Northampton CCBC Claim from Capquest / Optima Re: old Lloyds CC debt

[Dis1971]

Hi,

I have received help from these forums in the past and am looking for help once more if possible. I have an old credit card debt (card was taken out in 2001/02 and I have not made any payments since early 2008 and have been in default since late 2008) with Lloyds. It has done the rounds with various DCA's until last month when I received a notice that Capquest had bought the debt. I received 2 letters from Capquest - both last month - I ignored at usual (I know - bury your head in the sand syndrome), but today, I received a Claim Form from Northampton CCBC which completely took me by surprise!

 

The date of the claim is 25 Oct 2013 - the claimant is Capquest (Hampshire) and the address for sending documents is Optima Legal Services in Bradford.

 

The particulars of the Claim:

The Claimant's claim is in respect of a credit agreement regulated by the Consumer Credit Act 1974 whereby LLOYDS BANKING GROUP Original Creditor provided the defendant with a credit card. In return the defendant agreed to pay at least a minimum payment given in the statement. A default notice was served on the defendant which has expired and upon which the defendant has failed to comply with. A Notice of Assignment has been sent to the defendant notifying them that this debt has been assigned to the Claimant. The Claimant therefore claims the sum of 11,537.60 plus costs. The Claimant has complied with Sections III and IV of the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.

 

The claim is for 11536.60 + Court fee of 190.00 + Solicitor's costs of 100.00 = 11827.60

 

Naturally I am very worried at this stage - I simply do not have the means to pay this (debt was run-up years ago, trying to save a failed business). I did send a CCA request to Lloyds a couple of years ago - but cannot find the proof of posting - so no use.

 

What can I do now - if anything? I take it a CCA request to Capquest will not stop them? Do I enter a defence - is it worth it?

 

If anyone can help at this stage, I would really appreciate it. Many thanks in advance.

[marylikes]

Here's what i know, and i've only been here five minutes (i.e i'm a newbie myself to all this).

 

Grab yourself a cup of coffee, relax and go read and absorb all of this thread (its a sticky at the top of this forum)........

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?159445-Getting-Them-To-Reveal-Their-Vitals.-Using-CPR-31.14-to-Your-Advantage

 

 

Pay attention to what it says, and if you decide to follow the advice in it then be prepared for the next stage if they do not comply and its here.........

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?159445-Getting-Them-To-Reveal-Their-Vitals.-Using-CPR-31.14-to-Your-Advantage&p=1771008&viewfull=1#post1771008

 

My understanding is that you have 14 days to acknowledge service of the claim, then you have a further 14 days to submit your defence.

 

Taking the course of action i have said above does not preclude you doing anything else that anyone here will advise you to do. They will have seven days to lay their cards on the table for you to give a considered response.

 

Dont sit there like i did waiting and thinking, get to doing something pro active straight away !! Time won't be on your side if you delay.

[Dis1971]

Many thanks for your advice.

I have read the threads mentioned - probably a silly question, but as the threads are from 2008, is this type of letter/ request currently the best way to deal with this at the moment?

 

Do I send the letter to Capquest or to their solicitors (Optima)? Do these people tend to reply?

 

Sorry for all the questions - just want to make sure my next move is the correct one.

Many thanks again!

[marylikes]

Hi Dis, as far as i am aware there have been changes yes. The specific change that i know of is that for the most part (although it could be argued otherwise) that section 31.14 request excludes small claims, yours is over 10K so should be fast track claim, so its very appropriate for you situation. The small claim limit has recently changed from 5k and been highered to 10k. So you're above that.

You should send your request to the address on your claim form (the bit where it says..."address for sending documents and payments (if different)"

 

I can't stress enough, re read that thread take it in and digest it. If you follow that course you will either get documents you should and you've got time to verify them or...well its all explanatory. Do prepare yourself for no reply though, its no good like me thinking i got no reply now what? (my circumstances are different than yours) Be ready, read it all in advance.Also, please again bear in mind i am a complete novice and just trying to impart information i have gleaned from reading in here. Check yourself and try to verify it, i have learnt they are very helpfull here and i mean this with no ill will, they will not hold your hand here.

[marylikes]

Oh, another thing you can do as mentioned to me and its good advice. Send a S77/78/79 (whichever is applicable) request to the Claimant (thats the one at the top of your claim form) for details of the agreement, that will cost you one pound. You can still do this as well as any other actions, don't wait or think about it just get it done first thing in the morning.

[Dis1971]

Many thanks for the advice yesterday - I have sent a section 31.14 request to Capquests solicitors and will be notifying the court that I wish to submit a defence later today.

 

If I hear nothing back from them in the next 7 days or so, what is the next stage? At what stage do I submit a defence - and what may that defence be? I have read quite a few posts on here and understand that the wording of a defence is very important.

Thanks again.

