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Pension Credit and Winter Fuel Payment


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As i said I went to the yougov benefits advisor and your figures do not add up. In addition there is no mobility component for AA and it is said that you need to be more poorly to get AA than you do DLA. I am not sure if you know that the disability premium you get if you are on middle rate DLA is paid to you if you do not have a carer but you lose it if a carer claims it.

 

By the way carers allowance is a taxable benefit that is taken away from any other means tested benefits. I think you may have misunderstood the way payments are made.

Edited by fletch70

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Brigadier, hell must be freezing over lol

 

I totally agree with you, I would also like to say that getting awarded AA is far from easy.

 

I also suggest that the figures don't add up. I have just used the government benefits advisor and the figures are much lower even with AA

 

We have been through this so many times as my wifes condition has worsened and are turned down at every attempt AA is hellish hard to get on that you are totally correct Fletch!

 

I also cannot match the figures stated at all!!

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Can you please provide a link to the page you used. I was using the direct gov site

 

http://www.entitledto.co.uk/calculator/

 

There you go, just make sure that you answer the questions correctly using the info I gave for this hypothetical couple.

 

Couple both over 65 - say both born on the 1/1/1944

Both receive the lowest rate of Attendance Allowance

Both claim Carers Allowance for each other but it is not paid due to 'overlapping' rules.

One receives £110 a week State Pension, and the other £65 a week.

NO other income, savings under £10,000 and no other assets.

Rent payable £90 a week for a 1 bed flat.

 

The 'maximisation' rules are that either AA must be awarded at any rate for both of the couple or indeed the middle or higher rates of care for both. Mobility doesn't feature as it is of no benefit when trying to maximise the income. It is the use of the 'passport' onto other benefits that is important.

 

I would mention that I have also done the same calculation but with ony one of the couple claiming Attendance Allowance and the other claiming, but not getting paid, Carers Allowance.

This produces a figure of: Pension Credit £80.35 + 2 x pension £175.00 + 1 x AA £53.00, making ££308.35 a week. A reduction of £205.30 a week because only one of the couple receives AA. You can see how important it is to ensure that an award for AA is made.

Edited by silverlight
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I have tried various permutations and can get nothing like your figures. Under £400 per week for the couple +HB and CTB. Not exactly a goldmine. Remember as well you have to be cared for pretty much full time and if you are in receipt of AA I doubt very much you would be able to

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Of course if you do not vote I do not see how you can complain about how the government acts as you have opted out of the democratic system

That is total and utter rubbish. Not voting is still voicing an opinion.

Please tell me how when voting at the last election we get lumbered with the clowns now sitting in the Cabinet room?. I didnt vote for the Conservatives, I didnt vote for a coalition, yet we are now lumbered with known and outed liars running the country. It is totally undemocratic.

I will never ever vote again and I would strongly suggest others refrain from voting.

A vote for any party is now a wasted vote.

 

Suppose they had an election and NO ONE voted?

Taking a poke at the world

 

Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience

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I thought to get AA, you needed help for most of the day or night - ie, the criteria is the same as DLA.

 

I have to admit I have never understood why winter fuel payments aren't paid to younger disabled people. Many need the heating on almost all day, they might be housebound, not able to walk far, etc.

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I have tried various permutations and can get nothing like your figures. Under £400 per week for the couple +HB and CTB. Not exactly a goldmine. Remember as well you have to be cared for pretty much full time and if you are in receipt of AA I doubt very much you would be able to

 

Do it in a simpler way then.

 

Appropriate Amount under Pension Credit

 

Couple rate £222.05

Couple severe Disability Premium (both claiming any rate of AA) £119.00

Carers Allowance Premium x2 (not being paid owing to overlapping rules) £66.60

 

Total minimum amount required to live on £407.65 per week

 

 

DEDUCT Income received

 

State Pension £110.00 + £65.00 = £175.00

Attendance Allowance is not counted as income.

 

Pension Credit payable £407.65 - £175.00 = £232.65 a week

 

Add

Attendance Allowance 2 x £53.00 = £106.00

State Retirement Pensions £175.00

 

TOTAL WEEKLY INCOME £232.65 + £106.00 + £175.00 = £513.65 per week

 

No you need not be that disabled. Many are awarded it because they have some difficulties that arise during the day, but not all day or night.

 

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Lets%20Talk%20Money/LTM%20Attendance%20Allowance%20Leaflet.pdf?dtrk=true

 

Each can claim Carers Allowance for each other because they care. They need do no more than offer emotional help, talk and advise, maybe some physical help. Time spent driving to and from is counted as are telephone calls made when you are not physically there. The vast number claim because they offer each other emotional help and support only.

