today with my council and all the advice that was giving and I got a big result.

 

£230 fee for turning up and handing over a letter now £0

 

Bill now back with council and a lower payment.

 

I hate B & S they try to bully you and they lie out there teeth.

 

I think next time anything like this happens I will not answer the door and just wave out the window.

 

What makes me sick is how can they charge £230 to hand over a letter and how many people fall for it.

 

Thanks everyone

[brassnecked]

Thanks to everyone on here I went for it today with my council and all the advice that was giving and I got a big result.

 

£230 fee for turning up and handing over a letter now £0

 

Bill now back with council and a lower payment.

 

I hate B & S they try to bully you and they lie out there teeth.

 

I think next time anything like this happens I will not answer the door and just wave out the window.

 

What makes me sick is how can they charge £230 to hand over a letter and how many people fall for it.

 

Thanks everyone

Next time they fetch up film them even with a phone to capture their threats, as they have no right to call if the council have recalled the debt, but as they are Bonkers & Stupid, or is that Stupor they may turn up with no authority hoping to get you to voluiteer to pay their non existent fees.

[leeward30]

What a nightmare.

 

The debt is still with B & S and they claim they can charge £230 still for turing up and taking no items, but handing over a removal letter. The council did not do what siad they would do, so I emailed B & S and got a reply, which is below.

 

I need something to go back with can anyone help me please and we are still waiting for the council to contact us over this matter.

 

----------------------------------------------------

 

 

 

We note your comments regarding Van/Abortive removal fee, however, the Van/Abortive Removal Fee is charged under schedule 5, located on the back of the Notice of Seizure of Goods left with the debtor at the time of the levy. It is charged for an attendance with a vehicle, with a view to removing goods (where, following the levy, goods are not removed). We are directed by the schedule to charge reasonable costs which is not the same as actual costs and the amount charged is a reasonable cost for two of our staff (one bailiff and one driver) to attend your property with a view to the removal of goods. As they are not actual costs, a breakdown can not be provided. As a company we do however have set charges of van fees, and our clients are aware of those charges and we have had no such contact from our client regarding the removal of this fee.

 

The charge has been correctly and legally incurred in line with details above and will not be removed from the account.

 

Further action will then be taken for the recovery of the sums due and, if necessary, your goods will be seized and sold in public auction. If insufficient goods are available for seizure, a report will be forwarded to the Council, who may make an application to the Magistrates’ Courts, in accordance with the regulations, for your committal to prison. Any further action will result in further charges being incurred, for which you will be responsible.

[lookinforinfo]

Are you saying that the Council have not taken back the debt? Did they say why.

 

I gather from an earlier post of yours that you have not written to the Council or B&S about the dodgy seizure and the way they lied to gain entry to your property.

 

Write to the Council [ the Head of Revenue]stating that this is a formal complaint about the bailiff and the seizure of your goods.

A he lied to gain entry

B he never went upstairs to check what was there and took your word for what was there

C some of your goods are on HP and not allowed to be seized

D most of the goods seized are of low value and/or exempt from seizure

 

so the levy was principally to garner fees for the bailiff and if you have to pay the extra £220 claimed by B&S it is going to take much longer to pay the legitimate Council tax debt.

 

Carry on to state that you are prepared to complain to the Council Ombudsman if the Council do not come back to you with an acceptable arrangement. Explain that you do want to pay the outstanding Council tax but you are having financial problems and you cannot see how the extra costs being pursued by the bailiffs are in anyone's interest except for the bailiff.

 

In addition, when the bailiff came to remove your goods he came on his own and the vehicle he came in was of insufficient size to be able to remove the seized goods and he would have been unable to remove the sofa etc on his own-so his costs are spurious.

 

Moreover, if he is going to turn up in a removal van, then the cost of the van should be itemised and so you should ask the Council to put the bailiff to strict proof that there was a removal van and the invoice for its use.

[dx100uk]

oh what the removal of goods on an invalid levy...

 

yea yea yea

 

dx

[leeward30]

Thanks for your post and the council have not taken back the debt as they said they would over the phone. Now I will do as you have said and see what happens.

 

I have rang the council many times today to see if I can speak to the same women, but she has not rang back.

 

Do I also need to send anytihng to B & S or is that just a waste of my time.

[leeward30]

I have had a reply from the council and they are prepared in writing to remove the action from B & S and have payments direct with me, but see no issues with the fees. They sent an email to B & S about my complaint and I have to wait and see what happens.

 

I have one question is the levy invalid and all fees with the item being on hp. I have found this information below.

 

---------------------------------

 

NOTE: If the levy on goods is invalid, and the bailiff has left the premises, this creates an abandoned levy. Check the list of grounds that constitutes an invalid levy

Edited March 8, 2014 by ims21

[Andy Lochead]

Without a shadow of a doubt, you need to contact B&S to obtain a breakdown of fees. This will include the date that they were incurred.

 

 

If you are correct that only 1 visit was made prior to this latest one, then £24.50 1st visit fee must be removed. In addition, so must £24.50 Head H fee. The council can take the side of the bailiffs all day long if it wishes but it exposes itself to the potential of a publicised report from the LGO as there is only 1 way that an investigation carried out by them will go.

