automatically unfair - unfair dissmisal

[legalrights]

If the employee was dismissed for any of the following reasons, their dismissal was automatically unfair. Consequently, they can claim unfair dismissal regardless of the length of their service:

 

-the employee is dismissed attempting to enforce their legal right

-the employee is dismissed for acting on a health and safety issue

So your told to take your break at the end. And you have had various discussions with management about that because you’ve been feeling light headed and dizzy before the end of the duty.

 

It also states in the contract that breaks must not be taken at the end under any attendance a 30 minute break is due and it must not be taken at the end ...(health and safety)(company policy)...

 

.Although the duty itself is not normally scheduled at over 6 hours and does not total 6 hours (legal point where you are required a break in uk) it is still company policy however that break should not be taken at the end .

 

But the manager has said break will be taken at end no matter what. He has no real regard for company policy’s and demands break at end so that there is no need for him to wait back any longer.(crafty)

 

According to ACAS It's extremely important that workers take breaks. Studies have shown that heavy workloads and stress can make workers less productive, increase the risk of mistakes, and affect health. and should have their break at some point during the middle of there shift rather than adding the break to the end or beginning of work.

 

I can safely say u was stressed and feeling less productive and my health was being effected.

 

You are sent to do a job without the proper training to efficiently do the job and there had also been additional work for you to do before you leave which is not normally your job which means you have got out of the office later than expected. Although you are expected to inform managers if you will be working overtime there this would not be possible as you have not done the duty before and had no idea how long it will take so it would be an impossible argument to make with a manager

(usually if you go into overtime its not a problem there is a flexibility agreements that states that is ok ).

 

Because you have never done the job before it takes you longer and it is basically common knowledge that it will take you longer on the day.This is something the manager was not prepared to consider before or after the duty.Negligence?

 

So you are doing your job in the knowledge “break must be taken at the end” which you already know is against the contract but you don’t want to annoy your manager to much about it and just deal with feeling dizzy .mainly because you done get a lunch break and it’s a very physicall exhausting job.

 

But you have now gone into overtime which has always going to be the case under the circumstances and it is soon approaching the 6 hour mark which it your legal right to have a break.

 

You have returned to the office with the job incomplete and there is a procedure in place that as long as you indicate to a manager that the job is not been completed then it is then down to them to deal with the problem. Although they later argue I should of informed them “earlier” .But that was impossible to know as i did not know.

 

Now you decide that because the law states at 6 hours into a duty you will take your break among other reasons for having to return to the office “which must be taken at the end of your duty” therefore if you had came back with the job incomplete and they asked you to go back out with it to complete the job.Which would run well beyond 6 hours. remember break is at end so no time to stop.

There are no instructions or training with regards to what to do if u hit the 6 hour mark.

 

May i also point out that the legality of the break working 6 hours is that u must not take your break at the end also. so not sure how that will come into it.I was therefore already suffering from the symptoms of not having a break.

 

You would be working past your legal right to a break at 6 hours of work so you refuse and go home break at the end of duty remember.… And since you have informed then you have followed procedures.

 

Basically there is no “break” your just paid for the break at the end that u do not actually get. Its not like your actually on a break if you know what I mean.

 

You have basically exercised your legal rights to a break and have acted on health and safety grounds.

 

You come in the next day and are suspended, conducted and then dismissed. Not only that they also refuse to pay you the overtime you done.(which includes “break at end”)

 

Is this this automatic unfair dismissal for attempting to enforce their legal right to a break and dismissed for acting on a health and safety issue with there only argument that I should of informed them at a random time of “earlier” so they could of done something about it.

 

As soon as you know you will be later (which is impossible to judge on a job u have never done the job before) all jobs vary in size and length .

 

Would u just accept your sacked with a gross misconduct and have this on your CV for a job that u worked for over 10 years in.

 

Ps the manager has continued to say the break must be taken at the end during the dismissal when I pointed that out to them -contradicting company policy’s. But ignorant to there own policys.

 

Ps people doing new duty’s that returned with jobs incomplete did not receive any conduct .As they did not know how long it would take them to complete the job and they was only prepared to work contracted time. And not do overtime. Is this disrimination?

 

Would you bother putting in for unfair dismissal under these circumstances?

Thank you

Edited October 26, 2013 by legalrights

[Emmzzi]

We have had this discussion before with you posting under an AE.

 

Your shift is not long enough to legally require a break. You have no medical evidence that says you have a condition which requires an earlier break than the law requires.

 

As I recall you were dismissed not for anything to do with enforcing breaks, but for slow work/ not completing a job, which you then claimed was a result of not having a break.

 

With the employer you work for, this is a more serious offence than for other people and may in some cases be considered in violation of their operating licence, if extreme.

 

For clarity of other posters, you were not suspended conducted and dismissed all in one day; proper process was followed, and you have had an appeal.

 

There is no legal discrimination on grounds of treating new people differently.

 

Also knowing your employer, they have a reputation for being slow to dismiss. This suggests it was either extreme, not the first time this had happened, or a convenient excuse to get rid of a difficult employee. Your appeal will have been held by a senior manager and they usually have guidance from HR on what has happened in similar cases. They lose very few cases of this kind at ET (for their size.)

 

As you are not a union member and so do not have the support of your union, I would not go to ET unless

a) you are rich - it now costs money or

b) you can get a no win/ no fee solicitor to take on your case.

 

You may attempt to sue for breach of contract, which is different, but I would expect your winnings on that to be about sixpence and it won't get you your job back.

[legalrights]

yes im rich now what?

[legalrights]

I don't really see how this is not in some way or another me forcing my legal rights to a break and sacked for not completing a job because of that. It would of been impossible because then i would of had to of worked over 6 hours without a break,and the reason it was going to be over 6 hours was because of there actions of not training me and having additional work that caused me to work longer than normal.

