Forced to use Universal Jobmatch

[Perseus1]

Having never had to claim unemployment benefit in my working life of 49 years, and hearing a lot about this jobmatch system, I had a go on it last night out of interest.

I put in my postcode and a 30 mile radius. I gave no indication of what I am qualified for nor did I give it any indication of the type of job I was looking for.

 

Of the 5 pages of 'jobs' that it came up with, 60% were self employed 'delivering leaflets', with the rest made up links to other websites, other agencies etc. There were probably no more than 7 'real' jobs, none of which I could do either because I am too weak to start labouring on a site, don't have the qualifications or experience - HGV driver and food van deliveries etc.

 

Based on that sample I would not be able to apply for any job.

 

Oh I forgot to mention that I am a qualified chartered accountant (FCA) with specialist further qualifications in Tax Law (CTA)!

 

Any decent recruiters do NOT use Universal JobSearch. Try CV Library and see what you come up with. I only use JobSearch for my log. I bet you find a few jobs you could do on other recruitment sites.

 

Universal JobSearch is only the starting point for using the system operated by people looking for jobs nowadays.

 

Do you want a new job: http://www.fish4.co.uk/job/1541500/ware-christchurch/education-recruitment-consultant?cmpid=jbe_daily_fish4_20131104_2

Edited November 4, 2013 by Perseus1

[Perseus1]

WARNING: (My interpretation)

 

I think for anybody computer literate, that failing to use the computer to look for jobs could be seen as not collaborating with the system.

 

Not collaborating with the system means you are classed as a shirker and they can see you coming.

 

Universal Jobmatch is next to useless for jobs for older employees. White van drivers seem to get jobs easily enough anyway.

 

Other recruitment agencies have lots of jobs. Pity I don't fit them. I need to update my skills. Hence Careers Advice. The Work Programme does not seems to have skilled advisers for the older worker who has some experience.

[Perseus1]

Collaborating does not mean getting in bed with them, or does it?

 

It just sort of means working under the same roof. If they are a perpetual headache, I can't see how it can be done though?

 

I might have done the Business Studies course but I was never cut out to be a Line Manager.

[silverlight]

 

Any decent recruiters do NOT use Universal JobSearch. Try and see what you come up with. I only use JobSearch for my log.

I bet you find a few jobs you could do on other recruitment sites.

Universal JobSearch is only the starting point for using the system operated by people looking for jobs nowadays.

Do you want a new job?

 

I only carried out the exercise just to see what all of the fuss was about given that the state are demanding that the unemployed use that website to prove job searches.

 

I was totally amazed at the rubbish that came up. If the state are actually saying that that is one of their 'new' tools it is no wonder that there are so many disillusioned claimants.

 

Thanks for the link for the job, no, I think I will pass on that, my career has now come to an aged end.

[Perseus1]

 

 

 

I only carried out the exercise just to see what all of the fuss was about given that the state are demanding that the unemployed use that website to prove job searches.

 

I was totally amazed at the rubbish that came up. If the state are actually saying that that is one of their 'new' tools it is no wonder that there are so many disillusioned claimants.

 

Thanks for the link for the job, no, I think I will pass on that, my career has now come to an aged end.

 

Thanks for the reply. You will have to try CVLibrary to get a better picture. Or bigger picture. No agenda here. I would value you a more refined opinion from a little more research.

 

It alters the goal posts ...

 

Disillusion does not come from minor **** like that. It is much more serious than that. See the Daily Telegraph (right wing) opinion for the best hawk-eye analysis, when they get around to it. They do not have a political axe to grind. My WP advisor is G4S. He could make it as Prison Officer. But a lot of the clients are convicts on release from the penitentiary.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Perseus1

[Perseus1]

I have moved on now:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?408588-Tips-for-Getting-Jobs(3-Viewing)-nbsp

 

The idea is get a Plan of Action.

 

The ones supplied by the WP or Job Centre might need a bit of tweaking to maximise effectiveness.

