400,000 people had their Jobseekers sanctioned

[estellyn]

Hi estellyn,

sometime back I was in a job where I was told to ignore well-known H&S rules. I said no and was told to “Get a grip” or leave.

 

I did leave.

 

Did it help the staff that I had to protect? No.

Did it cause the company any trouble? No. They just hired someone else.

Did it cause me loss of income? Yes.

Did I sleep well at night? Yes.

I think there is a right path for all people.

I can look myself in the mirror knowing I've not hurt or put anyone a risk just to draw a salary.

Best regards,

pitcher

(Thanks for the edit, who ever you may be, I did not want to offend)

 

 

 

You have every right to make that choice. But personally I can't find it in myself to condemn people who look at their children and want to protect them from their home being repossessed and having to spend an extended period living in a dodgy bed and breakfast, having to eat whatever food can be had from the food bank etc. I don't blame the individual when the policy is set by managers. There will always be those individuals that get pleasure from inflicting difficulties or pain on others, and that is something else entirely. But I suspect there are other generally good DWP employees who feel very trapped by the situation.

[worried33]

I did read that - it's pretty bad. As the CPAG guy pointed out, if sanctions were really effective, there'd be fewer of them, not more.

 

As to how JCP staff sleep at night, well, would you prefer that they all walked out and that there was no-one to pay benefits? How would that be a help to claimants?

 

I am sure not all JCP staff are bad, I imagine they fall into one of these 3 groups.

 

1 - Idiots, who fall for the propoganda and try to be bad to claimants.

2 - Staff who havent fallen for the propoganda but unwillingly sanction X amount of people to keep in the manager's good books and preserve their own job.

3 - Staff who rebel against DWP policy due to their principles and probably get harrased by the manager and other staff for it.

 

I have taken this look at JSA and sanctions now.

 

I dont think people should be able to ride the system doing nothing at all and still get their JSA, however I do think people need to be treated with respect and similiar to how they would be in a job.

 

So lets say i have a job and I pull a sickie because the night before I got drunk etc. Quite common event.

A employer likely discipline you or just let you off. Whatever they decide the only wages you lose is probably for the day you didnt go in. If an employer decided to not pay someone for 3 months and then they was told they still had to work, how many of these people would still turn up for work? not very many I expect.

Edited November 28, 2013 by worried33

[Perseus1]

I am sure not all JCP staff are bad, I imagine they fall into one of these 3 groups.

 

1 - Idiots, who fall for the propoganda and try to be bad to claimants.

2 - Staff who havent fallen for the propoganda but unwillingly sanction X amount of people to keep in the manager's good books and preserve their own job.

3 - Staff who rebel against DWP policy due to their principles and probably get harrased by the manager and other staff for it.

 

I have taken this look at JSA and sanctions now.

 

I dont think people should be able to ride the system doing nothing at all and still get their JSA, however I do think people need to be treated with respect and similiar to how they would be in a job.

 

So lets say i have a job and I pull a sickie because the night before I got drunk etc. Quite common event.

A employer likely discipline you or just let you off. Whatever they decide the only wages you lose is probably for the day you didnt go in. If an employer decided to not pay someone for 3 months and then they was told they still had to work, how many of these people would still turn up for work? not very many I expect.

 

I never met a Job Centre staff member who is an idiot. Some clients though.

 

General staff members do seem to be typical bureaucrats, for good or bad.

[Chester6]

I never met a Job Centre staff member who is an idiot. Some clients though.

 

General staff members do seem to be typical bureaucrats, for good or bad.

I have met a few

All PWP ones which says a lot about PWP to me and nothing good

[antone]

Well, I like to think I wasn't an idiot. Just sayin', like.

[Chester6]

Well, I like to think I wasn't an idiot. Just sayin', like.

 

You know yourself

Based on here though I'd say no is the answer

[antone]

You know yourself

Based on here though I'd say no is the answer

 

You're too kind

 

Though to be fair, if I was an idiot who wished harm on claimants, I wouldn't be here at all. It's not like I get paid, heh.

[Nystagmite]

From experience, it's a minority. The majority are helpful. The ones I've dealt with, anyway.

[Chester6]

downstairs were fine

PWP are far from fine and deliberately try to sanction people and are rude, petty and vindictive bullies based on my experiences thus far

[osdset]

It seems to me than any moral compass DWP/JCP staff had or have is stifled by pressure from above, nothing concentrates the mind like the prospect of joining the 2.7 million on the other side of the desk.

 

I am finding more and more of a 'my hands are tied' or 'oh well, that's the way it is' attitude among DWP/JCP staff these days. Even those in a position to change a claimants life for the better seem reluctant to act for some reason, staff seem over keen to apply rules that adversely effect claimants, and not so keen on rectifying mistakes made on claims.

[Chester6]

Latest escuse the PWP use is that they must be stricter yet they ignore that they are petty vindictive bullies instead. You'd think that they may want to support but no -far from it

 

They add more stress and the latest idea is to blame you for being unemployed instead of the recession, cutbacks and people never willing to give others a chance plus the constant demonisation of the unemployed

[Perseus1]

I didn't say WP advisors weren't bullies which seems quite common. Vindictive it is hard to tell, zealots more likely. A gaurdian look at the world is very likely.

[Mr.P]

They add more stress and the latest idea is to blame you for being unemployed

 

"It's your fault for being unemployed" is not a new idea - I had the same cr*p on the FnD programme, although I did get to turn the tables on the lead harpy when it was announced that the FnD was to be scrapped.... "Well, it looks like you will be out of work yourself soon. Don't expect to be tuped across to the next bunch of charlatans."

[antone]

Yes - the present government (and the last one, to be fair, this isn't party political) is pushing the idea that unemployment is the fault of the unemployed.

[Chester6]

I know it's a popular tactic

Just the first time someone's dared say that

And it's cos I denied UJM access and I think they are trying to get me to buy into the lie they are somehow helping me by bullying, being petty and trying to victimise me

[worried33]

I wonder if someone at a work programme interview if they refused to blame themselves (but otherwise are doing what they can to find work) would be considered not complying and sanctioned?

 

IS it going to get to the point where people have to sign a declaration where they are legally finding themselves at fault for been out of work un return for JSA?

[antone]

I wonder if someone at a work programme interview if they refused to blame themselves (but otherwise are doing what they can to find work) would be considered not complying and sanctioned?

 

IS it going to get to the point where people have to sign a declaration where they are legally finding themselves at fault for been out of work un return for JSA?

 

At present, you can't be sanctioned because of what you think - only what you do (or don't do). So you can't get into trouble for disagreeing with the government.

[lofatmat]

As anyone read this? 400,000 people had their JSA sanctioned under new rules, how do the Jobcentre staff/decision maker sleep at night knowing their are causing and hurting people's life and not to forget stress.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24829866

 

Individually they are nothing but together that's an army that could do serious damage to the tory MP's!

Edited December 1, 2013 by honeybee13