 

 

I suspect that the £230 ATR fee consists of £180 for the visit & £50 "waiting time". Certainly as no goods were removed, there is no justification in charging waiting time so this figure should also be removed. I have my doubts whether the £180 can be removed though. (of course I'm only surmising what B&S have charged for the ATR fee)

 

 

B&S are also incorrect in their interpretation of schedule 5. The fees DO NOT allow for "reasonable costs", they allow for "reasonable costs INCURRED" this also ought to be stated.

[renegadeimp]

lets not use that site mmkay.

[leeward30]

lets not use that site mmkay.

 

ok I will not.

[leeward30]

I need some help asap please becasue I got a response from the balliffs.

 

 

A he lied to gain entry - (They said I had to prove this).

 

B he never went upstairs to check what was there and took your word for what was there - (They said the balliff must be able to physically touch them the inventory is not elaborate and the baliff has nothing to gain by not entering the room and checking the goods).

 

C some of your goods are on HP and not allowed to be seized - (Why did we not mention the goods were on HP and the seizure was done on the 13/11/2013 and this is the first mention that any goods seized are on HP). Furthermore you signed the walking possession agreement stating the goods belonged to you. Notwithstanding this we would invite you to send in proof regarding the item so we can review the inventory.

 

D most of the goods seized are of low value and/or exempt from seizure - There is no minimum amount that goods must accumulate to in order for us to levy and you did sign the walkign possession agreement.

 

E He took no make or model numbers of my goods - This is not done as standard on household goods.

 

£230 fee is not for the levy that took place but for the visit with a view to removing goods. The levy was not done to garner fees it was done to secure goods against the debt and to be able to enter into an agreement with you.

 

You mention the vehicle the balliff attended in to the remove goods was not sufficient, however there is a no law to say what type of vehicle the balliff must attend in. Had the balliff chosen to remove goods he could called for a contractor to assit him, the cost of which have been added to your account.

 

As your wife stated she would try and raise the funds the balliff agreed to not remove the goods and allow her time. You are liable to pay the outstanding fee and this will not be removed.

[renegadeimp]

Bailiffs lying again. What a surprise.

[leeward30]

Bailiffs lying again. What a surprise.

 

What is my step of action?

 

Also I have an email saying the costs were for a balliff and a driver ie van costs and in the letter they state he was by himself.

 

We note your comments regarding Van/Abortive removal fee,

 

however, the Van/Abortive Removal Fee is charged under schedule 5,

located on the back of the Notice of Seizure of Goods left with the debtor at the time of the levy.

 

It is charged for an attendance with a vehicle, with a view to removing goods (where, following the levy, goods are not removed).

 

We are directed by the schedule to charge reasonable costs which is not the same as actual costs

and the amount charged is a reasonable cost for two of our staff (one bailiff and one driver)

to attend your property with a view to the removal of goods.

 

As they are not actual costs, a breakdown can not be provided.

 

As a company we do however have set charges of van fees,

and our clients are aware of those charges

and we have had no such contact from our client regarding the removal of this fee.

 

The charge has been correctly and legally incurred in line with details above and will not be removed from the account.

[leeward30]

This has been to the council and B & S. I feel I am being ripped off £230.

[renegadeimp]

Sit tight and the regulars will be along soon. They will be able to tell you EXACTLY what the bailiff can and cannot do. Remember, Bailiffs lie. Always. They become bailiffs because they can potentially make thousands for no work, so it is in their interests to lie to get more money from people.

[leeward30]

Sit tight and the regulars will be along soon. They will be able to tell you EXACTLY what the bailiff can and cannot do. Remember, Bailiffs lie. Always. They become bailiffs because they can potentially make thousands for no work, so it is in their interests to lie to get more money from people.

 

Thankyou it is very stressful and just becasue they think thery got power and write powerful letters does not mean they are right.

[renegadeimp]

Thats what bailiffs do. As i said, keep your cool and the regulars will be around soon, normally when theyve finished their day jobs or later in the evening.

[dx100uk]

What is my step of action?

 

Also I have an email saying the costs were for a balliff and a driver ie van costs and in the letter they state he was by himself.

 

We note your comments regarding Van/Abortive removal fee,

 

however, the Van/Abortive Removal Fee is charged under schedule 5,

located on the back of the Notice of Seizure of Goods left with the debtor at the time of the levy.

 

It is charged for an attendance with a vehicle, with a view to removing goods (where, following the levy, goods are not removed).

 

We are directed by the schedule to charge reasonable costs which is not the same as actual costs

and the amount charged is a reasonable cost for two of our staff (one bailiff and one driver)

to attend your property with a view to the removal of goods. - they cant charge ANYTHING for reasonable costs under CTAX rules

 

As they are not actual costs, a breakdown can not be provided. - yes it can

As a company we do however have set charges of van fees,

and our clients are aware of those charges

and we have had no such contact from our client regarding the removal of this fee. - but not for CTAX

The charge has been correctly and legally incurred in line with details above and will not be removed from the account.

 

and ofcourse the levy was invalid anyhow?

 

dx