 

You will need some kind of log to keep a record. Universal Jobmatch provide an easy to use entry system on their Activity History.

 

You soon find out that the better jobs are with Recruitment Agencies. Most of them seem to be nowadays. Even if they are in the newspapers they are quite likely to be on the Internet somewhere.

 

When you sign up with the agencies you get so much stuff coming through it is hard to read them all. By refining your search you can reduce the number, but I managed to miss one by doing this.

[Abbtt]

Thank you, everyone, for all your help!!!

Thank you soooo much for sharing the link here @Perseus1

 

Having never had to claim unemployment benefit in my working life of 49 years, and hearing a lot about this jobmatch system, I had a go on it last night out of interest.

I put in my postcode and a 30 mile radius. I gave no indication of what I am qualified for nor did I give it any indication of the type of job I was looking for.

 

Of the 5 pages of 'jobs' that it came up with, 60% were self employed 'delivering leaflets', with the rest made up of links to other websites, other agencies etc. There were probably no more than 7 'real' jobs, none of which I could do either because I am too weak to start labouring on a building site, don't have the qualifications or experience - HGV driver and food van deliveries etc.

 

Based on that sample I would not be able to apply for any job and would therefore be subject to a sanction for not trying hard enough!!

 

Oh I forgot to mention that I am a qualified chartered accountant (FCA) with specialist further qualifications in Tax Law (CTA)!

 

Hi Silverlight!!

Is that possible for you to give me some advice regarding what I can possibly do to get a job in Accounting please? Have been looking for an entry level role (Accountant Assistant) in accounting for 2-3 months at least. So far I've only received roughly 5-7 phone calls per month, but almost none of them is about the accounting jobs I applied.

I have a degree in Accounting and I am looking to become ACCA qualified in this future. Worked in a very small charity before as a volunteer, I was only doing some really basic accounting tasks there. I cannot apply for a graduate role because my A levels ain't good enough to meet the requirements, and have done nothing that is spectacular to impress the interviewer. I use Job search websites like: Reed, Cv library, jobsite and many others, also registered with agencies like Adecco, Page personnel, Hays etc. I know that currently I do not stand a fair chance against other jobseekers, but I really enjoy accounting and definitely wanted to become an chartered accountant in the future. In this case, I am just wondering if you could give me some advice of what I can possibly do to improve my chance of getting a paid job in accounting please. Thanks in advance.

[Flickyhecky]

I'm setting up my UJ account at the Job Centre this afternoon...any tips on do's and dont's?

 

I've set up another Hotmail account, because it's the only way i can get my CV onto the system!

 

Will it realise that i had a go myself at setting up an account this morning already on my PC?

 

Another quick thing, my advisor (or Work Coach), has said that i need to bring my Work Diary with me for every appointment, as this isn't a proper scheduled appointment (she usually prints off a letter), do i have to bring it with me, she already checked it last Thursday! Is it a sanctionable offence, not get anything in writing about it!

[Mr.P]

I'm setting up my UJ account at the Job Centre this afternoon...any tips on do's and dont's

Don't tick the boxes that give DWP access to your account.Don't upload a CV with too much personal information - Minimum of details, no phone numbers or email addresses.Don't let yourself be bullied in to allowing access or putting up information you don't want to be in the public domain.

As for appointments - These should always be in writing and either handed to you or posted in good time. As this is a JCP adviser, I'd suggest going, but demand travel expenses are reimbursed in full before entering in to any other conversation.

[Perseus1]

I'm setting up my UJ account at the Job Centre this afternoon...any tips on do's and dont's?

 

I've set up another Hotmail account, because it's the only way i can get my CV onto the system!

 

Will it realise that i had a go myself at setting up an account this morning already on my PC?

 

Another quick thing, my advisor (or Work Coach), has said that i need to bring my Work Diary with me for every appointment, as this isn't a proper scheduled appointment (she usually prints off a letter), do i have to bring it with me, she already checked it last Thursday! Is it a sanctionable offence, not get anything in writing about it!

