400,000 people had their Jobseekers sanctioned

[Gay_guy1986]

As anyone read this? 400,000 people had their JSA sanctioned under new rules, how do the Jobcentre staff/decision maker sleep at night knowing their are causing and hurting people's life and not to forget stress.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24829866

[antone]

I did read that - it's pretty bad. As the CPAG guy pointed out, if sanctions were really effective, there'd be fewer of them, not more.

 

As to how JCP staff sleep at night, well, would you prefer that they all walked out and that there was no-one to pay benefits? How would that be a help to claimants?

[Perseus1]

G4s employ sadists (note the job requirement if you want to join their firm) and they like hurting people. I expect they sleep well just like any good Nazi.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Perseus1

[Chester6]

I think many don't care or claim it's the jobseekers fault

Some I have met would probably reach ecstasy at sanctioning people

Plus many claim to only worry about the rules

[Nystagmite]

There's something about this on Twitter. I can't understand at all why you get sanctioned for missing your signing on appointment if your reason for missing it is because you have an interview. If you miss the interview, you'd be sanctioned too.

[Chester6]

There's something about this on Twitter. I can't understand at all why you get sanctioned for missing your signing on appointment if your reason for missing it is because you have an interview. If you miss the interview, you'd be sanctioned too.

Sounds like jobsworths

[antone]

There's something about this on Twitter. I can't understand at all why you get sanctioned for missing your signing on appointment if your reason for missing it is because you have an interview. If you miss the interview, you'd be sanctioned too.

 

I never had a problem with that - if I had an interview I called the office and asked if I could sign early or late and they were always OK with it.

[Perseus1]

I have just found out I have missed a contract job because I was too busy messing about with the Work Programme. Extremely ****ed off. Rival got it instead which makes it worse as I am better at it.

[estellyn]

With jobcentre staff (not counting the bad employees which you get everywhere), what are they supposed to do? It has been made public that there are targets and staff are monitored for the number of sanctions and face action if they are not seen to be performing.

 

If you are on the sharp end of administering the system, the last thing you want to do is resign, be sacked or be more likely to be chosen for redundancy due to ethical issues with sanctions. The one thing worse than having a job you hate at the moment is having no job at all and having to claim JSA - seeing your colleagues every two weeks when you sign.

 

There is no right path for these people.

[Perseus1]

Tip: if you miss a JobCentre signing on appointment, the best thing to say is you are ill with a cold. This is easiest for them and they can OK your money straight away. After you have filled in a form and signed it. Make it more complicated and it might have to go to an assessor and it will be delayed even more.

 

I expect you can only do this once, perhaps twice, a year.

 

With the WP it might be best to go in even if you are badly ill.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Perseus1

[antone]

Tip: if you miss a JobCentre signing on appointment, the best thing to say is you are ill with a cold. This is easiest for them and they can OK your money straight away. Make it more complicated and it might have to go to an assessor and it will be delayed even more.

 

I expect you can only do this once, perhaps twice, a year.

 

With the WP it might be best to go in even if you are badly ill.

 

No, they can't OK your money - you need to complete and return form JSA28 before you can be paid if you miss a signing on day.

 

You're correct in that you can only do this twice in any rolling one year period, for a maximum of 14 days for each. During that time you can be exempted from actively seeking employment, and that includes mandatory WP appointments. Someone who is forced to miss a WP appointment through illness should also contact the Provider.

[Chester6]

Tip: if you miss a JobCentre signing on appointment, the best thing to say is you are ill with a cold. This is easiest for them and they can OK your money straight away. Make it more complicated and it might have to go to an assessor and it will be delayed even more.

 

I expect you can only do this once, perhaps twice, a year.

 

With the WP it might be best to go in even if you are badly ill.

I have been ill whilst on the WP with no issues apart from a staff member who didn't know anything

[bcham]

last time i was ill i struggled to get in to town to sign on but i made it,and made sure i breathed on my adviser,

[dyfed]

Yes and if you have sickness and diarrhea be sure not to wash your hands before going to the job centre lol

[Nystagmite]

Bit unfair on people with weak immune systems who catch everything going.

[Perseus1]

Bit unfair on people with weak immune systems who catch everything going.

 

At least they don't have problems with arthritis

[antone]

At least they don't have problems with arthritis

 

At least people with arthritis still have their limbs. We could go on like this all night.

 

Just don't intentionally spread contaminants around the place, people. It's not rocket science to figure out why it's a terrible idea.

[Nystagmite]

Indeed. Not sure you'd appreciate someone giving you their germs. Especially when for some people, a cold turns into a chest infection or worse.