Edited by silverlight
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That is total and utter rubbish. Not voting is still voicing an opinion.

Please tell me how when voting at the last election we get lumbered with the clowns now sitting in the Cabinet room?. I didnt vote for the Conservatives, I didnt vote for a coalition, yet we are now lumbered with known and outed liars running the country. It is totally undemocratic.

I will never ever vote again and I would strongly suggest others refrain from voting.

A vote for any party is now a wasted vote.

 

Suppose they had an election and NO ONE voted?

 

It's called an abstention - something that our beloved politicians do when they don't feel that it is right to say yes or no.

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I thought to get AA, you needed help for most of the day or night - ie, the criteria is the same as DLA.

 

I have to admit I have never understood why winter fuel payments aren't paid to younger disabled people. Many need the heating on almost all day, they might be housebound, not able to walk far, etc.

 

No far from it, AA is far easier to prove and get, over DLA. The lowest rate of AA is the same as Mid rate care - DLA.

For a start you need have no medical problems except for having the normal problems of being old. Attendance Allowance is awarded entirely because of old age itself. You become slower, less mobile indoors, stairs can become a problem as can getting in and out of a bath. Fastening buttons, zips and shoes have their own difficulties - all of which are allowed for within AA.

 

In my opinion the Winter Fuel should be scrapped altogether especially with the many ways that you can budget your money. Not that many actually use the allowance for the purposes it was originally given. If they pay a fixed rate each week/month for their fuel, the extra £200 is no longer needed as there won't be a big bill for the winter to find the money for.

 

Some on here have actually admitted that they use it for Christmas presents and the Christmas food bill!

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Do it in a simpler way then.

 

Appropriate Amount under Pension Credit

 

Couple rate £222.05

Couple severe Disability Premium (both claiming any rate of AA) £119.00

Carers Allowance Premium x2 (not being paid owing to overlapping rules) £66.60This is in fact then 0 not 66.50

 

Total minimum amount required to live on £407.65 per week

 

 

DEDUCT Income received

 

State Pension £110.00 + £65.00 = £175.00

Attendance Allowance is not counted as income.

 

Pension Credit payable £407.65 - £175.00 = £232.65 a week

 

Add

Attendance Allowance 2 x £53.00 = £106.00

State Retirement Pensions £175.00

 

TOTAL WEEKLY INCOME £232.65 + £106.00 + £175.00 = £513.65 per week Actually 447.05

 

No you need not be that disabled. Many are awarded it because they have some difficulties that arise during the day, but not all day or night.

 

http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Lets%20Talk%20Money/LTM%20Attendance%20Allowance%20Leaflet.pdf?dtrk=true

 

Each can claim Carers Allowance for each other because they care. They need do no more than offer emotional help, talk and advise, maybe some physical help. Time spent driving to and from is counted as are telephone calls made when you are not physically there. The vast number claim because they offer each other emotional help and support only.

 

I am sorry but your whole argument is flawed. To get lower rate you need help for most of the day or night. The criteria are higher than DLA . You only need to look to see how difficult it is to get DLA to see it is no walk in the park.

We are not talking about mild old age things here we are talking real disability and care needs. You are making it sound as if every person who reaches retirement qualifies which is complete twaddle

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Those people who use it for Christmas don't represent every single pensioner though.

 

I appreciate that it doesn't, but by admitting that this is what they are doing is actually playing right into the hands of the government. I don't blame taxpayers for being annoyed when they read what is happening with some.

 

Maybe some middle ground does have to be sought - maybe it is only paid for those over state pension age that receive Guaranteed Pension Credit AND NO Savings Credit.

Even after having said that, some, not all, but a sizeable number of these pensioners will be receiving up to £500 a week via GPC!

Maybe the answer is to remove the payment altogether.

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I am sorry but your whole argument is flawed. To get lower rate you need help for most of the day or night. The criteria are higher than DLA . You only need to look to see how difficult it is to get DLA to see it is no walk in the park.

We are not talking about mild old age things here we are talking real disability and care needs. You are making it sound as if every person who reaches retirement qualifies which is complete twaddle

 

It certainly isn't flawed. It is well known amongst Welfare Rights professionals that AA is far easier to get than what Mid care DLA was.

 

I am aware of one in particular pensioner who is now 68 and was awarded the day and night rate of AA on the basis of arthritis which was not so debilitating that she needed a carer or that help was needed for most of the day or night. Yes it was a problem that caused difficulties with getting in and out of the bath, getting in and out of bed, fastening clothes and shoes etc. The claimant in question asked for a self referred Social Services report which was carried out and which was sent to the DWP. On the strength of that the award was given.