 

Good luck. Nothing to worry about. It is just an aid for everybody concerned.

 

When you have got used to the system, it is best to sign on to other agencies as the JobMatch does not have the best jobs. Reed, CV LIbrary etc.

 

Only one thing to watch. You can put your job log on your Activity History but the entries cannot be deleted.

 

Activity History is designed for your own notes, include reference numbers as these easily get lost. Because of this it might get a bit crowded as a Job Log.

 

The idea (which I did not do) is to get your CV right before uploading it to all the agencies. And log the uploads or make a note of which CV you uploaded where, or else it is easy to get them mixed up.

 

I have redone my CV and now I have got to upload the new one everywhere.

 

then trawl around the agencies and see what takes your fancy. I found that I did not have skills or qualifications for some jobs, but I thought I could do them so I applied for them anyway. I concentrated on my aptitudes rather skills.

 

Some people may benefit from Careers Advice.

[jasta11]

..plus there's also a tick box where you can allow the DWP to send messages to your UJ account - definitely don't tick this one, as if you do it will allow them to send you job vacancies (of their choice, not yours) which you'll then have to apply for, or else risk being sanctioned.

 

Also remember they can't make you provide print-outs from UJ either. Once you've registered (and NOT given them access), every time they try and access your account it will flash up a message telling them 'You do not have permission to view this account'. That is the proof that you have indeed created an account as requested. It's clearly stated in the guidelines as being acceptable proof so don't let them badger you about it - extract from Chapter 3, Universal Jobmatch Toolkit guidance below;

 

Claimant has not given DWP access to their account

11. If the claimant has not given DWP permission to access their account your

search will open a page that returns a message which says, “User has not

provided permissions to access account.” This also confirms that the

claimant has completed their profile and therefore has created an account.

 

Re your job diary, I'd play ultra-safe and take it with you again - and make sure you've added some more jobs to it since last time they saw it, to show that you're actively looking for work every single day and have something in writing. Alway cover your back!

[Perseus1]

I forgot.

 

You may have "Confidential Job Applications" that you do not wish to be known outside of the negotiation between the two parties. This is why job applications are confidential. It is none of the business of third parties.

 

I thought the best way to get around this one was too use abbreviations.

 

I used to worry about this and the effect it had on my reputation if it became widely known. Now, I simply do not care so much.

 

However, this applies both ways as well. The employer may want you to keep it confidential as well. This really applies for jobs that you have applied for privately, not through Recruitment Agencies where the job is there for all to see.

 

The Job Centre are limited by data protection and they will not pass details of your Job Log on to third parties. Not without your permission. They do not normally ask for your permission, so I don't think there is anything to worry about there though.

[Perseus1]

..plus there's also a tick box where you can allow the DWP to send messages to your UJ account - definitely don't tick this one, as if you do it will allow them to send you job vacancies (of their choice, not yours) which you'll then have to apply for, or else risk being sanctioned.

Alway cover your back!

 

This optional. This may be good advice as the Job Centre may send you to an unsuitable job. This has probably happened to everyone at one time or another.

 

These are jobs that cannot be filled because they are not very good, usually. Some are dreadful and are trial jobs where an employer gets someone on a six month trial and then promptly sacks them and gets another trainee. I went for the job and made a complaint afterwards.

 

I don't think this is so much to worry about nowadays ??? Don't know really ?

 

However, there is a slim chance they will send you a suitable job you have missed. Unlikely, I'm afraid. They are too busy.

 

I think I let them tick the box. Not sure. I should have been more attentive. They have not suggested any jobs so far.

 

I hate this sort of thing.

 

This means it is most important to register with the other agencies who will weed out any bad employers straight away.

 

Bad jobs are still around via the Job Centre. I met one trainee bookkeeper who was arrested for money laundering (allegedly) because she was employed by a crooked firm who used Jobcentre for recruitment.