[Perseus1]

If you get ill the WP think you are skiving. My interpretation of their punitive measures.

[antone]

If you get ill the WP think you are skiving. My interpretation of their punitive measures.

 

What they "think" is irrelevant. If you're covered by a JSA28, you can't be sanctioned.

[Perseus1]

What they "think" is irrelevant. If you're covered by a JSA28, you can't be sanctioned.

 

It might prompt them to send a non-compliance form to the Job Centre, if they are vindictive or they don't like you anyway. They have done that already though. They might even fill in one of the fraud forms. Even if you are innocent, they go over your claim with a fine tooth comb and they may find a procedural abnormality (e.g they have mislaid a form). It has happened before. It is really confusing.

 

Or why am I getting grief?

Edited November 8, 2013 by Perseus1

[antone]

You're getting "grief" (if you choose to characterise it that way) because what you are saying is not true and could cause people reading this unnecessary distress.

 

If you fail to show up to a WP appointment, the provider will send a referral to the Jobcentre. When the DM looks at it and sees the period is covered by a JSA28, they will take no further action.

 

WP providers can't fill in fraud forms and JCP staff don't have time to hassle every jobseeker who ever missed an appointment because of a nasty cold or a bout of stomach flu.

[Perseus1]

You're getting "grief" (if you choose to characterise it that way) because what you are saying is not true and could cause people reading this unnecessary distress.

 

If you fail to show up to a WP appointment, the provider will send a referral to the Jobcentre. When the DM looks at it and sees the period is covered by a JSA28, they will take no further action.

 

WP providers can't fill in fraud forms and JCP staff don't have time to hassle every jobseeker who ever missed an appointment because of a nasty cold or a bout of stomach flu.

 

 

Sorry. I am over-reacting. I think I am being investigated (too much for coincidence). Somebody must have started it as I have not done anything wrong.

 

WP have been hostile from the very beginning. Not just ordinary. Everything was an accusation. I did not go into the WP with any preconceived notions, except I expected them to be helpful (or at least neutral).

 

 

Unless investigations are obligatory for anyone signing on WP.

 

Missing a Jobcentre signing-on is a bit of a hassle and it is best to make it in if you can.

[antone]

Agreed - missing a signing on day is hassle, even if covered by a JSA28, since you need to get hold of the form and then get it back to JCP before any payment can be issued.

 

As to your being investigated, do you have any particular reason to believe this? I mean, many folks here have reported hostility and other unpleasantness from their WP advisers, but WP advisers have no say on fraud investigations. Perhaps it's just that they're clueless, offensive and have cynical motives. If someone has falsely reported you for fraud, say, the WP staff won't know anything about it.

[Perseus1]

Agreed - missing a signing on day is hassle, even if covered by a JSA28, since you need to get hold of the form and then get it back to JCP before any payment can be issued.

 

As to your being investigated, do you have any particular reason to believe this? I mean, many folks here have reported hostility and other unpleasantness from their WP advisers, but WP advisers have no say on fraud investigations. Perhaps it's just that they're clueless, offensive and have cynical motives. If someone has falsely reported you for fraud, say, the WP staff won't know anything about it.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Yep, I know as certain I can be I have been reported both under the following procedures

 

1) raising doubts over my compliance with the work programme mandates, but I have complied with my Job Centre agreement

2) reported as suspected fraud

 

Both occurred less than week after I visited my WP Advisor. Two separate occasions.

 

I can read people well enough to hazard a guess who made the reports.

 

This is not clueless (except in the sense of without evidence or clues), sneaky and underhand rather than offensive, and vindictive rather than cynical. It is a toxic environment there at G4s. I know the difference between deliberate bullying and zealots.They are out of control.

 

Other participants said that the direct sanctions were threatening but did not work. Although, it is obvious that some people have had their benefit suspended although in the one case I know the sanctions seem to have been overturned before a formal appeal.

 

I know from talking to other people I am being treated worse than other people. The Manager has intervened in two out of three interviews.

 

But this is the same old story. But it is not, it is much worse than other reports with people taken into a separate room and group berated like a criminal by three or four people. I have not reports of this happening elsewhere. I think I would report it to the Police under threatening behaviour if if happened to me.

 

The only action I have taken is I asked by Job Advisor not to pass any confidential information on to the WP Advisor. She has said she is allowed to because of the data protection restrictions, but that does not mean senior officers cannot do this under the contract.

 

I think I might have to put this is writing to the Job Centre. Who should I address the letter to please? This is a risky procedure because they may contact the WP and escalate the conflict and make reconciliation fraught, not just impossible.

 

I first of all but the conflict down to incompatible personalities but it is gone past that now.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Perseus1