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Pension Credit and Winter Fuel Payment


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I'm on Pension credit and ESA. Last week I got a letter from the Pensions service advising me of a Winter Fuel Payment of £200. I thought it was probably a mistake but, lo and behold, on checking my account this morning I have £200 deposited!!

I thought the WFP was £135 not £200??

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£200 used to be enough, but my heating costs are £100 per month, we have far more than 2 months of cold weather. I have propane gas and have no other choice as I live on a park home site. Park homes are very hard to heat and I am really struggling live on pension credit. Sat here in a hat and blanket, life sucks at times :!:

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Many thanks for all those comments.

Our house is all electric, and we have got our total Electric bill down to around £75 a month balanced out over the whole year. Fortunatley we live in a semi where the neighbours have their heating right up and the heat warms our living room !!.

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Many thanks for all those comments.

Our house is all electric, and we have got our total Electric bill down to around £75 a month balanced out over the whole year. Fortunatley we live in a semi where the neighbours have their heating right up and the heat warms our living room !!.

 

We have dual fuel and our annual bill is a shade under £1200. We pay £105 a month via DD. Personally I don't understand why these winter fuel payments are being made.

All you have to do, no matter what your heating provision is, gas, electric, oil, LPG, coal etc., is add up what you used last year (bad & long winter) + say 8% on top and divide that amount by 12. As long as you put that money aside each month or pay it to the provider then there will be no nasty surprises later on.

 

If you budget properly as you should be doing in any event, there is no need for these payments.

 

I am fully aware that of my friends and acquaintances, very few actually spend it on fuel costs, it is either added to the general income pot or put aside for Christmas. Sorry, but this is one benefit that has me completely flumexted.

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We have dual fuel and our annual bill is a shade under £1200. We pay £105 a month via DD. Personally I don't understand why these winter fuel payments are being made.

All you have to do, no matter what your heating provision is, gas, electric, oil, LPG, coal etc., is add up what you used last year (bad & long winter) + say 8% on top and divide that amount by 12. As long as you put that money aside each month or pay it to the provider then there will be no nasty surprises later on.

 

If you budget properly as you should be doing in any event, there is no need for these payments.

 

I am fully aware that of my friends and acquaintances, very few actually spend it on fuel costs, it is either added to the general income pot or put aside for Christmas. Sorry, but this is one benefit that has me completely flumexted.

 

We pay £85 per month and have electric only and we have to watch the meter to avoid going over by too much so the £200 is welcome. Yes we do put it aside for Xmas but that is because we have not been able to save anything in the past 11 months due to high utility charges so it is a welcome relief. Works out at less than £20 per month over 12 months.

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We pay £85 per month and have electric only and we have to watch the meter to avoid going over by too much so the £200 is welcome. Yes we do put it aside for Xmas but that is because we have not been able to save anything in the past 11 months due to high utility charges so it is a welcome relief. Works out at less than £20 per month over 12 months.

 

I wish I had the money to budget with, I had been paying the company, Calor gas £72 per month, then recently they hit me with the fact that I still owed them £599, needless to say I was quite shocked as I just don't have that kind of money spare.

 

I am not a (WE) I love on my own, but my utility bills are the same as if there were 2 of us living here. I cook mostly by slow cooker for the freezer, live in one room until the evening, but park home/mobile are not as well insulated as one would expect, and the cost to insulate them further is beyond me.

 

I need the £200 winter fuel payment, it helps me at what is a very lean time, not just me but for a lot of elderly folks out there.

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I wish I had the money to budget with, I had been paying the company, Calor gas £72 per month, then recently they hit me with the fact that I still owed them £599, needless to say I was quite shocked as I just don't have that kind of money spare.

 

I am not a (WE) I love on my own, but my utility bills are the same as if there were 2 of us living here. I cook mostly by slow cooker for the freezer, live in one room until the evening, but park home/mobile are not as well insulated as one would expect, and the cost to insulate them further is beyond me.

 

I need the £200 winter fuel payment, it helps me at what is a very lean time, not just me but for a lot of elderly folks out there.

 

Are the windows on your Park Home double glazed?

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Yes we do put it aside for Xmas but that is because we have not been able to save anything in the past 11 months.

 

But then isn't that a personal choice? It certainly wasn't the intention of the government for people to use it in that way.

