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SD for school fees from redwoods - help? - ** RESOLVED **


mr1967
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Don't deal with Redwoods... Deal with the school!

 

Good advice here, see if they'll accept instalments. For the record if you're looking to offer a voluntary charge it's the school you need to be dealing with - not the mortgage firm.

 

Remember although this isn't a credit debt, Redwoods are still regulated heavily and if £150 a month with review after 3 months isn't good enough then the judge will lean to yoir side...

 

Poor, subjective advice. The judge needs to consider the circumstances of both parties. £150 a month would take nearly 14 years to clear the debt, they may feel that, given the circumstances, this is too long. The courts need to take a balanced view - though they should only make a bankruptcy order if there is no reasonable, viable alternative.

 

See s271 of the Insolvency Act 1986:

 

271 Proceedings on creditor’s petition..

 

(1)The court shall not make a bankruptcy order on a creditor’s petition unless it is satisfied that the debt, or one of the debts, in respect of which the petition was presented is either— .

(a)a debt which, having been payable at the date of the petition or having since become payable, has been neither paid nor secured or compounded for, or .

(b)a debt which the debtor has no reasonable prospect of being able to pay when it falls due. .

(2)In a case in which the petition contains such a statement as is required by section 270, the court shall not make a bankruptcy order until at least 3 weeks have elapsed since the service of any statutory demand under section 268. .

(3)The court may dismiss the petition if it is satisfied that the debtor is able to pay all his debts or is satisfied— .

(a)that the debtor has made an offer to secure or compound for a debt in respect of which the petition is presented, .

(b)that the acceptance of that offer would have required the dismissal of the petition, and .

©that the offer has been unreasonably refused; .

and, in determining for the purposes of this subsection whether the debtor is able to pay all his debts, the court shall take into account his contingent and prospective liabilities.

(4)In determining for the purposes of this section what constitutes a reasonable prospect that a debtor will be able to pay a debt when it falls due, it is to be assumed that the prospect given by the facts and other matters known to the creditor at the time he entered into the transaction resulting in the debt was a reasonable prospect. .

(5)Nothing in sections 267 to 271 prejudices the power of the court, in accordance with the rules, to authorise a creditor’s petition to be amended by the omission of any creditor or debt and to be proceeded with as if things done for the purposes of those sections had been done only by or in relation to the remaining creditors or debts.

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Good advice here, see if they'll accept instalments. For the record if you're looking to offer a voluntary charge it's the school you need to be dealing with - not the mortgage firm.

 

 

 

Poor, subjective advice. The judge needs to consider the circumstances of both parties. £150 a month would take nearly 14 years to clear the debt, they may feel that, given the circumstances, this is too long. The courts need to take a balanced view - though they should only make a bankruptcy order if there is no reasonable, viable alternative.

 

See s271 of the Insolvency Act 1986:

 

271 Proceedings on creditor’s petition..

 

(1)The court shall not make a bankruptcy order on a creditor’s petition unless it is satisfied that the debt, or one of the debts, in respect of which the petition was presented is either— .

(a)a debt which, having been payable at the date of the petition or having since become payable, has been neither paid nor secured or compounded for, or .

(b)a debt which the debtor has no reasonable prospect of being able to pay when it falls due. .

(2)In a case in which the petition contains such a statement as is required by section 270, the court shall not make a bankruptcy order until at least 3 weeks have elapsed since the service of any statutory demand under section 268. .

(3)The court may dismiss the petition if it is satisfied that the debtor is able to pay all his debts or is satisfied— .

(a)that the debtor has made an offer to secure or compound for a debt in respect of which the petition is presented, .

(b)that the acceptance of that offer would have required the dismissal of the petition, and .

©that the offer has been unreasonably refused; .

and, in determining for the purposes of this subsection whether the debtor is able to pay all his debts, the court shall take into account his contingent and prospective liabilities.

(4)In determining for the purposes of this section what constitutes a reasonable prospect that a debtor will be able to pay a debt when it falls due, it is to be assumed that the prospect given by the facts and other matters known to the creditor at the time he entered into the transaction resulting in the debt was a reasonable prospect. .

(5)Nothing in sections 267 to 271 prejudices the power of the court, in accordance with the rules, to authorise a creditor’s petition to be amended by the omission of any creditor or debt and to be proceeded with as if things done for the purposes of those sections had been done only by or in relation to the remaining creditors or debts.

 

Hi Sequenci

 

I meant from the fact of the "Open to review" :)

If it was £150 permanently then i think its unreasonable. But thanks for correcting me, it always good to learn from mistakes :)

 

But also im right in thinking they would still be regulated right? By the OFT or by another party?

 

We could do with some help from you.