 

(so what if there a big company and have some operating licence does that give them the right? its not my problem i followed procedues the best i could with regards to telling them the job was incomplete , i am under no obligation to work overtime just to finish a job)

 

You cant get round the fact that they forced a break at the end while also expecting me to work until the job was done therefore would of gone over the time of 6 hours and i would not of had a break until the job was done .

 

Also this has some something to do with Working Time Regulations

 

A worker has the right not to be subjected to a detriment in their work if they refuse to work in breach of the regulations, refuse to give up a right under the regulations or bring a claim asserting that the employer is in breach of the Regulations. An employee who is dismissed for asserting their rights in this way or bringing a claim is regarded as unfairly dismissed

Edited October 26, 2013 by legalrights

[legalrights]

Anyway i do note that you suggest i go ahead with the unfair dismissal which i am considering now

 

but what makes you think i am not capable of representing myself?

Edited October 26, 2013 by legalrights

[Emmzzi]

I'm not suggesting you go ahead with anything. I haven't seen a strong enough case to suggest that.

[Sidewinder]

I'm lost

[legalrights]

well if i was to apply with this argument with an ET1 then the judge would decide if its enough or not wouldnt he/she?

[san_d]

For sanity's sake this thread should be nuked.

[legalrights]

haha why san d?

[legalrights]

The judge will decide if it merits an ET i would of thought so if emmzzi is right it will get turned down i guess . BUt if it gets accepted then i guess its going to be an automatic unfair dismissal

Edited October 27, 2013 by legalrights

[san_d]

haha why san d?

Exactly!

[legalrights]

sorry mate but your comments aint helping

[Sidewinder]

Your concept of the role of an ET is way wide of the mark. A case will be accepted providing the ET1 is filled in and filed within the prescribed deadline. Acceptance does not mean that you have a case.

 

A judge will only see the facts of the case if it gets to s full merits hearing or if the other side asks for a PHR. If your case is misconceived (and I see nothing which suggests that you have the law on your side) then you risk a costs award

[legalrights]

Then i guess the will call a PHR if they think so

Edited October 27, 2013 by legalrights

[Emmzzi]

I have done my best but you are not listening at all.

 

As you have presented it, you have no case at all. As you are not prepared to go into detail, none of us will be able to make an assessment of your chance.

 

I will not be commenting on your posts again.

[legalrights]

I have done my best but you are not listening at all.

 

As you have presented it, you have no case at all. As you are not prepared to go into detail, none of us will be able to make an assessment of your chance.

 

I will not be commenting on your posts again.

 

how would u present it ? from the info i have provided u know to the best of your ability , show me what u got

Edited October 27, 2013 by legalrights

[BazzaS]

I have done my best but you are not listening at all.

 

As you have presented it, you have no case at all. As you are not prepared to go into detail, none of us will be able to make an assessment of your chance.

 

I will not be commenting on your posts again.

 

how would u present it ? from the info i have provided u know to the best of your ability , show me what u got

 

Emmzzi suggests you aren't listening to them ; this certainly seems to be the case as Emmzzi said they were through contributing, and you then ask them to present your case for you!

Perhaps Emmzzi got fed up of asking for details that weren't forthcoming, and (not being psychic!) did the best they could on the information they had, before getting fed up with your attitude.

 

They've already told you they don't feel you have a leg to stand on based on what little information you have provided. If you disagree : post the extra info and someone else MIGHT help (though they might not, based on your posts so far!)

 

You say you are rich:

yes im rich now what?

So, if you don't like the free advice here, go seek advice from an employment law solicitor and you can pay them.

 

Or at least give the appearance you have started taking note of people's' contributions!

Edited October 27, 2013 by BazzaS

[legalrights]

i dont know what more detail i can bloody give christ

[BazzaS]

i dont know what more detail i can bloody give christ

 

Short replies make me think "troll", aiming for maximum result from little effort.

 

If you aren't trolling : I feel your style of reply doesn't do you any favours to encourage replies.

 

We have had this discussion before with you posting under an AE.

 

For clarity of other posters, you were not suspended conducted and dismissed all in one day; proper process was followed, and you have had an appeal.

 

'Legalrights' : please provide the link to the other thread.

Edited October 27, 2013 by BazzaS

[silverfox1961]

i dont know what more detail i can bloody give christ

 

Firstly, wind your neck in! From your posts you are expecting peeps to be in agreement with you. You are getting stressed because people are not agreeing with you and trying to tell you why.

 

I would suggest you go to other forums and ask the same questions. I can see you getting the same answers.

 

People on CAG offer their time freely and do not deserve to be slated like this

[legalrights]

and the point i was making was which seems logical .. is that if there is doubt the case has any oomph then the judge or there solicitor would call it to a PHR

 

i would think this is logical? that they do that instead of knowing and then going to a full hearing?

[BazzaS]

I can't comment further without seeing the previous thread.

I can't guarantee anyone will comment even once the previous thread has been cited.

[legalrights]

read my OP! its automatic unfair dismissal u are legally entitled to a break and i take your break in this job its at the end . i dont need to work more and i informed them of that .

[BazzaS]

read my OP! its automatic unfair dismissal u are legally entitled to a break and i take your break in this job its at the end . i dont need to work more and i informed them of that .

 

Seems you have decided you have your answer then.

So : if you feel you have a strong enough case, why are you posting?.

It appears you aren't posting for advice (since you argue with anyone offering it), merely validation, and when the validation isn't forthcoming you 'snap back'

 

Good luck, you'll likely need it. Don't forget to put aside a tidy sum for costs.

 

Like Emmzzi, "I'm out ".