Medically there is nothing wrong with her and the only medication taken is Paracetamol.

The lady in question is fully able to mobilise outdoors and enjoys an active retirement and happens to be my sister!

 

If she had to claim DLA I doubt that given the same situation she would get the lower rate for care if that.

 

Have you read the link I gave to AgeUK? http://www.ageuk.org.uk/Documents/EN-GB/Lets%20Talk%20Money/LTM%20Attendance%20Allowance%20Leaflet.pdf?dtrk=true

Edited by silverlight
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Well I think you will find that the system has been abused, maybe by the social worker , maybe by your sister and that puts you in a difficult position.

 

You maths certainly is flawed

 

Oh and BTW I had grandparents who got AA when in a nursing home and a wife who got DLA lower rate mobility and middle rate care....she would have appealed but was too scared of losing what she had

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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I appreciate that it doesn't, but by admitting that this is what they are doing is actually playing right into the hands of the government. I don't blame taxpayers for being annoyed when they read what is happening with some.

 

Maybe some middle ground does have to be sought - maybe it is only paid for those over state pension age that receive Guaranteed Pension Credit AND NO Savings Credit.

Even after having said that, some, not all, but a sizeable number of these pensioners will be receiving up to £500 a week via GPC!

Maybe the answer is to remove the payment altogether.

 

This 500 pw figure is rubbish. Where do your figures come from, what is a sizeable number

As I said, my wife who was a pensioner received state pension middle rate care lower rate mobility and pension credit, he income was just over £200 pw . She was so seriously disabled that she only left the bungalow in a taxi , I did all her shopping , she needed home help but was too proud to ask .

 

before you ask, she was my wife because we never divorced but were separated because I am one of them!

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Well I think you will find that the system has been abused, maybe by the social worker , maybe by your sister and that puts you in a difficult position.

 

You maths certainly is flawed

 

Oh and BTW I had grandparents who got AA when in a nursing home and a wife who got DLA lower rate mobility and middle rate care....she would have appealed but was too scared of losing what she had

 

Oh I see, the Social Worker, the OT and the County Council are all involved in a benefit fraud conspiracy with my sister? Yeah they must be.

 

As for my mathematics, I stand by every single figure. I have spent my entire working life of 44 years playing with figures as a qualified accountant.

The problem maybe is that you just don't understand the mathematics behind the calculations - that isn't my fault.

 

The art behind benefit claims is to produce evidence that is indisputable by the DWP. Asking a GP or Consultant to write a report is a waste of my time and theirs. A report from the OT who works for the County Council carries a lot more weight when dealing with DLA of AA as would a report from a CPN/OT if mental health is an issue.

 

You should never be scared of putting in an appeal if you have the proper evidence that would support your appeal and blow the backside off any report that the DWP may want to get. At best with AA & DLA claims the DWP will generally take the easy option and go for a GP report. You know that it will either be rubbish at worst or at best, partially helpful.

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This 500 pw figure is rubbish. Where do your figures come from, what is a sizeable number

As I said, my wife who was a pensioner received state pension middle rate care lower rate mobility and pension credit, he income was just over £200 pw . She was so seriously disabled that she only left the bungalow in a taxi , I did all her shopping , she needed home help but was too proud to ask .

 

before you ask, she was my wife because we never divorced but were separated because I am one of them!

 

The £500 relates to a couple who are 65+ and both get the lowest rate of AA, and receive a total of £175 state pension between them. You will find the calculations in another of my post elsewhere.

 

The current position of what your wife would have received today would have been a minimum weekly income of £278.90.

Additionally there would have been no Council Tax to pay and she would have received maximum Housing Benefit or up to £69.81 a week towards the interest on a mortgage.

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Your maths was flawed because you included the carers allowance but said it wasn't being paid . As I said I used the benefits advisor gov site to get my figures

 

Thank you

 

No sorry you are wrong, I did not include any payment for Carers Allowance. Carers Allowance has been claimed but because it is countered by the State Pensions (underlying entitlement only), whereas the Carers Premium is instead payable which makes up the 'Appropriate Amount' for Pension Credit purposes. You have to be careful when you claim Carers Allowance to make sure that they are both given as an underlying entitlement only otherwise it would cause the Severe Disability Premium of £119.00 a week to be removed.

Like I said before you have to know how one benefit would react with others as claiming the wrong benefit can lead to an overall reduction in income which is not what you want. It's called maximisation.

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And you I think are called Andy , the well known internet forum troll as far as I can see from your posts.

 

Yeah. Time, gentlemen, please.

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