Edited November 11, 2013 by Perseus1

[jasta11]

Yes, they're very good at pretending to be your 'Personal Advisor' and getting you back into work but I've noticed they themselves don't actually do anything for you. 'Personal Monitor' would seem a better job description.

 

Also, don't forget that they're not allowed to contact employers for 'feedback' (ie to check if you actually did apply) without your express consent. This only applies to jobs you found for yourself though; if they found the vacancy for you and officially told you to apply then they're allowed to check up on whether you actually applied.

[silverlight]

Thank you, everyone, for all your help!!!

Thank you soooo much for sharing the link here @Perseus1

 

 

 

Hi Silverlight!!

Is that possible for you to give me some advice regarding what I can possibly do to get a job in Accounting please? Have been looking for an entry level role (Accountant Assistant) in accounting for 2-3 months at least. So far I've only received roughly 5-7 phone calls per month, but almost none of them is about the accounting jobs I applied.

I have a degree in Accounting and I am looking to become ACCA qualified in this future. Worked in a very small charity before as a volunteer, I was only doing some really basic accounting tasks there. I cannot apply for a graduate role because my A levels ain't good enough to meet the requirements, and have done nothing that is spectacular to impress the interviewer. I use Job search websites like: Reed, Cv library, jobsite and many others, also registered with agencies like Adecco, Page personnel, Hays etc. I know that currently I do not stand a fair chance against other jobseekers, but I really enjoy accounting and definitely wanted to become an chartered accountant in the future. In this case, I am just wondering if you could give me some advice of what I can possibly do to improve my chance of getting a paid job in accounting please. Thanks in advance.

 

Sorry but I seemed to have missed your posting - apologies.

 

http://www.icaew.com/

 

http://www.tax.org.uk/

 

http://www.accaglobal.com/

 

http://www.aat.org.uk/

 

http://www.att.org.uk/

 

Those are the 5 main accountancy bodies. All 5 will give you the low down on what they are about.

 

Right so you have a degree in accountancy. Most if not all agencies will only advertise jobs for the qualified person.

 

There are two ways of becoming qualified (all require study and exams). 1. Personally approach all of the local firms that would employ an accountant - have a search in your area using this directory http://www.kellysearch.co.uk/

Make sure that you point out that you wish to further your career and be prepared to take on ANY accountancy related job - you can only go upwards!

 

2. Find a rich uncle or look for grants to fund your further professional intentions at a specialised college. You could even do the studying at night. I used to teach Tax Law to ATT/AAT students at night school at Swansea University so I know that it used to be available.

 

The hardest bit is to get your foot into the doorway of an employer. You just have to do what you have to do!

 

It might be easier to get a start taking the AAT exam then moving off to either ACA or ACCA. At least it would be a stepping stone with AAT/ATT under your belt! You could also decide to specialise from the start either go AAT/ATT then CIOT or simply just CIOT.

 

To find a company that would be willing to give your a study contract (Articles) for either ACA or ACCA will be difficult given that there are a lot of high fliers around.

 

Have you considered an apprenticeship? - have a look at the ATT site if that is of any interest. Have you an account with https://uk.linkedin.com/. You would be surprised how many people are offered positions from that site.

 

One final point, I have always directed people to the Michael Page site. My grandson (after 6 months work experience with HMRC) found his first appointment through them and they know the business inside out. You could even ring them for some advice now!

Edited November 12, 2013 by silverlight

[Mr Happy77]

Hi, I was just seeking a bit of advice on this subject as it looks like I'm in a similar situation.

 

I attending my signing on day today and as usual handed in my Jobsearch written down on the ES4JP form. All the details were there, what I'd done, who and sent it to etc. Now for the past four visits I have had a running conversation over why I don't use UJM. On each occasion I cited the inconvenience of having to log everything on a PC when the paper copy is always to hand and also the numerous security issues revolving around the site. These reasons were accepted and even noted on my account 4 weeks ago.

