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Northampton CCBC Claim from Capquest / Optima Re: old Lloyds CC debt


Dis1971
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Thanks. As mentioned at the start of the thread, this amount is from an old CC debt which I ran up trying to save a failed business - I have absolutely no chance of being able to pay this back. From what you say then - if they decide to pursue, that I actually have no defence, if I owe it?

I see other people on this site in older threads have entered defences - but I have no idea on what grounds....

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I did not CCA Capquest, as the claim form came through very quickly. I sent the CPR31 request, so did not think the CCA request was necessary in addition?

The default notice from Lloyds was in 2009 and I never kept it - so not sure if compliant. The notice of assignment seemed compliant - but in my fit of burying my head in the sand, unfortunately this went in the bin also. I do not believe there was any PPI.

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a bit late for your current defence deadline, but can do a cca request asap anyway, see what they come back with. non compliance with that is a statutory defence re court enforcement, albeit maybe temporary.

re dn, shame, cause their dn's around that time were known to be non compliant. non compliance being a possible defence re enforcement. but without proof to the contrary a J might accept that they sent a compliant one assuming they can show that one was sent. but still, put them to proof re compliance?

then there is my post #14 re the then s127 (3) consumer credit act which would be applicable.

see what andy says.

Edited by Ford
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Thanks. As mentioned at the start of the thread, this amount is from an old CC debt which I ran up trying to save a failed business - I have absolutely no chance of being able to pay this back. From what you say then - if they decide to pursue, that I actually have no defence, if I owe it?

I see other people on this site in older threads have entered defences - but I have no idea on what grounds....

 

Dis, i'm just rambling so don't take anything i say as gospel.

If your particulars of claim are correct in your first post, i've a gut feeling that they don't have the documents they mention (or do not mention). Why? Because they havn't claimed a date for any of them. And they won't nail down a date if they don't know it.

They've asserted a consumer credit agreement and havn't provided it so far?

I'd be sending of a CPR18 request straight away and asking a few simple questions...........

(1) Can you please tell me the date the credit agreement was entered into?

(2)Can you please tell me the date the Default Notice was sent to me?

(3) Can you tell me the amounts requested on the Default Notice to remedy the Default?

(4)...any questions about the notice of assignment , if you have any questions about it.

 

I'd be sending a defence stating yes there was a credit agreement with the claimant but i cannot confirm if it is an agreement regulated by the CCA as i do not have a copy and my CPR request for inspection of such document has not been met with. Therefore i deny that any such agreement is a CCA regulated agreement.

I am not in possesion of a default notice from the claimant and further to requests for such i will deny that any CCA regulated Default Notice was served on me.

etc.....

 

The general ethos of the CPR is for a more cards on the table approach to litigation. If a party thinks it worthwhile to mention a document in his pleadings, witness statements or affidavits, I do not see why, subject as I say to the question of privilege, the court should put difficulties in the way of inspection. I look upon the mention of a document in pleadings etc as a form of disclosure. The document in question has not been disclosed by list, or at any rate not yet, but it has been disclosed by mention in what, for the purposes of litigation, is another important and formal category of documents. If so, then the party deploying that document by its mention should in principle be prepared to be required to permit its inspection, and the other party should be entitled to its inspection. What in such circumstances is the virtue of coyness?

 

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2008/59.html

 

 

Its your money and your gamble. Whats it going to cost you if you put in a crap defense or no defense? What more will it cost you if you do defend and fail ?

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Firstly you cant stay a claim in between the AoS and the defence...you can make application to strike it out but not on the grounds referred to above.

 

You can only extend the defence date by agreement and conformation of the claimant.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

Andy for clarity are you saying you can't make an application to strike out based on non compliance of a CPR request ?

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Andy for clarity are you saying you can't make an application to strike out based on non compliance of a CPR request ?

 

Precisely the claimant is not compelled to comply...its a civil request....they have to disclose later in the process anyway at Standard Disclosure...post defence.This is to stop defendants from submitting defences for none disclosure.....

defence first ...disclosure last

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Precisely the claimant is not compelled to comply...its a civil request....they have to disclose later in the process anyway at Standard Disclosure...post defence.This is to stop defendants from submitting defences for none disclosure.....

defence first ...disclosure last

 

Many thanks Andy for clarifying that and it makes it easier for me to understand now your reasoning.

I don't want to drag on too much here in this thread, but this would mainly apply to MCOL claims, other claims would have documents attached? MCOL is in effect a way to make a claim straight off without supporting documents, is that a fair description of the process ?

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All claims are now either MCOL or Salford CCMCC neither have a requirement to attach documents as per the CPR.

