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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Moneybarn - 2 months behind - Repo man showed up


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Let them visit. Keep the car hidden and theres bugger all they can do.

 

Sit tight as its still early and the regulars will be around later to advise on next step to take.

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Its ok. Just make sure that car is hidden and a good distance away from tour home. I wouldnt put it past this company to comb the local streets

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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I need to pull as string here and ask someone to pop in.

 

as far as 'I' can see..there are numerous things wrong here.

 

certainly there are many things wrong with the DN that renders it invalid on many front.

 

so thus the termination was invalid.

 

so thus, its still running [as it was unlawfully terminated on the back of an invalid DN]

 

now, I think that prob marries up with the fact that MB are still accepting payments

and sort of mentioned somewhere that its still running even after they terminated it

[with me its sunday..and i'm in slow gear]

 

now looking at wrights history and what they do

they seem pretty clued up on things.

and the doc sent says 'if the repo guy wants to take the car'

[find that weird too]

I would suspect that if things got silly

and you showed them the paperwork

[esp the DN that THEY MUST HAVE to repo anyhow]

 

they will agree that's its invalid on sev counts

but the glaring one is the fees! they are unlawful.

 

 

if they weren't there, they'd be little or no debt

and don't forget the £200 for the old repo fee too!

 

I cant exactly nail down IF they can take the car

I don't think they can.

 

and i'm not happy that you appear to have entered and signed an HP agreement with creditplus

but

moneybarn have got you to sign a conditional sale agreement under the CCA.

 

what if any additional rights for/against repo this gives them/you

is diff to unravel.

 

my GUT feeling is they cant

and you need to iron out this HP/conditional sale issue.

 

with whom again I don't exactly know

 

IMHO I would talk to this guys if they did turn up again.

 

they don't know where the car is

so they cant really do anything if they become intransient with wanting to take it .

 

just my

 

musings.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for the reply -

 

My feeling is that I keep the car away from the house for a few days at least until the end of the month and

 

then pay what they 'say' is owing

- however I am reluctant to pay what I really shouldn't but feel as though I may be backed into a corner here.

 

If the repo guys turn up again today I will speak to them if I have to

- but what am I actually telling them ?

 

Your paperwork - the DN is invalid so the termination is invalid

 

- I wonder how much of the Law these guys actually know anyway

- looked a bit intimidating and probably would just try to bully me.

 

I feel I will need to put an email together today to send to MB

and tell them when/what I will be paying

 

- do you think that would be the correct thing to do

and should I also then bring up the potential flaws in procedure

or do we think that will just cause even more issue for me as they really do get quite nasty?

 

Thanks again everyone

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I wouldn't go telling the repo guys 'their' paperwork is faulty.

 

if this were ME, and i'm sure they are not a cowboy lot BTW

they work [or claim too] with lots of GOV't agencies

so I don't think they are cowboy stuff like those on the telly.

 

you've got the DN

print it out and have it handy

 

simply pointout to them

that the default notice is invalid

for at least the points regarding including penalty charges in the sum demanded

[which the ICO clearly state it must NOT include]

 

and if these any the previous £200 were to be taken into account and removed

you don't actually owe that must

and the matter is being resolved with MB Monday.

 

if they seem ok, It would also not hurt you to broach the fact that

with the DN being invalid, that thus makes the termination notice invalid.

 

I expect these guys will agree and p'haps give you pointers.

 

if they are not 'nice' and not helpful

say thank you to them but please leave

I will deal with this monday

l

then simply walk away from them and close the door

 

your are not DUTY BOUND to discuss anything with them.

 

however as I say, I suspect they might be friend rather them foe here

 

CP & MB have messed up

 

that's the bottom line.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Did you receive the pre contract information as required by The Consumer Credit (Disclosure of Information) Regulations 2010? I cannot see any ref to it in your docs- without this the agreement is unenforceable without a court order

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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could have been received via either

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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ah a safe pair of hands has arrived

 

if you've still got the original emails

and the attached docs

if you want I can arrange everything to be fwded to me via an email?

and i'll redact them and post everything you have up.

save you having to do it all WW

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I have from MB - Helping to explain your proposed finance agreement - but that came at the same time as the docs for signing.