 

Today however, I was told in no uncertain terms that by the end of Feb, it's UJM as evidence, no paper, no verbal. If it's not on the webiste, it doesn't count. My initial question was firstly would I be getting written confirmation of this change and when was the change announced. I was redirected to the DWP website if I had issues.

 

I left it at that and have got 4 weeks til my next sign on date so was wondering if anyone can confirm that the above is correct and if not, where abouts on the DWP website is the relevant info for me to print out.

 

Thanks in advance

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

You need to refer them to the manual refered in this thread. Print it out and take it along

[Mr.P]

The goalposts are slowly being moved, as as they do so, the supporting documents change. The most up to date statement I can find regarding job search evidence is: https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/mandatory_proof_of_job_searching - Print this out to support any claim that a paper based record is acceptable.

 

In the meantime, I'll keep an eye on the F.o.I. requests and published DWP documents to see if there is any fundamental change - Not everyone has a computer or access to the internet, so I don't see how the DWP can realistically force through a change that mandates all claimants to record activity via UJM. If they did, it would be worth asking what measures are in place when the system goes down (e.g. for maintenance).

 

Then of course, there is the regular question as to what law allows a JCP adviser the right to access a claimants UJ account - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/giving_job_centre_acess_to_unive - There is no legislation in place that overrules the rights of an individual to privacy !

Edited December 12, 2013 by Mr.P

[Grumpyoldgit]

I have also been informed that it is to become mandatory to allow DWP access to my UJM. In my case I was given a load of nonsense about "the Government winning a court case" (?) and all UJM data now being stored behind a "government firewall not at Monster.com which makes everything all legal and ok".

Non compliance will apparently mean having to come into the JC daily to use one of their 3 "soon to be 15" computers (along with about 1000 other people).

When asked about some kind of user guide to UJM he very kindly pointed me in the direction of...... The UJM toolkit ! talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

 

 

To be fair my advisor has till now been good and not tried to B.S. me, so I assume he is being pressured from above. other posts on this topic would indicate it is widespread.

Annoyingly as he had been (till then) Ok with me I had already agreed to allow him access, now he is going to have to apologise for lying to me and ask me again, nicely !

[Mr.P]

"the Government winning a court case" (?) and all UJM data now being stored behind a "government firewall not at Monster.com which makes everything all legal and ok".

 

(ask) Is there a reference to this "court case" so that we can read the full and final judgement ?

 

As for data storage - This may be the case, but the data is still being submitted via a server located outside the UK and not under the direct control of the DWP. Regardless of court rulings and location of the data storage, it does not override your rights under the Data Protection Act or rights to privacy.

 

It would be worth keeping an eye on the PCS union web site to see what guidance they issue to their members.

[joeski]

the best thing to do is print a copy of the UJM guidelines and take them with you whenever you go to the jobcentre or WP provider. that way if any person claims you have to give them access you can read them the part that says you cannot be mandated to give them access. i bet their faces after that will be a picture haha

[Jaybee in CF]

This optional. This may be good advice as the Job Centre may send you to an unsuitable job. This has probably happened to everyone at one time or another.

 

 

 

Not me, and at severe risk of blowing my own trumpet here, my CV was and is quite an overwhelming one and would scream 'Overqualified' to all but the best paid 5% of all listings on the UJM website, thus making it difficult for my advisor to send me off to some company for a low-end job to hit his target. (And by the way, scream 'Skillset mismatch' to another 4.9%.)

 

 

My current advisor seemed to pick up on this and actually tried it on during our initial meetings, saying said I might eventually have to accept a Sales job (within my profession). The simple, harsh truth sufficed to crush that threat; I simply replied I had already BEEN in sales, many moons ago, and was just crap at it. Fundamentally I found it demeaning to ask dozens of strangers a day to hand over money for goods/services, especially as I didn't believe they would benefit them, it's just too akin to outright begging, and since those days, my feelings have only hardened.