 

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Receptaculum Ignis

 

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Good advice here, see if they'll accept instalments. For the record if you're looking to offer a voluntary charge it's the school you need to be dealing with - not the mortgage firm.

 

I thought a voluntary charge had to be agreed by the mortgage lender and could only be entered into only if the lender was happy with it?

 

Poor, subjective advice. The judge needs to consider the circumstances of both parties. £150 a month would take nearly 14 years to clear the debt, they may feel that, given the circumstances, this is too long. The courts need to take a balanced view - though they should only make a bankruptcy order if there is no reasonable, viable alternative.

 

See s271 of the Insolvency Act 1986:

 

271 Proceedings on creditor’s petition..

 

(1)The court shall not make a bankruptcy order on a creditor’s petition unless it is satisfied that the debt, or one of the debts, in respect of which the petition was presented is either— .

(a)a debt which, having been payable at the date of the petition or having since become payable, has been neither paid nor secured or compounded for, or .

(b)a debt which the debtor has no reasonable prospect of being able to pay when it falls due. .

(2)In a case in which the petition contains such a statement as is required by section 270, the court shall not make a bankruptcy order until at least 3 weeks have elapsed since the service of any statutory demand under section 268. .

(3)The court may dismiss the petition if it is satisfied that the debtor is able to pay all his debts or is satisfied— .

(a)that the debtor has made an offer to secure or compound for a debt in respect of which the petition is presented, .

(b)that the acceptance of that offer would have required the dismissal of the petition, and .

©that the offer has been unreasonably refused; .

and, in determining for the purposes of this subsection whether the debtor is able to pay all his debts, the court shall take into account his contingent and prospective liabilities.

(4)In determining for the purposes of this section what constitutes a reasonable prospect that a debtor will be able to pay a debt when it falls due, it is to be assumed that the prospect given by the facts and other matters known to the creditor at the time he entered into the transaction resulting in the debt was a reasonable prospect. .

(5)Nothing in sections 267 to 271 prejudices the power of the court, in accordance with the rules, to authorise a creditor’s petition to be amended by the omission of any creditor or debt and to be proceeded with as if things done for the purposes of those sections had been done only by or in relation to the remaining creditors or debts.

 

 

I thought a voluntary charge had to be agreed by the mortgage lender and could only be entered into only if the lender was happy with it?

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I thought a voluntary charge had to be agreed by the mortgage lender and could only be entered into only if the lender was happy with it?

 

The lender will have th first charge so when the house is sold they are guaranteed their money before any furtehr charges. I'm not certain they would be overly concerned - especially when you consider the alternative.

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Hi Sequenci

 

I meant from the fact of the "Open to review" :)

If it was £150 permanently then i think its unreasonable. But thanks for correcting me, it always good to learn from mistakes :)

 

But also im right in thinking they would still be regulated right? By the OFT or by another party?

 

Not necessarily, school fees could well be in the form of an unregulated arrangement. Of course the DCA could still be OFT licensed.

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Could the lender refuse a second charge if they didn't feel there was enough equity in the property?

 

They have an interest in the property as they hold the first charge. I guess they could in theory, although it would need litigation - and I doubt they would bother in all honesty.

 

For the record, you should only consider a voluntary charge as a last resort - do try other avenues first.

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so the first thing is to try to arrange a payment plan? I assume they will want me to pay more than I can realistically afford but I suppose it is this or bankruptcy! Is it likely they will want the voluntary charge to secure the payments?

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so the first thing is to try to arrange a payment plan? I assume they will want me to pay more than I can realistically afford but I suppose it is this or bankruptcy! Is it likely they will want the voluntary charge to secure the payments?

 

Potentially. They may expect both.

 

You should ensure that you complete a decent financial statement to ascrtain what you can offer, you can do one here:

 

http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/personal-budget-sheet/income.php

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Income expenditure would be quite tricky because my income varies (hence the reason for this mess). I have family who would make initial payments until my income was sufficient to do so. In effect payments could be made (subject to the amount) but if an inc/exp is needed, the figures may not add up.

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Yes - I have been involved in social media for 3 years but have just been offered a job to return to FS as a mortgage broker (still self-employed) in 2 weeks. Ironically I will now have to disclose this SD which may jeopardise my new job..

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Sequenci

 

Does the NDL sheet give trigger figures or not , or are they not as important as I have been led to believe?

 

I know they are supposed to be secret but the NEDCAB one does give some guidelines

 

Just trying to help here as I know how hard it is to work out an accurate I&E

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Hi there.

 

They are kinda secret but often the advice agencies would allude to what they should be - or thereabouts. Both NDL and the CAB use the 'Common Financial Statement' trigger figures. You won't find them on the website although both NDL's self-help pack 'Dealing with your debts' and their mymoneysteps system has figures listed.