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Hiya dis hope u r ok ive not even heard from them so today deadline for our defences putting mine in hope u r too like others hve all said to me put it in as best as you can and then see what they disclose when they do have to show their documents and info they say they have for their claim - whether its all correct or not at that point im sure we will be advised accordingly - good luck and keep positive x angel

Im happy to help with support and my own thoughts, but if I offer any thoughts to your problems please take it as from my life experience only and not of any legal standing. Always take further advice from the legal experts in your final action.:)

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Just following - well my agreed 28 day extension with the Capquest solicitors is up this week - and as suspected - no response / no documents supplied.

 

I am making my defence based upon the fact that they have not supplied any agreement as requested and I believe it to be non-compliant and not a CCA regulated agreement. The same with the default notice - never received and believed to be non-compliant etc..

Is there anything else that anyone can suggest to add to the defence / to pad it out? - or is padding it out not necessary? Any advice, as before, would be most appreciated!

Many thanks in advance.

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Just following - well my agreed 28 day extension with the Capquest solicitors is up this week - and as suspected - no response / no documents supplied.

 

I am making my defence based upon the fact that they have not supplied any agreement as requested and I believe it to be non-compliant and not a CCA regulated agreement. The same with the default notice - never received and believed to be non-compliant etc..

Is there anything else that anyone can suggest to add to the defence / to pad it out? - or is padding it out not necessary? Any advice, as before, would be most appreciated!

Many thanks in advance.

 

Hi Dis, at this stage i can't see how you can pad it out as you don't have possesion of the documents they mentioned in their Particulars of claim. So you won't be able to pad it out anyway. Saying anything would be pure speculation.

 

Have you filed a defence yet or not ?

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Good luck with it Dis, just be aware if your defence is too flimsy or unsubstantial they may try and ask for a summary judgement. Maybe an idea to post up a draft here for other more experienced posters to comment on. And also be prepared if this is a route they take.

 

I hope i'm going to give you some ideas to consider here, but i've thought a lot over this scenario (where no docs are presented before defence).

 

Its mooted here and elsewhere that with MCOL, there is no need to attach documents to a (MCOL) claim. That much is true. MCOL is designed to make going to court a more simplified experience. So you sue me, i sue you the judge takes stock and makes a decision.

 

Where it aappears unfair to me is that often Claimants (specifically financial institutions) will use MCOL for CCA claims,CCA claims do indeed rely upon documentation so there is an anomally there, or maybe some abuse of process. Thats my personal take on it.

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Thanks - as they have provided no documents, I cannot submit a full defence. I assume I can only mention the points already mentioned - if you can think of anything else I can add, please let me know. I have no clue how to word it - it has been suggested on this site that it is not necessary to use legal jargon etc.. and usually simple sentences suffice. If anyone can help me with what to put / how to put it, please feel free to add to this thread. Thanks for all the help.

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So far, my defence is as simple as:

 

I agree there was a credit agreement with the claimant but i cannot confirm if it is an agreement regulated by the CCA (or compliant) as i do not have a copy and my CPR request for inspection of such document has not been met with. Therefore i deny that any such agreement is a CCA regulated agreement.

I am not in possession of a default notice from the claimant and further to requests for such i will deny that any CCA regulated (or compliant) Default Notice was served on me.

 

If anyone can think of anything else to add...

 

Many thanks again for everyone's help so far.

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Did you do the cca request as advised by Ford on nov25?

Edited by theoldrouge
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Bringing the particulars of claim forward so posters can refer to and advise on your proposed defence.

 

The particulars of the Claim:

 

1.The Claimant's claim is in respect of a credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 whereby LLOYDS BANKING GROUP Original Creditor provided the defendant with a credit card. In return the defendant agreed to pay at least a minimum payment given in the statement.

 

 

2. A default notice was served on the defendant which has expired and upon which the defendant has failed to comply with.

 

 

3. A Notice of Assignment has been sent to the defendant notifying them that this debt has been assigned to the Claimant.

 

 

4. The Claimant therefore claims the sum of 11,XXX.XX plus costs. The Claimant has complied with Sections III and IV of the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.

 

 

Regards

 

 

Andy

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What date did you send it and what reply did you receive?

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Dis, you say in post no1 that you sent a cca request a couple of years ago. Do you have a copy of your request, or at least the date that you sent it on? Did you receive any reply and if so what? Have you lived at the same address since the inception of the card ac? Lloyds old address keeping is not good and an incorrect address would invalidate any recon. To me at the moment your strongest defence albeit maybe temporary would lie in s78(6) Their poc is very loosely worded possibly indicating issue with no docs

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