There are many that have little or no money for Christmas and would be rightly annoyed that you are using the payment for the reason you mention.

 

When I used to live on my own many moons ago, one Christmas dinner consisted of sausages and chips! I had no presents given to me and couldn't afford to buy any to give either. I did however cheat and went to the pub for a pint at lunchtime and took with me a small plastic bottle that I poured a whisky into to have it later after my lunch.

 

To use the Winter Fuel Payment to pay for presents and a meal is in my opinion rather immoral.

 

Incidentally we donate ours to AgeUK every year for those that do actually need help.

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Yeah I bet all those MPs' who are claiming heating allowances for their second homes donate theirs as well :mad2:

 

It doesn't really matter what they do does it? You could very well ask what the ex pats abroad do with their payments?

 

It is all down to an individual's conscience. There will be many that wouldn't dream of giving anything away and them knowing that they don't need the money, and you will have pensioners that always think of others over themselves at Christmas time and will give their last penny away.

 

People have to live with their conscience. We couldn't imagine being that mean. Only this evening my wife has donated £100 to the Philippines Disaster Fund. She told me that the weekend away will have to take second place when compared to how those people are suffering - and I have to agree with her.

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So money's no longer fungible?

 

I'd imagine what most people who need their WFP spend it on is fuel, possibly by running the heating more than they otherwise would.

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I do not think there is a fair and cheap way to pay winter fuel payments. If it was only paid to people on guaranteed pension credit it would be unfair on those who are low income but just above that limit. If it were means tested and you had to apply , lots of people who need it wouldn't apply and the cost of admin would be prohibitive.

In the great scheme of things it is not a great deal of money , if you wish to give it to charity then that's your choice. Many people who say they use it for xmas are in all likely hood just robbing peter to pay paul...its all in the accounting

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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I do not think there is a fair and cheap way to pay winter fuel payments. If it was only paid to people on guaranteed pension credit it would be unfair on those who are low income but just above that limit. If it were means tested and you had to apply , lots of people who need it wouldn't apply and the cost of admin would be prohibitive.

In the great scheme of things it is not a great deal of money , if you wish to give it to charity then that's your choice. Many people who say they use it for xmas are in all likely hood just robbing peter to pay paul...its all in the accounting

 

'It's not a great deal of money'? It's a drain on precious resources that this country can ill afford!

 

I would agree that it is important if it was used to pay for additional heating in the winter but it isn't. Most people now have their dual fuel paid for by equal monthly payments. Whether it is in the heat of summer or in the depth of winter, the monthly payment still remains the same. People have budgeted for that monthly amount.

 

Then I think along the lines of if that is the case, what do they need another £200 for? They are already paying for what they use each month.

 

Then I hear that the majority use it for the extras at Christmas - as if that won't cause an uproar!

 

I'm sorry but I am normally a very fair person, but to use what was originally given to support the extra cost of winter heating when monthly budgeting was not around as much to buy a few more Xmas presents, a bigger turkey or maybe put it towards the summer holiday is one sure way of annoying those that pay for this payment. Personally I think that it should be scrapped along with the £10 Christmas Bonus as it has run it's course of it only being used for paying for the extra fuel in the winter.

 

I find it embarrassing to receive it when we don't need it and can't/aren't allowed to send it back and look at my children's husbands' who work and pay the tax just so that it can be handed out to us. We aren't rich by any stretch of the imagination, but our winter fuel costs are already covered to a certain degree as our fuel account is always well in credit at this time of the year (currently just over two months in credit - £237).

 

If they are robbing Peter to pay Paul and need the £200 to 'balance the books' then their budgeting skills need a little attention as they are relying on something that is not being used for the purposes of what it was designed for.

 

As my father used to tell me - wage £10, expenses £9.99 = happiness, wage £10, expenses £10.05 = misery!

Edited by silverlight
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You can, actually, send back your WFP if you don't want it. It's not straightforward, but the DWP does accept a return if you want to.

 

Granted, if you call up the helpline they'll speak to you like you've grown another head. Just send it as a gift to HM Treasury.

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Silverlight

With respect I do not think you are really aware of the real world.

You talk about people being on fixed monthly DD, great idea but frankly not always possible. What about prepayment meters?

There are over 1million pensioners on pension credit (source age UK)

 

You are very fortunate that you have the choice between donating £100 and having a weekend away, lots of people would love to be in that position.