[marylikes]

You have 14 days to acknowledge the claim and a further 14 days (28 days in total) to submit a defence.

 

If you have a defence it will need to be in a certain format, have a look at this post by Andyorch for an example

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?403662-Claim-form-received-from-Drydens-MBNA-debt-poss-faulty-DN&p=4370978&viewfull=1#post4370978

 

By sending the CPR request you have you have asked them to lay their cards on the table for you to look and give a considered response. You will need to see the documents mentioned to give a considered response?

 

If they do not reply in seven days of service then you need to follow through with the course of action contained in the letter you sent. i.e...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?159445-Getting-Them-To-Reveal-Their-Vitals.-Using-CPR-31.14-to-Your-Advantage&p=1771008&viewfull=1#post1771008

[Dis1971]

Just following up on this - Optima Legal received my section 31.14 request last monday - on friday I received a letter saying:

 

With reference to the above matter please be advised that we are currently considering your comments and have requested the documentation from our client.

 

I assume this is just a standard letter / stalling tactic? I assume that as 7 days will pass today, that they have failed in their obligations and I can complete an N244 form? If you completed an N244 is there then no need to file a defence?

 

Any advice on the way forward is appreciated - many thanks!

[marylikes]

Hi Dis, i'll let someone else advise you over the matter of timing between a N244 form and filing a defence. As far as i know you can contact the sols/claimant (or whoever is mentioned as dealing with it on your claim form) and ask them for an agreement to delay filing your defence until they have complied. You would need to get this agreed in writing preferably, and how you actually go about deffering it in practice even with the agreement i'm unsure of the correct steps to take. One of the more knowledgeable members will probably advise here.

[marylikes]

Hi again, i just wanted to add some more even though i'm inexperienced in all the protocols etc.. Be aware that if you get no response, or some sort of negative response you'll need to make your mind up what to do next. Read my thread for how the CPR request panned out for me and look at the advice i was given and the options i took.

As was explained to me, making an order they may oppose might not be a great idea. That doesn't mean all is lost yet. You can still do a CPR 18 request, even if they havn't answered. Think hard on what them questions are likely to be.

Oh, another thing is that a lot of credit card agreements (such as yours) prior to 2007 have been found to be unenforcable. Do some googling on this subject..credit card agreements prior to 2007. That may lead you to your next move.

[Guest]

if you want an extension to your defence deadline, and also giving them more time (they should've asked for more time as per your letter! did they?), could give them a call and get them to agree in writing to a specific defence extension date (up to 28 days from original date, (and for them to furnish re cpr request x days before that giving you time to consider what they send). then send copy of any such written agreement to the court referencing CPR 15.5 saying have agreed a def extension accordingly to ...date.

[angel_1]

hiya dis im in the same boat and poss same time of their claims sent out, im subbed to your thread so hope we can help each other out with what is advised to us on our threads, will let you have my thread if you wish to view later, have a good day keep positive tara for now angel x

[Dis1971]

Thanks for all the responses and help.

I submitted last week my acknowledgement to the court and should have a further 14 days to file a defence (upto 27th) - I will call them today to make sure this is the case.

Having read all the related N244 threads, it seems this may not be my most suitable way forward. I will send a letter to their solicitors tomorrow, telling them that they have failed in my CPR request and also requesting a 28 day extension to submit my defence and tell them I would need to see the documents requested under CPR 14 days prior to submitting my defence.

 

I suppose they may not reply or be able to supply the documents in time - do I then just submit a basic defence, outlining that I have sent a CPR request and they have failed to supply the documents?

 

The more cases I read on here, the more I am amazed that these people issue CC claims with absolutely no documentation to back it up to start with - this should surely be a legal requirement for them to start, you would think?!

 

I have read a lot about some pre-2007 debts of this type being unenforceable - but much of the information is not clear. I take it that Capquest will at best only be able to produce a re-constituted agreement? How do I know if it is enforceable or not? If these debts are unenforceable, does this mean they can get a CCJ, but cannot act on it? If the debt is unenforceable, why do these people throw money at sending a claim, if ultimately they cannot collect?

 

Apologies for all the questions (again) - just trying to get everything clear in my head!

[Guest]

re certain matters prior to 4/07, they would need to show compliance with the then s127(3).... con credit act before being entitled to an enforcement order (ccj). the Wilson case and subsequent address that. note the Carey case in cf.

 

ps, yes, if they dont respond to your reasonable request, then mention it.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Ford

[Dis1971]

Just following - I sent a letter to Optima legal and told them that they had failed with my CPR request and asked for an extension - their reply was that they were still waiting to hear from their client (Capquest), but would give me 14 days to file a defence after sending me the documents requested.