 

 

Also, she's also a remarkably well-educated lady, very atypical of their usual bunch, she even demonstrated a smidgeon of hard-core know how about my own profession, and is streetsmart to boot; I suspect they've sicked her on me so I don't run rings around their less-than-stellar cohorts. And as SHE couldn't tell the difference, I have to conclude their are a lot of ways to talk your Advisor out of unfavourable stuff.

[Perseus1]

Not me, and at severe risk of blowing my own trumpet here, my CV was and is quite an overwhelming one and would scream 'Overqualified' to all but the best paid 5% of all listings on the UJM website, thus making it difficult for my advisor to send me off to some company for a low-end job to hit his target. (And by the way, scream 'Skillset mismatch' to another 4.9%.)

 

 

My current advisor seemed to pick up on this and actually tried it on during our initial meetings, saying said I might eventually have to accept a Sales job (within my profession). The simple, harsh truth sufficed to crush that threat; I simply replied I had already BEEN in sales, many moons ago, and was just crap at it. Fundamentally I found it demeaning to ask dozens of strangers a day to hand over money for goods/services, especially as I didn't believe they would benefit them, it's just too akin to outright begging, and since those days, my feelings have only hardened.

 

 

Also, she's also a remarkably well-educated lady, very atypical of their usual bunch, she even demonstrated a smidgeon of hard-core know how about my own profession, and is streetsmart to boot; I suspect they've sicked her on me so I don't run rings around their less-than-stellar cohorts. And as SHE couldn't tell the difference, I have to conclude their are a lot of ways to talk your Advisor out of unfavourable stuff.

 

I am in the same position. I found that I was totally unsuitable in sales and I have a glossy accurate CV. However, my sales ability of talking them out of an unsuitable position is also a somewhat weakness.

[Curtly]

I have refused to give my advisor permission to view my account .I have only being signing on a few months.I am also a former DWP employee (a few years ago now),so I know a bit about this. I have been using the Ujobmatch to apply for jobs though. A lot of the jobs on there dont exist. They are put on by bogus employers and agencies (I could name them as well) in an attempt to glean personal information from cv's to sell onto sales companies etc.Or to get adverts on their own websites under the pretence that they are an actual agency. So be careful about that. Bogus agencies generally advertise too good to be true jobs with adverts such as 'we are recruiting for a major high street retailer ' and the wages are fantastically high for that sort of job. I.e £9-50 per hour for retail etc. Also you dont usually need experience for the job (so as to gain maximum CV submissions).

There are a lot of bona fide agencies and most of them you will have heard of such as Manpower, Reed etc etc. The dodgy ones are where they advise you they 'are an online company and dont welcome telephone enquiries'. Or they just have a screen requesting a cv.

These bogus employers and agencies are also having an effect on the vacancies notified figures. I.e the govt will be stating that Uni Jobmatch had so many vacancies last month /year etc ,when in fact many of them are bogus. This then is contributing to the govt giving inflated figures.

Dont give your advisor permission to view acct as he/she wil; badger you with jobs you dont want to apply for and will stop your benefit if you dont follow up anything they have notified for. If you are a competent ,reasonabily intellgient person you can look for work yourself. In fact the JC advisor is an hindrance. Giving permission for them to view it is not really meant to help you ,but for the DWP to use it as a tool to monitor you with a view to giving you a sanction .Many claimants who arent looking for work may well deserve that, but it will generally be used to sanction 'jobseekers' as well.

[jasta11]

Amen to that.

 

Call me old-fashioned, but when I apply for a vacancy I want to know the name of the company and their address, the full job details and the salary. A lot of UJ jobs don't give you any of this. I'm afraid 'Administrator wanted, North East' just isn't good enough. I always assume it's dodgy.

 

You'd think the genuine companies advertising would complain, because the bogus ones are deterring genuine applicants.

 

Also..Happy Birthday to the CAG site; just read it was created 10th Jan 8 years ago. Hope we can all keep the site going as it's a good 'un.

Edited January 15, 2014 by jasta11