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Thanks good to know. Frankly I wish I had that much money lol

 

The figures are actually quite generous for sure. One of the reasons why they are not generally public is that if they were people would simply submit the maximums and milk it a little!

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That's something I more recently found out. When my debts first started I was given some appalling bad advice about how to deal with them. Not by NDL or any of the voluntary charities or even a web site but by someone who should have known better.

 

I would actually love to do something in the debt advice world but I doubt I would ever be able to get a job in a position of trust

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Well officially I live near leicester but OH lives in Brum.

 

Stepchange, would that make me a hypocrite?

 

Thank you for the info

Edited by fletch70

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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Well. I've got legal advice and sent over SD paperwork for them to assess IF they can help or not.

 

 

Redwoods are telling me the school will probably accept £2,000 per month, but this is way over the odds.

 

 

Just hoping there is a legal angle or negotiation to put us onto a manageable payment plan and stop all bankruptcy proceedings dead.

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Just spoke to a solicitor who specialises in getting statutory demands set aside.

 

Although he sees no legal basis to get it set aside, he offered to send a letter to Redwoods with a payment proposal

and to point out to them in strong terms that they would only get pence in the £ if they did proceed with bankruptcy.

 

He seems to think £300-£500 is a reasonable proposal and said that when he was on the other side of the fence, working for private schools,

they nearly always accepted £500 per month for a debt of this size.

 

He also said not to offer a voluntary charge at this stage.

 

The down side is I don't have £550 + VAT to enlist his services.

 

Anybody got any thoughts on if this is something I can do myself?

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If I need advice I always call NDL 0808 808 400 . I have always found them to be helpful and informative and have given me the confidence to take a task on myself. There is of course here as well

Any opinion I give is from personal experience .

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I attached a letter to an email and sent it to the school on Monday (4th) with a copy to Redwoods. I have not received a response yet, but here is the text:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Proposal ofpayment

 

We are aware that we owe a substantial amount to the school and that this has accrued over a considerable period of time.

The reason for this debt is directly related to mywork situation.

 

 

As you are aware, we had a flawless payment record from 2003 -2009 but with the onset of the credit crunch,

my income as a mortgage brokerstarted to reduce at an alarming rate from 2009 onwards.

We kept the school updated during this time and the School allowed us to keep our children inattendance,

for which we are very grateful.

 

Since 2009 we have tried to get back on track with our finances through our own businesses and a variety of jobs,

but we have not been able to get to a position where we have been able to cover even basic costs

and have only been able to make token payments to the school alongthe way.

 

In an effort to show our willingness to resolve the matter,

we offered a voluntary charge on our property,

but this was declined by our mortgage lender

because of the way they measure the value of properties throughout the UK.

 

 

I hope you can see by our willingness to secure this debt on our property

that we have been serious about trying to resolve the matter and have not just ignored it.

 

We are aware that we need to come to a mutually acceptable agreement to repay the debt we owe to the school

and avoid any further legal action.

 

 

The effects of bankruptcy on our family are obvious and because of our other creditors,

it is likely that the Schoolwould only recover a small proportion of the full amount we owe if we were made bankrupt.

 

I have spoken to xxx from Redwoods and he said he would put forward our offer to you for consideration.

 

 

We have made an offer of £150 for the next 3 months with a review after 3months.

 

This offer is based on the fact that I have been offered and have accepted a new job as a mortgage broker,starting on 12th November 2013.

 

 

This is the first time in 4 years that I have been offered such a job from a company that actually has the processes

and financial backing to ensure that its employees succeed.

 

 

There are currently 18 mortgage advisers working for this company earning between £35k and £135k per year,

and having carefully considered this company and how they operate, both the director of the company

and I see no reason why my income would not bewith in this range.

 

If as I hope and expect, I would be in a position to start making substantial payments to clear this level of debt.

 

 

I would propose payments of £300 per month from months 3 to 6 with a view to reviewing this every 6 months.

 

Mrs (Headmistress) and Mrs (Bursar) have known our family for many years and know that we are genuine in our intentions.

We have not run away from this debt and are not looking to pay less than the full amount.

If bankruptcy is pursued, my research shows that this will not be in the financial interest of the school,

whereas if our proposal is accepted, the school can be repaid in full, albeit over a longer period oftime.

 

Please consider this proposal and letme know if you find it acceptable.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

Mr1967

 

I haven't received a response from the school or Redwoods yet.

 

 

Also the 21 days of the SD runs out on 15th November

- do I need to fill out any court forms

or just wait for a response

and hope and pray we can move forward with a mutually acceptable arrangement?

 

Thanks, Mr1967

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