You talk about budgeting skills, so tell me how to you learn those, who teaches them.

The winter fuel allownace was brought in by the last labour government who did a huge amount to help the poorer pensioners in this country , the amount has been reduced and no doubt will be abolished by a government who are more concerned with creating wealth for the rich than helping the less fortunate/able.

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Silverlight

With respect I do not think you are really aware of the real world.

You talk about people being on fixed monthly DD, great idea but frankly not always possible. What about prepayment meters?

There are over 1million pensioners on pension credit (source age UK)

 

You are very fortunate that you have the choice between donating £100 and having a weekend away, lots of people would love to be in that position.

You talk about budgeting skills, so tell me how to you learn those, who teaches them.

The winter fuel allownace was brought in by the last labour government who did a huge amount to help the poorer pensioners in this country , the amount has been reduced and no doubt will be abolished by a government who are more concerned with creating wealth for the rich than helping the less fortunate/able.

 

Thank you, I am fully aware of the 'real' world. I just have a problem with people who use the WFA for reasons other than that it was intended for.

 

Budgeting is as I have mentioned before, is that you estimate what your total fuel cost is for the year and divide it by 12 or 52. Each week or month you either pay that amount to the fuel provider or put it on the cards for the meter. You will build up a credit in the summer which will be used in the winter. As an example if the total is £1400 you would put say £20 on the gas card and £10 on the electricity key every week. Doing it that way you would have no worries over a high bill in the winter and consequently not need the £200.

 

As for pensioners being poor, if that is the case then those under 62 would be extremely poor! Someone (a couple) under 62 and over 18 would be expected to live on a minimum of £112.55 a week, whereas someone (a couple) over 62 would get a minimum of £222.05 - an increase of £109.50 a week. In fact most 'pensioners' over 62 could well see their minimum weekly payments be up to £500+ a week depending on the extra premiums that they could claim.

 

As for your final paragraph, I don't go in for commenting on political points of view, I don't believe in politics, never voted and never will. I have yet to meet any politician that doesn't have an ulterior motive behind everything they say and/or do. I just let them get on with it.

 

As for the wealth of the country, what I would say is that without wealthy businessmen there wouldn't be any jobs.

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I am not quite sure how you come up with the £500 a week unless you are talking about severally disabled people who's living expenses are by definition much higher. Either that or you have bought into the DM right wing shouting.

 

We could of course go into a long political debate but I don't see any need all I will say is that I wasn't talking just about business men but you have to realise that everyone who works contributes. The guy that collects the rubbish has just as much a role to play as a brain surgeon.

 

Pensioners are a political force to be reckoned with which is probably why they have not been touched by the benefits freeze.

Just as an aside, a single person gets £71 per week for JSA, this went up by 1% when inflation was 5%. So they were already worse off, on top of that they have now to contribute to council tax. Now remember that JSA was set at a subsistence level and the true cost of inflation for those on low incomes is actually much higher (fuel/Food being their two main expenses)

 

Of course if you do not vote I do not see how you can complain about how the government acts as you have opted out of the democratic system

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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I am not quite sure how you come up with the £500 a week unless you are talking about severally disabled people who's living expenses are by definition much higher. Either that or you have bought into the DM right wing shouting.

 

We could of course go into a long political debate but I don't see any need all I will say is that I wasn't talking just about business men but you have to realise that everyone who works contributes. The guy that collects the rubbish has just as much a role to play as a brain surgeon.

 

Pensioners are a political force to be reckoned with which is probably why they have not been touched by the benefits freeze.

Just as an aside, a single person gets £71 per week for JSA, this went up by 1% when inflation was 5%. So they were already worse off, on top of that they have now to contribute to council tax. Now remember that JSA was set at a subsistence level and the true cost of inflation for those on low incomes is actually much higher (fuel/Food being their two main expenses)

 

Of course if you do not vote I do not see how you can complain about how the government acts as you have opted out of the democratic system

 

I don't read the DM, in fact I don't bother reading any newspaper - they are either generally full of doom and gloom or washing other people's dirty laundry in public.

 

A 'pensioner' (over 62) need not be severely disabled to gain additional premiums. When looking at Attendance Allowance it is sufficient to show some needs that arise purely out of age with no medical complications. Mild arthritis would create the needs to qualify.