 

However, I suspect this is just another tactic to stall - my extension with the CCBC to provide a defence runs out in 3 days - so I assume I will need to send my defence tomorrow (in plenty of time). As such - I have absolutely no clue where to start:

 

- do I just say that it is an interim defence and mention that I have requested documents under CPR, but they have failed to provide - e.g. without any documents to review, I cannot submit a full defence?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I assume that once a defence is entered, then the ball is back in their court?

 

If after a period of time, they do provide documents, I assume there is not 2nd defence entered?

[Guest]

their letter seems a bit ambiguous (maybe on purpose?), '14 days after they send the docs'! but when are they going to send the docs? defence extension under court rules 15.5 says up to 28 days from original deadline. if a defence is not submitted in time (as per original deadline, or an agreed extended date up to 28 days), then technically wouldn't they have the option to apply for default judgment?

 

bumping for you for further input

Edited November 24, 2013 by Ford

[marylikes]

their letter seems a bit ambiguous (maybe on purpose?), '14 days after they send the docs'! but when are they going to send the docs? defence extension under court rules 15.5 says up to 28 days from original deadline. if a defence is not submitted in time (as per original deadline, or an agreed extended date up to 28 days), then technically wouldn't they have the option to apply for default judgment?

 

bumping for you for further input

 

I wouldn't think applying for a default judgement after agreeing to an extension and not complying would be an option?

Could the OP not make an application to stay the claim pending the previous request for time to produce docs?

I'm guessing really, but if the claim is stayed pending such application wouldn't that put everything on hold until the Claimant decides or makes his next move?

[Guest]

yes, it would be an option as they haven't technically agreed to an extension as per cpr 15.5

yes, seems could apply, at cost (unless fee remission), for a defence extension (if outside of 15.5) under the courts general management powers, therefore would allow them more time to comply with 31.14 request. point is, would need to get a formal defence extension either way, otherwise the current deadline subsists.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Ford

[Dis1971]

Thanks for the help.

They did not put anything in their letter about agreeing to extension as such - just implied by saying they will give me 14 days after they send me the docs.

However, I am wary that if I do not put a defence in to the court (the deadline is wednesday), then they could still try and go for a default judgement.

As time is short, I want to file a defence so I do not leave myself open - can anyone suggest the likely content of such a defence? Should I keep it simple - e.g. they have failed to supply the docs requested as per their obligations, so I can only enter an interim defence and will need more time to prepare a correct defence after receipt? Just looking for the correct wording, as I am not too good at the technical / legal jargon.

If I enter a defence, I assume the ball is firmly back in their court - what would / could they do next?

Thanks again.

[marylikes]

Your claim date is 25th Oct , so you're alright for a few days. What i would do is ring them up (claimant)and ask whats happening with the docs you asked for. If there's no sign of them appearing just yet then i'd file a letter off to the court asking for a 28 day extension for submitting a defence as agreed by claimant. And send the court a copy of the claimants letter. As said above, its an ambigous letter, but whats not ambiguous is the fact they are agreeing an extension.

I'd follow that up with a letter again to the claimant confirming the defence extension, and then lay out in no uncertain terms that if the documents are not forthcoming in time then i will file for a strike out of the claim for non compliance. Thats what i'd do. I'm no expert, just in the same boat as you.

[AndyOrch]

Firstly you cant stay a claim in between the AoS and the defence...you can make application to strike it out but not on the grounds referred to above.

 

You can only extend the defence date by agreement and conformation of the claimant.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Dis1971]

Thanks again for the advise.

As mentioned, Optima agreed to give me 14 days to file a defence, after they produce the document. They have not specified that they agree to an extension, but as they have yet to supply any documents, it is implied.

I am sending a letter to the CCBC (enclosing a copy of Optima's) letter and asking for a 28 day extension. Is 28 days the maximum extension you can agree to / apply for? (just a question, as this puts the last defence day @ 25th Dec.!).

 

I am also sending a letter to Optima highlighting the fact the extension is only implied and that I have taken it that they have agreed and extension and informed the Court as such. Also highlighted their obligation to supply these documents, as so far they have failed under their CPR obligations.

 

As mentioned, after reading about all thing N244 related, I think I will just go down the defence route. I am still inclined to think that even with an extension, they will still fail to come up with any documents in time, so would still appreciate any advise from anyone on filing the defence next month (on the assumption that no documents will be forthcoming).

 

Thank again.

[AndyOrch]

I fully agree pointless requesting an extension...why prolong it and they still wont comply with your CPR request.Just submit on time...job done.

[Dis1971]

Thanks. Do you have any advice on what to put in the defence (I am hopeless at legal jargon and putting down anything elequent), based on the fact that I will not have any documents to look over?

 

Once the defence is filed - what is the following procedure? I assume I would do nothing, and the ball would be in their court? Thanks again.

[AndyOrch]

A defence is not based on what documents you have asked for or what they have not disclosed.Your defence is the dispute as to why you think you dont owe or agree with the claim....does not require legalese.