 

I have from Credit Plus

 

Key facts

Treating Custs fairly

Vehicle Sourcing service Agreement

SECCI

Cust Needs - GAP/RTI Insurance

Cust Needs - Income Protection

 

Is this what you are referring to?

 

Can't find anything else - all was done via email.

 

Thanks

 

WW

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no, you should have been provided with pre contract information for you to consider "in good time" before signing any agreement. The Consumer Credit (Agreement) Regulations 2010- Schedule 1, Regulation 8 lays down the information required. As said without this important document if they did not provide it, the agreement is unenforceable without a court order

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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on you credit plus doc dated 13.11.12, you have signed to say you have received the lenders pre contract document- were you just told sign here or did you receive this?

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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Hi,

 

I have been back through all my emails - lots of comings and goings between me and a guy at Credit plus when he was sending me cars over to consider.

 

The 1st email I have with any documents attached was 12.11.12 and I printed, scanned and returned via email on 13.11.12. I assumed that the email of the 12.11.12 which included 9 pages of CP docs and 5 of MB was all the info so I would have signed saying yes I received those on 12th.

 

Few emails after that re DVLA mandate etc as I couldn't find my DL

 

Nothing from Moneybarn themselves until an email saying welcome dated 20.11.12 which came via email and by post.

 

I have searched emails as this was the only method of communication apart from a phone call here and there from CP Rep.

 

Hope this helps.

 

thanks

 

WW

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It would be really helpful if we could see all the docs you received on 12.11.12 with all pers details removed. Where did you sign your actual agreement with MB?

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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he signed it at home after the doc were sent in an email

 

they were printed out

signed

and then scanned and sent back,

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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WW do you want me to fwd you an email so you can fwd any/all email concerning this to me

 

I will then redact them and post them up?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

just got my head into gear again, so the 5 from MB are looking like the actual agreement that you signed 13.11.12 that you have already posted up, so its looking like you never received any pre contract docs, unless of course among the 9 CP docs was a sample HP Agreement, oh dear

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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Hi dx100uk - yes that's fine - if you would like to email me and if you require any other docs I am happy to send to you

 

theoldrouge - the 9 pages from Credit Plus were

 

Hire Purchase Loan details & Payments

Customers Needs - Income Protection Insurance

Insurance Policy Declaration

Customer needs - GAP/RTI insurance

SECCI

Vehicle Sourcing Agreement

Key facts - about our insurance services

Treating customers fairly

and the first page which was Customer Document pack

 

I had to sign all those that required a signature and initial all others and scan and email back to CP

 

I have seen on the Hire Purchase Loan Details & Payments where it states 'The Lenders Pre-Contract document', however the 9 pages from CP were emailed at the same time as the MB paperwork which I assumed this related to.

 

I was asked to sign all docs which were marked with a X and initial all other pages - I did this and emailed back on 13.11.12

 

Documents received on 12 Nov were the 1st I had received from either CP or MB.

 

When I called to the Car showroom to collect the car it was closing time - I had travelled up by train and the garage sent a driver to pick me up at the station to make it quicker - I signed for the car - was handed a receipt for my payment (paid £220 on site having paid £200 over the phone to secure the car) also given part of the log book for me to send off and I was sent on my way

 

Hope this helps - any more info required please ask - need to get this resolved

 

Thanks you all - this has been so helpful

 

WW

 

hope this helps.

 

Any idea where I go from here - obviously I am going to have to approach MB tomorrow to try to stop the Repo men knocking on my door again - I don't want to however say/write something that isn't correct because I have misunderstood or which may get me into further trouble.

 

many thanks

 

WW

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if OR requests to see any of the listed docs then I will.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

if OR requests to see any of the listed docs then I will.

 

dx

Yes please dx, all the docs from credit plus, plus the one from MB saying-helping to explain your proposed finance agreement.WW just hold fire on that email till weve seen these docs

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

 

 

Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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ok pm sent to WW with an email ad that's safe.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Do you normally keep the car on your driveway? If so they cannot repossess from private land without a court order whether you have paid one third or not (and that means a court bailiff with the order in his hand).

 

If you park it on a public street they may well tow it away. Where are you keeping it?

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My advice is based on my opinion and experience only. It is not to be taken as legal advice - if you are unsure you should seek professional help.

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