 

Those on the lowest level of AA will receive an additional £53 a week. This is paid in recognition of those extra needs. Yet if both of the couple claim it for an age related reason they will receive an additional £106 a week combined.

 

They are then entitled to claim Carers Allowance for caring for each other.

 

And if they receive a means tested benefit (Pension Credit) they will receive another disability premium of £119.00 a week because they each receive any level of AA???

Why I don't know, they have already been compensated for their needs by receiving the £106 a week via Attendance Allowance. Additionally by claiming Carers Allowance they would receive between them another £66.60 a week.

 

So the minimum of £202.05 is increased by £106.00 (AA), £119.00 (Premium) and £66.60 (CA) making a total of £493.65 a week. If they were awarded the higher rate of AA each, another £52.30 a week making £545.95 a week!

 

To say that pensioners are in poverty is something that most people believe but it is not true. Yes there are some, but the majority of 'pensioner' couples enjoy an income of somewhere between £202 and £545 a week, not forgetting that they will have no liability to Council Tax, receive full Housing Benefit as well as considerable help towards health costs.

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Personally I cannot see that 'silverlight' has any justification on commenting on this or any subject regarding benefits paid by any Government as they have stated that they have 'opted out' of the democratic processes of the UK having never voted and stating they never will!!

My wife suffers from severe osteoarthritis and has difficulty in standing and walking, together with problems with manual dexterity, we have been told that there are no benefits or 'premiums' as you call them available to her.

 

Frankly your stance is complete nonsense.

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Brigadier, hell must be freezing over lol

 

I totally agree with you, I would also like to say that getting awarded AA is far from easy.

 

I also suggest that the figures don't add up. I have just used the government benefits advisor and the figures are much lower even with AA

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Personally I cannot see that 'silverlight' has any justification on commenting on this or any subject regarding benefits paid by any Government as they have stated that they have 'opted out' of the democratic processes of the UK having never voted and stating they never will!!

My wife suffers from severe osteoarthritis and has difficulty in standing and walking, together with problems with manual dexterity, we have been told that there are no benefits or 'premiums' as you call them available to her.

 

Frankly your stance is complete nonsense.

 

No justification? Maybe not, but I certainly have an opinion born out of experience and personal knowledge. Having a view on political justifications is not helpful, not without quantifiable examples and evidence.

 

Might I suggest that you read a little more on the ins and outs of the legislation and case law. Benefits that relate to sickness and/or disability are in the main, Attendance Allowance, PIP, DLA, ESA and IIDB. Get to grips with how these benefits interact with others and you will discover a whole new world of what people call 'Maximisation'.

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Brigadier, hell must be freezing over lol

 

I totally agree with you, I would also like to say that getting awarded AA is far from easy.

 

I also suggest that the figures don't add up. I have just used the government benefits advisor and the figures are much lower even with AA

 

In which case you have either made an error or the system you are using is not up to date.

 

Go to 'Entitled to' and put in the following info:

 

Couple both over 65 - say both born on the 1/1/1944

Both receive the lowest rate of Attendance Allowance

Both claim Carers Allowance for each other but it is not paid due to 'overlapping' rules.

One receives £110 a week State Pension, and the other £65 a week.

NO other income, savings under £10,000 and no other assets.

 

The result will look like this:

 

 

Means-tested income entitlements

 

Pension Credit-Guarantee Credit £12,097.80 £232.65 Pension Credit consists of two parts – a guarantee element and a savings credit element. This line is provided for information.

 

Pension Credit-Savings Credit £0.00 £0.00 Pension Credit consists of two parts – a guarantee element and a savings credit element. This line is provided for information.

 

Pension Credit £12,097.80 £232.65 Pension Credit Award.

 

Means-tested bill reductions Council Tax Support £1,030.86 £19.77 You should not have to pay Council Tax as you qualify for full Council Tax Support.

 

Housing Benefit £4,680.00 £90.00 You should not have to pay rent as you qualify for full Housing Benefit.

For more information on what qualifies see eligible rent for Housing Benefit.

 

Total Entitlements £17,808.66 £342.42

 

 

So the total weekly income is made up of Pension Credit £232.65 + 2 x State Pensions £175.00 + 2 x Attendance Allowance £106.00

 

total weekly income of £513.65

Edited by silverlight
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